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You know ... one of the things you need to come to grips with in the midst of all this technology and "cool" keyboards, etc ... is this ...

Are you in this to learn to play the piano really well ?

OR ...

Are you more interested in playing with all sorts of "cool" sounding equipment and always on the lookout for the next inovation ?

There is absolutely no end to the technology.

But, if you wish to learn to play well ... you have all you need right now.

I am interested in both - as quiet typical in this forum: piano art (just music) and technology.

In digital you cannot make serious mistakes, you can always updgrade. We don't acquire digital gear for life - our purchases should be considered more as renting decision's for a limited time span (typically 3-5 Ys.) Amortisation has to be calculated with, both financially and technologically.

You are better off with the second highest range but up-to-date product than have the best but wait three or more update cycle with an update.

On the other side, while not having the latest thing might be not optimal, we have a development behind us where current tools (keybeds) have already accumaleted a plenty of engeneering quality .Progress with the next generation is evolutionary and often improving marginal nuances only.

Temp: You're right about the slow progress ... evolutionary, etc. But as for treating a piano as a temp or as a rental, you speak for yourself.

From whence comes your 3 to 5 year estimate? Perhaps that's your pattern, and so be it. But how can you conclude that this is somehow typical? I bought a piano four years ago, and, if it lasts, I'll keep it for another fifteen or twenty years.

Please let this have at least a mod wheel, please please please, without one how do you do all the neat things with LASS or East West, Symphobia, Adagio or any of the other orchestral libraries that a buyer of this type of controller will use along with pianos. Im paranoid because it really doesn't look like there is room for one in the picture, if however there is one then Im probably standing in line already, unless Roland really wows us with a complete supernatural workstation, but even then I think I'd rather have less cost since a Roland workstation would probably set me back 4 grand.

origen, I think you may be disappointed...

However, there are plenty of relatively inexpensive MIDI control surfaces to add knobs, buttons, and wheels out there - take you pick!

As for a SuperNatural workstation, I believe Dr Popper recently eluded to a new Fantom, so it's possible...

James
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Which, also, is probably not typical.

Also, the availability of VSTs now enables one to make changes periodically to the sound without swapping out the keybed/piano. That is ... if you find VST sounds satisfying. I have not been able to get to that point.

If this keybed is really really good and it has some way of smart interfacing with your software solution(s) - be it laptop and/or tablet - there's no more need to buy a new set of keys every few years, just because the sounds get boring. Update your SW and off you go for another round of years. The keys can then stay and last for a loooooong time....(additional controllers you can add and replace when needed). Just my idea..

It is a GREAT idea !

However, in my case, I have not been able to embrace the sound I hear using the software generated sounds. I may sound a little muffled, distant, latent, or some other perceived flaw.

So, the theory is great. But, my reality ... not so much.

I think that's largely the point!

Is there anything like a stand alone x/y joystick or modwheel that can just midi or usb into the controller for the purpose of articulations? Ive got a novation remote zero 61 key, but I'd rather not have to reach too far, so if I can sit something right on the vpc that would be a great solution, or would an expression pedal be able to simulate the articulations, as well as having a sustain pedal plugged in at the same time?

Hi, Mac,
I am speaking for myself, of course. I was ringing steadly with the idea of loosing something due to bad buying decisions, having the steady pain of having to find on optimal long time ackqusisition. Especially because I was grown up in older traditionalist family in relatively hard economical decades in a country of Europe's soviet-occupied former eastern block - Hungary, where the posession of old goods was dire and material things highly esteemed. And now we all are living in "disposable" societies. Digital technology especially is constructed with disposable bricks.

I found quiet comforting the idea to think of my tools and other possessions as rental objects rather than ethernal or at least life-long possessions, something to be inheritable - because otherwise facing loss of value was a steady pain.

The 3-5 ys. replacement cycle is just my pace derived from this everyday phylosophy. I sold my 5 ys. of CA51 for half of it's original price (actually partially paid for my newly built clavichord with it) - not because it was not functioning for me. I could use it for another 3-5 ys, but I weighted up the higher risk of an older over-used instrument without any warranty to get broken down, and that it's state is now a good value for somebody, but in another 3 ys. I cannot recommend it at all against a cheap state-of-theart instrument anymore. And yes, I weighted up my need for some benefits of an up-to-date action - Kawai's recent 3 sensor actions are 2 generation over my AWA GrandProII - James said somewhere about an 8 ys. old such keybed that it might be ripe for regulating...

This sort of viewing things is just my relationship to the gears of my work and hobbies, and helped me personally a lot to see things more relaxed. I am free to update a keyboard e.g., if I
need an improvement - cost is not a scandal but a calculated factor.

It may be all very trivial, but one collegue of mine is irritated by this viewing of things, he thinks in a "my house is my castle" way - it is just his way.

If you like the Novation, you can always try the Novation Remote Zero SL, which is just the MIDI controls with no keyboard attached. I have the original version sitting on my Korg SP-250 and it's really excellent. They now sell the Mk II, which is slightly different.

Yes, I believe we are actually on the same page here.

My point with that little „note“ was not about wanting to stay up to date all the time, but to get all the features I need in the least expensive, most convenient package.

I recently bought my CA95 mainly because of its great GF action. Then, despite its vast tweaking abilities I soon found myself enjoying it more with VSTs and headphones, which means that I’m currently not using a big part of its feature set like the internal sound engine and soundboard system.

Assuming that the new Kawai VPC will feature the GF action, had I waited a bit I could soon have gotten this one instead of the CA95, with the exact same result (sound and action) for less money.

Though I do admit the CA95 looks very beautiful, which certainly contributes its part to the whole piano playing experience.

FWIW, I owned my previous Yamaha CLP 170 for more than 7 years before I sold it to a friend, who continues to enjoy it immensely.
My desire to upgrade to the Kawai actually only arised because last year I started to rent a practice room with a Blüthner grand. The gap between that one and the CLP was too big for frequent readjustment.

Now, it's not like the VPC announcement would cost me any sleep. I could afford the CA95 and I'm really happy with the action, so I'm bound to enjoy it for a very long time. As said before, if the desire to update arises it's now a question of updating the VST side rather than replacing the whole piano to get better sound, which is comparatively cheap and convenient.

+1,

I don't have to buy things, which I don't use (internal sounds, amp, boxes, menu, lcd), and which are amortising quicker than the phyisical parts such as keybed.

I considered to buy a slightly better instrument just to make a better investment value return by calculating better demand and retail for used. But I am using almost exclusively VSTs, active monitors with subwoofers, PC-Audio interfaces too...

@ColdSalmon; having had two MKII Novation units I found the touch control to be too sensitive. If you moved one knob , very often other parts of the controller reacted too and shifted some values, or jumped to another page / ctrl value or knob. Could be just me of course, but I would suggest you try the MKII very seriously before buying and see if it works for you. The software matured during the years. Knobs and sliders are fine (though too sensitive for me) , pads are so so and XY control is totally worthless. So far on the Novation. (Better/ more flexible interfacing with SW than M-Audio IMHO). It's on the market for quite a while; I would wait for NAMM and see if new controller boxes will show up (Novation MKIII, new stuff).

This looks perfect. I'm really glad I didn't buy the A88 yet. Time to call my local Kawai dealer and make sure they get one when available.

Edit... Almost perfect. Some controllers would have been nice but I guess I can work around that.

Cool. Resistance is futile. I need one of these for my little Nord.

You and me both.

James
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Any chance it will hold a Jupiter 80?

Yeah, I expect so.

But good luck getting any playing done.



Cheers,
James
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