Piano World Home Page Forums Our Most Popular Forums Pianist Corner Fingering Scherzo No. 2 (Zimerman)

Oh -- that!

And y'know, I think I have to agree with you here. I've been playing it the way that you consider to be wrong, and while I wouldn't agree that it's "wrong," it does seem to me that you're right about how it tends to change the sound, and in a not-good way. I started playing it that way a long time ago, when I didn't think about things like this enough, and have just kept playing it that way without re-evaluating it. I'll probably be doing it "as written" from here on.

About the passage in the Scherzo: You're assuming that the stems mean something about what hand to play it with. Please realize that your view is far from fact. In my view, and in the view of many, the consistent upward stems are just an indication of what kind of musical figure it is -- a single voice.

I think the reason the Polonaise finale sounds better the way Chopin wrote it, is that it adds an additional melody line at the end. The LH thumb going from C to B-flat to A-flat, and I like it better. Another example is the final notes of his op 10 no 12, the final base note is a single note; however I recently saw an edition where the final bass notes were octaves. I much prefer the sound of the single note. As for the Scherzo, it seems we must agree to disagree here. I think this has been a great discussion, other than the beatings I've taken today over old threads.

If you take another look, you might see that you got more support than beating!

Or at least the support was smarter and better.

You're absolutely right. I think there was some great discourse on Liszt. I have read in several sources, that he could sight read anything. I can't, but my old teacher could, and that's enough proof for me.

Yeah, you're right. It does. I suppose it's my desire to impose a less rigid approach, which is, in itself, rigid. Ah, the conundrum. But I will recant.


I am not sure I subscribe to this idea. (In fact, I would say pretty strongly that I do not.) But for argument's sake, what say you: if I prepare a list of 30-40 different performances, where people use one hand and split hand, and you correctly identify at least 95%, then I will support your belief? (Of course, I may need Mark's and others help compiling the dang list.. but it would be an interesting study.)

I don't think it would be an interesting study. I think it would be a waste of time, because we'd be studying the possible truth of something that relatively few qualified people believe in and which I think is patent nonsense.

I think a reasonable criterion for making the effort to study something is that there be some reason to think it is true. I don't see anything approaching such a reason on this.

I agree, but the believers think it is true. I think, for the sake of the believers, it could help to sway them that their hold on such a notion is faulty. That is the angle from which I believe it can be useful. Obviously, I'm like you and subscribe to the idea that it is utter nonsense. But I understand that some people will not believe less than full evidentiary support. And that is what can be offered for those who are unwilling to find the evidence themselves. No?

Life's too short to try to convince everybody of everything.

And besides, I doubt that what you described (or anything) would convince who you're trying to convince. You're assuming that what you'd find would do so. What makes you think so? I think they'd say it doesn't matter how many people do it how they think is wrong, because they're just doing it wrong -- no matter who they are. And if some of the doubters would be amenable to things like that, they'll eventually come around anyway.

I'm in the camp that believes that it's a right hand passage....but is easier with two hands probably. I think the same can be said for Liszt's second cadenza in his 6th Hungarian Rhapsody.

But as the PW member with by far the greatest posting rate (as in most posts per year) you seem to spend an inordinate amount of time doing just that.

When worthwhile. I gave my criterion. You forgot to take that into account in your reply.

BTW if you reply to this post, please make sure to take everything into account, or you get another lash with a wet noodle.

For even trying, I suppose PT Barnum predicted my birth, down to the second..


I'm interested.. why do you believe that? Do you believe people who play it with two hands are "wrong" or that the music "can't sound the same"? Or is it just a preference in the way you play it?