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Sorry Ovidiu, wrong thread...cut and paste to the other?

I think many of us here in this thread have realized that we have to develop our hearing and that helps everything come about. Lots of listening involved.

Note that in jazz, it's not just about hearing notes, it's about hearing the rhythms and subtle timing in articulation/swing etc. A teacher can guide you to hear. At least I found that helpful. And a 'Slow-it-down' Software is a great aid.

If all of us here can hear in our ear what we play, we'd all be pretty famous We do it to varying degrees and that limits where we are.

If it's hand independence you're looking for, here's a good article: http://www.chrisdonnellymusic.com/Blog/Blog.php/achieving-hand-independence-general-advice

The LH needs to be automated in order to free the RH (I'm talking traditional jazz piano), you need to work on your voicings and the transitions between the chords in a tune.
To start with there's two kinds of voicings; with root or without root (rootless). Then there's shell voicings, close voicings, open voicings, quartal or triad based voicings, etc.
Ok that takes care of the voicings (what notes in what order to play a chord) then comes the rhythms that these voicings are played.

Someone asked to me to record Bye Bye Blackbird -- which I didn't know. Well I know it from listening to Jarrett but I've never played it. So I looked at the changes, turned on the recorder and here you have it. I didn't have time to be smart and inventive, I was just making sure I made the changes. This would be akin to getting a Leadsheet at a jam session and then seconds later, someone calls ..1...2...1234.

Anyway the goal of recording this was to see if I was able to incorporate some bop elements into my playing. Was I successful? I don't know. Lines are longer than would be typical of me now.

Bye Bye Blackbird
http://www.box.com/s/zcgeuuzevtlk1ssuv3g4

It's pretty easy though.

PS I don't know how to play the melody. Just BSing my way through it...

EDIT- this particular patch on the FP7F is quick to have a metallic sound. It's the default sound on the keyboard so I forget to change the key weight. The keys are lighter than my Grand so I tend to hit it harder.

It must be The Flux.
Last night at a jam somebody called BBB, lead sheet? no, we all "knew" it. Fun!, I so wrongly thought, when we started to play it all heck [hmm interesting, I wrote h e l l, but PW changed it to heck) broke loose, everybody played different changes! Well we got the I and the V right, but then . . .

JW, nice with longer lines, but they do tend to get too long imo.
I would like to hear the chords once in a while so as to aid the ear in staying with the tune. In other words; more space.
Also maybe more rhythmical variation.
I have a feeling that the cymbal hampers your swing, I would like to hear you play the tune with a straight cymbal.

Personally I'd like to hear you lose all the canned drum and bass stuff. It would make your time stronger just playing solo and make you a better "piano player".

I NEVER play with backing tracks. Every time I do., I can't play...I literally run out of ideas within one chorus.

Dave, the issue though is that I have to play in a band. And so I have to get used to that. Fortunately, I do play in a band setting rather frequently now so I'm able to test things out with real musicians. But I still have to practice...

The problem with just playing solo is my LH is not solid enough. Particularly if I expect it to drive the time. But point is well taken.

Given the limitations of solo practice, perhaps I can practice without the drums. Just the bass track.

I'm with Dave on that. I stopped playing with canned stuff completely. Nothing like a metronome. It makes your time better. I do not believe playing with fake drums helps playing with real ones.

If you're gonna play with a fake rhythm section, then play with records.

I also stopped using lead sheet almost completely. I will try out tunes with them, but almost never play with them.

At gigs, I don't play the tunes I don't know. And to tell you the truth, I'm making up a lot of it. Like tomorrow we're gonna play Funny Valentine. I checked out what the book said and I don't like it. I'm not gonna play those changes. I'll just play it the way I like it More and more I find that the book changes are overly complicated. I just try to focus on the key & melody and ignore much of the fluff.

>>my LH is not solid enough. Particularly if I expect it to drive the time
>> Given the limitations of solo practice, perhaps I can practice without the drums. Just the bass track.
Let the metronome drive the time.

A little different strategy for you Knotty.

My gigs require me to play different material constantly. It's a challenge. But the good news is that my list of known tunes is suddenly very high now.

I don't like the metronome though. That's even worse for me.

Different material because the folks you play with have a really large repertoire?

Add tunes, but slowly. And imho the gig is not the place to fake knowing a tune.

No, the audience has a large number of regulars. So they will get bored if I play the same thing. You can see the difference in my scenario. This is why I'm forced to have different singers as well.

I'm providing a 'show' and if it means I take a secondary role and allow someone else to shine so we provide a different sound then I do it. This is of course a result of a discussion with the venue and this is what they like. As it is, they already know that playing more than once a month might get old. But in exchange for this extra work I do for them, they book me a year in advance. So I'm full up with this one place for the whole year. Then I can fill the other times with other gigs and jams.

Jams of course force you to play something new all the time. But it's the place to mess up so what the heck.

>> No, the audience has a large number of regulars. So they will get bored if I play the same thing. You can see the difference in my scenario. This is why I'm forced to have different singers as well.

Perhaps you are right. I don't know. You mentioned Billy Joel (I think). PLaying always the same thing. The fans didn't mind. And it was the same singer, always the same tunes.

Bill evans is another good example. How many tunes did he have in his repertoire?

>>I'm providing a 'show' and if it means I take a secondary role and allow someone else to shine so we provide a different sound then I do it. This is of course a result of a discussion with the venue and this is what they like. As it is, they already know that playing more than once a month might get old. But in exchange for this extra work I do for them, they book me a year in advance. So I'm full up with this one place for the whole year. Then I can fill the other times with other gigs and jams.

I have to disagree with that approach. I think you are better off playing as well as you can. It doesn't matter what you play. I'll be very happy listening to Gene Harris playing the blues all night. Or Dave McKenna playing walking bass lines all night. Or McCoy on reaching fourth. It's not that much variety. Those guys know exactly where they stand and what they're good at. If someone says "PLay blackbird", and you don't know it, as easy as the tune it, screw it. Don't play it. Go home, figure it out. I refuse to play anything unless I've worked on it at least 2 weeks. People always come up with stuff they jsut heard in the car, or whatever. Screw that, it makes us sound like amateurs. PLay something repeatedly and people feel it. Check Bill Evans at the end of his career. Turn out the stars. The same tune night after night. I still have no idea how they know exactly where to connect. I listen to Mark Johnson and Bill and it's like "How did he know". I'm pretty sure it's not signs, seeing that Bill was always in his own world. I play that game myself all the time, with limited success. But I force myself to try to anticipate where others are going. The drummer, and the soloist particularly.

I wouldn't mind hearing you play Body and Soul (or whatever) once a month if that's what you play well. And you know what? As you play with musicians, the intros are going to start to click, the accents on particular tunes are going to start to match, the endings, while always improvised, will -somehow- magically work. And that's just the result of playing the same thing over and over with the same folks. There's something special there.

I realize your situation is somewhat unique in that this is a repeated crowd, many you probably know by name.

But I stand by my advice. Find whatever way you can to play your best, and screw what people want, or what you think they want.

Yeah but Bill Evans toured. He's not playing in the same place with the same people. Also, being who it is, even if he played for a week straight, different people would come in to watch.

Some of my audience members, I've come to recognize and I even know what tunes they like. One guy likes Take 5, another Corcovado, another always yells "more Miles", and someone yells "More Blues". So some repetition is good. But I have to have sufficient variety.

If it's all about me, I would fail. But that's why I have to have musicians better than me. On some tunes, they're the focus. For example, I don't do anything interesting on Take 5. The Sax and the Drums can provide that. I just back them up.

I'm thinking more about the 'Band' than myself as a sole player. This would be way different in a trio setting.

In any case, half the tunes are Vocals focused (almost always new or new key). And here we just have to act like professional accompanists. I play a short solo only.

I do an in between. There are tunes that I'm working on and I play it over and over because I think I have a different approach this time. I'll play Footprints again next time.

So I squeeze in some of my wants. But they pay the bills so I have to listen to them. Some of my musicians are really hungry and they need the money. I give them a regular gig.

And one more thing. Everybody I play with it seems has this "mixing it up" attitude. We played 3 swing tunes, now we should play a bossa. Since when are bossas mandatory at gigs?
I love bossas. But I don't really like to play them. I never listened to bossas as a kid. I listened to Lester Young and Charlie Parker. So guess what, that's what I like.

Now we have to play a tune in 3/4. On that basis alone, footprints, which is an OK tune, is called almost all the time. I don't have to play in 3/4 do I?

Check out KJ at blue note. 6 CDs. how many are in 3/4 and how many are bossas? I'd rather listen to Keith or Bud Powell any day. I don't need to mix it up. That's BS if you ask me.

At one time, it was normal for jazz musicians to play pop tunes. Like Wynton Kelly playing yesterday. (not days). Probably my least favorite Wynton Kelly track. And I'm a big fan.

I can tell you that as far as I'm concerned. I will never sell out. I may change the type of music I like, but I won't play what I don't think I should be playing.

I like your attitude. Well I'm not selling out in my case. I do like 3/4, I like Latin, Uptempo swing and probably less slower swing. Even the guy yells at me to play Blues, I will seldom do it because it's just not my thing.

Well -- I'll correct myself. I partially sell out. Having Vocals is a total sell out. I hate dealing with singers. They're Prima Donnas and have no musical understanding outside of themselves.

Other than this venue, I booked some new gigs for next year that have no vocals. That would make me very happy. About the only thing vocalists are good for in jazz (to me), is that I don't have to memorize the head.

>> Yeah but Bill Evans toured. He's not playing in the same place with the same people. Also, being who it is, even if he played for a week straight, different people would come in to watch.

I'm referring to his Village Vangard album (turn out the stars). A 6 CD set. But it doesn't even matter.

>>If it's all about me, I would fail. But that's why I have to have musicians better than me. On some tunes, they're the focus. For example, I don't do anything interesting on Take 5. The Sax and the Drums can provide that. I just back them up.
It's nice that you're taking that point of view. Though I think you could easily stand your own as a trio. I realize that if the owner wants a singer, you gotta have a singer. Or maybe you even like comping for singers. And that's all good.
All I'm saying is, even if you're behind the soloist, you still gotta shine, and I don't think it can be done unless you know a tune inside out.

Look at Herbie with Wayne shorter. I know those are monster but it shows that someone can be an accompanist and still completely make the CD. or what bass players? they're always in the back, almost never in the front. I like it when a bass player tells me "Sorry, i don't wanna play that". Don't you?

>>So I squeeze in some of my wants. But they pay the bills so I have to listen to them. Some of my musicians are really hungry and they need the money. I give them a regular gig.
It's like my day job. People don't know what they want. And that's why I get paid well . What your audience wants is good music. Just make that happen and you;ll be OK.

Funny we mentioned footprints at the same time

>> I like your attitude.
thank you

>>Well -- I'll correct myself. I partially sell out. Having Vocals is a total sell out. I hate dealing with singers. They're Prima Donnas and have no musical understanding outside of themselves.
you gotta do what you gotta do. But actually, some singers are awesome. It's kinda like guitarists, there are a lot so...

>>Other than this venue, I booked some new gigs for next year that have no vocals. That would make me very happy. About the only thing vocalists are good for in jazz (to me), is that I don't have to memorize the head.
That's really great.
I don't book anything myself. I keep having people call me "Hey, can you play that day?". It's really funny actually. Emails are always the same:
- Date
- Time
- Rough location. It's gotta be rough, cuz they wouldn't want you to steal it, right?
- Pay.

I don't like singers, and I think I have finally understood why. English is not my language. And it simply doesn't touch me. French lyrics get to me, english lyrics don't.
All I hear with singers is pitch, and it drives me nuts.
Dianne Reeves is my one exception. I don't know why, I find her awesome.

And to your comment about "I don't need to know the melody". Yes, you do. That's the single most important part about the tune.

Re: Dianne Reeves.
In Sept. 1999, 2 weeks apart, I saw Dee Dee Bridgwater, and then Dianne Reeves.
I found Dee Dee boring as heck.

Reeves was one of the most memorable concerts ever. The entire crowd stood up, went towards the scene and started dancing, clapping, and screaming as she's going into her weird unique vocal stuff. It was really something. A free concert in Paris. If she is ever in your neighborhood, go see her.
That same summer I saw Solal, Petrucciani and Ahmad Jamal. All for free. Those 3 pianists were amazing, in their very own styles, too.

It was a great summer. What I would give to go back 10 years ...