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#2014743 - 01/15/13 03:22 AM Kawai CA95 - key regulation & adjustments  
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pv88 Offline
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Have had my CA95 for about four months and have now determined 10 keys may need some minor regulation in three different areas:

1) Sticking notes - 6 keys:

This is where you lift a key upwards from the front edge (i.e., white keys only) and let it quickly rebound back via gravity. The keys only go upwards about 1/4 inch on an inch from their normal level position. I have found six keys that either rebound a little slower than the others and a few of those stick and stay in the upwards position. This hasn't affected normal play, as of yet.

2) Clicking notes - 2 keys:

One low bass F-sharp and a B are affected with a clicking noise, with the F-sharp sounding the click at a slower tap of the key and the B has to be struck quickly. Both key sounds are slightly different from one another.

3) Note spacing - 2 (sets) of keys:

A low D and E have a fairly wide gap, and, a higher E and F look to be too close together. The low D and E are playable without any noise, although one can easily get the higher E and F keys to rub together when alternating them between two hands.

All of the above has not affected my playing as of yet, although I am not completely happy with leaving things be, either.

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#2014748 - 01/15/13 03:36 AM Re: Kawai CA95 - key regulation & adjustments [Re: pv88]  
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Originally Posted by pv88
@Kawai James,

Have had my CA95 for about four months and I have now determined 10 keys have minor regulation issues in three different areas:

1) Sticking notes - 6 keys:

This is where you lift a key upwards from the front edge (i.e., white keys only) and let it quickly rebound back via gravity. The keys only go upwards about 1/4 inch on an inch from their normal level position. I have found six keys that either rebound a little slower than the others and a few of those stick and stay in the upwards position. This hasn't affected normal play, as of yet.

2) Clicking notes - 2 keys:

One low bass F-sharp and a B are affected with a clicking noise, with the F-sharp sounding the click at a slower tap of the key and the B has to be struck quickly. Both key sounds are slightly different from one another.

3) Note spacing - 2 (sets) of keys:

A low D and E have a fairly wide gap, and, a higher E and F look to be too close together. The low D and E are playable without any noise, although one can easily get the higher E and F keys to rub together when alternating them between two hands.

All of the above has not affected my playing as of yet, although I am not completely happy with leaving things be, either. Think that I will be calling my local store to get someone to make the adjustments.

Also, I had a store technician come out when I first purchased the piano (last September) as he didn't make any repairs or adjustments at that time, since it was still brand new. To be honest, it didn't appear that this tech wanted to do anything or make the adjustments that I had pointed out to him, etc. Ironically, this is the only tech that my local store has, for digital piano repairs.

Questions:

1) So, what do you think, as I am four months in with playing it and these 10 keys are not settling in, or, adjusting of their own accord?

2) Will my local store still use the same guy (that didn't appear to be interested in making any adjustments) to do the work, or, should I request for a certified Kawai tech be sent out, instead?


I was just talking about this in another post in this forum. I went to look at a Kawai CA65 last weekend and noticed the "A" below middle "C" was sticking.....

#2014755 - 01/15/13 03:48 AM Re: Kawai CA95 - key regulation & adjustments [Re: pv88]  
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I had cause to complain about a CN model a few years ago. It was making horrible screechy electronic noises. When being played in public. And the keyboard was flimsy feeling, although very good for playing.

It took a year before the repair was authorised and carried out. My estimation of Kawai and the local dealer plummeted.

I did notice that the cabinet was of inferior quality to the Clavinovas. More in keeping with the YDP range. But it was portable, sort of.


"I am not a man. I am a free number"

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#2014777 - 01/15/13 06:25 AM Re: Kawai CA95 - key regulation & adjustments [Re: pv88]  
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Hmm, posts like these make me question my choice. frown I have fallen in love with the CA-95 but I can't help but wonder how frequent such problems are.

Btw another store in my area has told me that nobody wants the Kawai so they don't sell their products. frown Tough luck.

Last edited by Clayman; 01/15/13 06:26 AM.

-- Zbynek N.

Learning to play the piano since 06/2013 on a Kawai CA-95.

Music is what feelings sound like. ~ Author Unknown
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#2014780 - 01/15/13 06:33 AM Re: Kawai CA95 - key regulation & adjustments [Re: Clayman]  
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Originally Posted by Clayman
Hmm, posts like these make me question my choice. frown I have fallen in love with the CA-95 but I can't help but wonder how frequent such problems are.

Btw another store in my area has told me that nobody wants the Kawai so they don't sell their products. frown Tough luck.

Did they tell you why nobody wants the kawai ?
It looks to me that this seller only wanted to sell others brands for commercial reasons
I previously owned a CA93 and encountered no problems at all (like many others I think)
Cheers


Music is a lifestyle
(Happy Yamaha N2 and Roland FP90 owner)
#2014783 - 01/15/13 06:37 AM Re: Kawai CA95 - key regulation & adjustments [Re: Clayman]  
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These posts worry me also considering mines is being delivered on Friday. I tend to think that these minor problems that people are experiencing are the exception rather than the rule. At the end of the day, Kawai have an excellent reputation and there are many who believe that they are on a par with Yamaha in terms of their pianos. The CA series seems to be widely regarded as the finest DP's out there with the possible exception of the Yamaha NU1/AG etc. I only have a couple more days of waiting until I find out for myself!

#2014792 - 01/15/13 07:09 AM Re: Kawai CA95 - key regulation & adjustments [Re: Tom Tom]  
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Originally Posted by Tom Tom
These posts worry me also considering mines is being delivered on Friday. I tend to think that these minor problems that people are experiencing are the exception rather than the rule. At the end of the day, Kawai have an excellent reputation and there are many who believe that they are on a par with Yamaha in terms of their pianos. The CA series seems to be widely regarded as the finest DP's out there with the possible exception of the Yamaha NU1/AG etc. I only have a couple more days of waiting until I find out for myself!

Hello TomTom
You may have seen in my profile that I have a NU1, and I previoulsy onwed a CA93 wink
But don't worry, The Kawai (at least the CA93) are good pianos, but for personal reasons, I preferred to trade in for a NU1

Last edited by enzo.sandrolini; 01/15/13 07:14 AM.

Music is a lifestyle
(Happy Yamaha N2 and Roland FP90 owner)
#2014794 - 01/15/13 07:16 AM Re: Kawai CA95 - key regulation & adjustments [Re: pv88]  
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pv88/Richard,

First, please do not create a post and start it with '@Kawai James' - this is terribly bad forum etiquette. If you have a query for me, please send a direct message, as you have often done in the past.

Second, my area of expertise is related to writing owner's manuals and brochures, and preparing other marketing materials. I am happy to assist with queries relating to an instrument's operation, features, or specifications as these areas are directly connected to my day to day work. However, I am not responsible for hardware-related customer support, have relatively limited knowledge in this area, and am therefore reluctant to provide suggestions or guidance.

Third, any queries related to customer support should always be raised directly with your dealer and/or Kawai America - they are chiefly responsible for the instrument during the warranty period.

Fourth, in future, please think about the potentially damaging repercussions your idiosyncratic posts can have on the reputations of established musical instrument manufacturers (Roland, Casio, and now Kawai). Not to mention the negative influence such posts can have on other forum members and those considering the purchase of a digital piano - regardless of the brand.

Now, with regards to your query, if you have any concerns with your piano, I strongly recommend that you contact the dealer from where it was purchased in order to seek assistance. In the unlikely case that you are unsatisfied with the dealer's response or level of support, I recommend that you contact Kawai America and explain the situation in full.

Originally Posted by pv88
1) Sticking notes - 6 keys:

This is where you lift a key upwards from the front edge (i.e., white keys only) and let it quickly rebound back via gravity. The keys only go upwards about 1/4 inch on an inch from their normal level position. I have found six keys that either rebound a little slower than the others and a few of those stick and stay in the upwards position. This hasn't affected normal play, as of yet.


Why on earth would you do this? Is there a particular piano playing technique that requires the performer to lift individual keys?

Thank you for your understanding. I look forward to hearing more of your CA95 recordings in the future.

Kind regards,
James
x


Employed by Kawai Japan, however the opinions I express are my own.
Nord Electro 3 fan & occasional rare groove player.
#2014797 - 01/15/13 07:21 AM Re: Kawai CA95 - key regulation & adjustments [Re: enzo.sandrolini]  
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Originally Posted by enzo.sandrolini

Did they tell you why nobody wants the kawai ?
It looks to me that this seller only wanted to sell others brands for commercial reasons
I previously owned a CA93 and encountered no problems at all (like many others I think)
Cheers


Not really. They may have their own interests at heart as they do sell heaps of Yamaha and Roland pianos but I guess I can blame it partly on people's general unawareness of the Kawai brand. It's a vicious circle really -- nobody buys the Kawai so shops don't sell and promote their products and since no retailers even try to increase the public's awareness of that brand, there's next to no demand for it.

There's literally only one decent (= big enough to be trustworthy) music shop in Prague I know of that does sell Kawai pianos but since the CA series is of the (relatively) pricier variety, they only stock the low- to mid-range models and supply the top-range ones on request. And of course, I'd like to at least try out the CA-95 before shelling out the big money for it, even though I'm quite sure there'd be little I might not like.

I guess there's no harm in asking but I reckon they'd only be willing to supply a unit for testing if I was seriously interested in buying it and, sadly, as much as I'd love to do that, it's not going to happen for a few more months.


-- Zbynek N.

Learning to play the piano since 06/2013 on a Kawai CA-95.

Music is what feelings sound like. ~ Author Unknown
#2014845 - 01/15/13 09:12 AM Re: Kawai CA95 - key regulation & adjustments [Re: pv88]  
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EssBrace Online content
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Originally Posted by pv88

1) Sticking notes - 6 keys:

This is where you lift a key upwards from the front edge (i.e., white keys only) and let it quickly rebound back via gravity. The keys only go upwards about 1/4 inch on an inch from their normal level position. I have found six keys that either rebound a little slower than the others and a few of those stick and stay in the upwards position. This hasn't affected normal play, as of yet.


Richard, are you lifting keys from their usual "at rest" position? If so, why would you do that? - it takes the keys into a movement they would never make when actually being played. Most DPs will allow you to lift the keys a few mm but the keys would never go there unless you deliberately lift them.

Your post almost reads like you have sat at the CA-95 and intentionally looked for problems, even when they are not relevant to normal playing. In doing so, and posting on a public forum, all you do is damage the reputation (and potentially the value) of the asset you own. Judging from the responses above your post has already got a couple of soon-to-be or potential Kawai owners twitching quite unnecessarily. I'm just thinking about what is in YOUR best interests here.

Finally, if you are determined to make these matters the subject of public posts - in the interests of balance and fairness - perhaps you should mention what you are routinely saying in private correspondence, ie, that despite owning a V-Piano, the CA-95 is your favourite digital piano.

I think you should just try to enjoy it!

Cheers,

Steve

#2014894 - 01/15/13 12:10 PM Re: Kawai CA95 - key regulation & adjustments [Re: EssBrace]  
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Originally Posted by EssBrace
Originally Posted by pv88

1) Sticking notes - 6 keys:

This is where you lift a key upwards from the front edge (i.e., white keys only) and let it quickly rebound back via gravity. The keys only go upwards about 1/4 inch on an inch from their normal level position. I have found six keys that either rebound a little slower than the others and a few of those stick and stay in the upwards position. This hasn't affected normal play, as of yet.


Richard, are you lifting keys from their usual "at rest" position? If so, why would you do that? - it takes the keys into a movement they would never make when actually being played. Most DPs will allow you to lift the keys a few mm but the keys would never go there unless you deliberately lift them.


Right. That does look like an odd way to "test" a piano keyboard. confused (I guess I didn't read or think about the OP carefully enough the first time.)

Anyhow, the other points still seem valid to some degree. I remember Kawai James mention the fact that CA-95's keyboard, being completely made of wood, allows for some small spacing deviations between keys but still, the keys should never touch (let alone rub against) each other.

And as for the clicking sound -- I can't really tell how significant it may be but my guess is that since no keyboard is absolutely perfect, especially when it's made of a natural material such as wood that may have some small asperities on its surface, I imagine it is not as serious as it sounds.


-- Zbynek N.

Learning to play the piano since 06/2013 on a Kawai CA-95.

Music is what feelings sound like. ~ Author Unknown
#2014905 - 01/15/13 12:48 PM Re: Kawai CA95 - key regulation & adjustments [Re: pv88]  
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Just thought i would throw two penneth into the fray....

I absolutely loved my ca95, some minor issues but well above the clp470.... i played both and imho its the best value high end dp out there...

They all have slightly uneven key spacing... something to do with the keys being setup on pins rather than clipping in like a plastic key.... ITS NOT THE END OF THE WORLD! The action is super smooth, sound is generally lovely...

I changed mine for a kawai k3, the action is not as smooth as the ca95, but then it is an upright and the ca95 simulates a grand.... i get a few irritating resonances and there is tye odd niggle but they are both wonderful instruments...

Three cheers for kawai, and someone should buy kawaijames a beer.... after months of doing his best to help and be constantly diplomatic.... recon he needs a night off.. :-)


#2014916 - 01/15/13 01:03 PM Re: Kawai CA95 - key regulation & adjustments [Re: pv88]  
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I agree about the spacing - my CA63 has some uneven spacing, but then I played a newish Steinway concert grand the other week and guess what? Some bigger gaps than my Kawai has! Apparently, there is a capstan adjuster for every key, so it is not a big job for a tech to sort out. I was told they will come and do this under warranty in the first year if I request it.

#2014917 - 01/15/13 01:04 PM Re: Kawai CA95 - key regulation & adjustments [Re: pv88]  
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Doesn't sound like a deal killer, send it to me if you don't want it any more!! [Linked Image]

#2015038 - 01/15/13 05:15 PM Re: Kawai CA95 - key regulation & adjustments [Re: EssBrace]  
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Originally Posted by EssBrace
Richard, are you lifting keys from their usual "at rest" position? If so, why would you do that? - it takes the keys into a movement they would never make when actually being played. Most DPs will allow you to lift the keys a few mm but the keys would never go there unless you deliberately lift them.


As for your question about lifting the keys upward, you are right that I would normally never do this, although I happened to notice a large gap of least 1/8th to 1/4 inch (not a few mm's) at the back of the keys (sighting this at key level) where each key meets the red felt strip.

Every white key therefore can be freely lifted from the front edge until the back edge of each key meets that red felt strip where the key will stop, otherwise it would just continue moving upward, as if to lift out a key from its key bed. There is no resistance in the upward motion of the keys, with the literal gap being there at the red felt strip. I suppose one could lift any white key right off its pivot point in order to regulate it.

#2015043 - 01/15/13 05:23 PM Re: Kawai CA95 - key regulation & adjustments [Re: pv88]  
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Originally Posted by pv88
I do not have this much play (in fact, none) with my other Kawai EP3, or, the V-Piano as the keys do not go upwards at all on those. I have never encountered this, before.


As I explained before, plastic key actions (such as the those used by the EP3 and V-Piano) typically have the key 'snap into' a hinge like structure that only allows the key to pivot at an angle.

Kawai's wooden key actions do not have this characteristic. Instead, each key 'sits' on a balance pin, like a acoustic piano key. And because the key is not snapped into any structure, it can be lifted. This design allows the key to be lifted off the balance and removed for regulation - again, like an acoustic piano key.

Honestly, I do not believe this is a problem.

Kind regards,
James
x


Employed by Kawai Japan, however the opinions I express are my own.
Nord Electro 3 fan & occasional rare groove player.
#2015049 - 01/15/13 05:39 PM Re: Kawai CA95 - key regulation & adjustments [Re: Kawai James]  
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Okay, thanks for reply about the extra upward motion (and, gap at the back of each key) as this would allow each key to be lifted out and be regulated. In and of itself then, this motion/gap is a design feature and not an issue.

1) However, I still have notes that stick when you raise some of the white keys (from their front edges as mentioned) and they either remain in the upward position, or don't rebound back, quickly enough. I have at least six keys that stick in this manner, meaning that they are catching on their pivot points just as in a real grand action. Hence, this would the old-fashioned "sticking" key symptom.

2) Two notes have a noticeable clicking noise, not like the other keys which have a normal soft thump.

3) Two sets of keys are not spaced correctly.

All three of the above items (or, 10 keys) could be properly regulated on the CA95, am I right?

#2015074 - 01/15/13 06:38 PM Re: Kawai CA95 - key regulation & adjustments [Re: pv88]  
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pv88,

Originally Posted by pv88
Okay, thanks for reply about the extra upward motion (and, gap at the back of each key) as this would allow each key to be lifted out and be regulated. In and of itself then, this motion/gap is a design feature and not an issue.


Yes, you are correct.

Originally Posted by pv88
1) However, I still have notes that stick when you raise some of the white keys...


Please explain why you believe it is necessary to lift keys up when they are supposed to be pushed down.

Originally Posted by pv88
2) Two notes have a noticeable clicking noise, not like the other keys which have a normal soft thump.


This should be reported to the dealer.

Originally Posted by pv88
3) Two sets of keys are not spaced correctly.


This can also be reported to the dealer. However, as I explained previously, unlike vacuum moulded plastic keys, your CA95's keys are individual cut from wood. Moreover, the keys sit on a balance pin, rather than 'snapping' into a hinge mechanism. For these reasons, there may be a slight variance in key spacing.

Originally Posted by pv88
All three of the above items (or, 10 keys) could be properly regulated on the CA95, am I right?


The 6 keys that 'do not always return when lifted' is a non-issue.
The 2 keys that produce a clicking noise is something that should be investigated by the dealer.
The 2 keys that are 'not correctly spaced' is also something that can be investigated by the dealer.

Originally Posted by pv88
I am waiting for a reply from Kawai US, at this time.


I expect many of my colleagues at Kawai America are focussing on NAMM preparations, however I'm confident that your query will be responded to in the correct manner. If you have not done so already, I would strongly recommend raising your concerns with your Kawai dealer.

Kind regards,
James
x


Employed by Kawai Japan, however the opinions I express are my own.
Nord Electro 3 fan & occasional rare groove player.
#2015161 - 01/15/13 10:14 PM Re: Kawai CA95 - key regulation & adjustments [Re: pv88]  
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It took a year before the repair was authorised and carried out. My estimation of Kawai and the local dealer plummeted.


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#2015210 - 01/16/13 12:18 AM Re: Kawai CA95 - key regulation & adjustments [Re: Kawai James]  
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Originally Posted by Kawai James
[1] The 6 keys that 'do not always return when lifted' is a non-issue.

[2] The 2 keys that produce a clicking noise is something that should be investigated by the dealer.

[3] The 2 keys that are 'not correctly spaced' is also something that can be investigated by the dealer.

I expect many of my colleagues at Kawai America are focussing on NAMM preparations, however I'm confident that your query will be responded to in the correct manner. If you have not done so already, I would strongly recommend raising your concerns with your Kawai dealer.


As for the above:

[1] It appears that when a white key is lifted upwards as far as it will go (about 1/4 inch) it will quickly rebound to its original position. This should be the same across the board for every key.

I have found 6 keys that stick on the rebound (when released as described) and some of these stick entirely in the upward position and do not fall back unless you push it down, again. Several others rebound more slowly and eventually return to the original level position.

These are wood keys as they can stick just like on an acoustic piano, so I have to disagree that these observations are a "non-issue."

[2, 3] As for items "2" and "3" we are in agreement that they can be regulated.

#2015232 - 01/16/13 01:29 AM Re: Kawai CA95 - key regulation & adjustments [Re: pv88]  
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The CA95 has wooden keys, traditional pins and felt - and as such its keys will be subject to the same issues that an acoustic piano might have. Any piano tech would be able to ease bushings and adjust key spacing. It's not a difficult job.

I think people develop an unrealistic impression of how maintenance free a DP should be. If a DP maker goes to the trouble of adding real wooden keys for the sake of realism, anyone who buys that must expect some level of maintenance or potential teething problems. After all it isn't dimensionally stable plastic and that's presumably why you bought it in the first place.

We don't know the humidity and temperature conditions of Richard's home. For that reason we can't make any conclusions about this situation. Regardless of where the humidity sits, if you can get it stable, a technician will be able to appropriately ease the bushings and adjust the pins to have it playing how you want it.

Richard, you should go through these steps before making any far reaching conclusions about how well your CA95 is made.

#2015270 - 01/16/13 03:37 AM Re: Kawai CA95 - key regulation & adjustments [Re: pv88]  
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PV88

As others have said the CA95 has wooden keys, if you have the piano located where there's too much humidity the bushing and or keys can expand and will cause keys to respond slowly and even stick.

I have an old eavestaff piano in my shed / garden office, when I first received it there were several keys sticking and or returning slowly, I now have a small radiator in the shed, not too close to the piano but enough to help reduce the humidity and now after a few weeks all the keys are free and return quickly.

Also lifting the keys as you described may cause them not to re-seat correctly causing the slow return, the balance pins in an acoustic piano can be bent left to right to align the keys, something that should only be done by an engineer of course.

If it's still under warranty get an engineer to look at it via Kawai, I'm sure they'll sort it out for you.

Cheers

Martin


Cheers

Martin
#2024262 - 01/30/13 08:15 PM Re: Kawai CA95 - key regulation & adjustments [Re: MFBlueFly]  
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Joined: Aug 2010
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Update to the previous info:

Did speak with someone at Kawai and also the dealer/store, as Kawai will be authorizing the dealer/store technician to do the regulation. There are a total of 11 items that I have found that will need adjustment, although I was told the technician will be doing a "full regulation" of all 88 keys.

Currently waiting on a call (from the tech) to set up a day for the visit.

Anyone who needs regulation should be able to do likewise.


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