Welcome to the Piano World Piano Forums
Over 2.5 million posts about pianos, digital pianos, and all types of keyboard instruments
Join the World's Largest Community of Piano Lovers (it's free)
It's Fun to Play the Piano ... Please Pass It On!

SEARCH
Piano Forums & Piano World
What's Hot!!
Hurricane Irma & Our Piano Friends!
--------------------
Posting Pictures on the Forums
-------------------
Forums RULES & HELP
-------------------
ADVERTISE on Piano World
(ad)
Virtual Sheet Music
Download Sheet Music Instantly
Virtual Sheet Music - Classical Sheet Music Downloads
Sheet Music...
(125ad)
Piano Life Saver - Dampp Chaser
Dampp Chaser Piano Life Saver
(ad)
Piano Buyer Guide
Piano Buyer Spring 2017
(ad)
4th Finger Enigma Resolved!
Schumann's 4th Finger Enigma Resolved!
Who's Online Now
79 registered members (Bernhard Stopper, AndyP, bennevis, Agent88, anamnesis, alphonsus, 21 invisible), 1,703 guests, and 3 spiders.
Key: Admin, Global Mod, Mod
(ad)
Estonia Pianos
Estonia Pianos
Quick Links to Useful Piano & Music Resources
Our Classified Ads
Find Piano Professionals-

*Piano Dealers - Piano Stores
*Piano Tuners
*Piano Teachers
*Piano Movers
*Piano Restorations
*Piano Manufacturers

Quick Links:
*Advertise On Piano World
*Free Piano Newsletter
*Online Piano Recitals
*Piano Recitals Index
*Piano & Music Accessories
*Live Piano Venues
*Music School Listings
* Buying a Piano
*Buying A Acoustic Piano
*Buying a Digital Piano
*Pianos for Sale
*Sell Your Piano
*How Old is My Piano?
*Directory/Site Map
*Virtual Piano
*Music Word Search
*Piano Videos
*Virtual Piano Chords & Scales
Previous Thread
Next Thread
Print Thread
#2013683 - 01/12/13 10:58 PM Students preparing for music major  
Joined: Mar 2006
Posts: 7,639
John v.d.Brook Offline
7000 Post Club Member
John v.d.Brook  Offline
7000 Post Club Member

Joined: Mar 2006
Posts: 7,639
Olympia, Washington, USA
For you in the academic community, what are your expectations concerning Classical and Baroque repertoire that you'd like students to have studied as potential music majors?

Beethoven - which sonatas? other lit?
Haydn - ditto
Mozart - ditto

Any others?

Same questions for the Baroque period. Which Bach would you like students to have tackled? Other composers?

Are you looking for breadth of composers, or depth on a select few?

Other thoughts?

Thanks.

John


"Those who dare to teach must never cease to learn." -- Richard Henry Dann
Full-time Private Piano Teacher offering Piano Lessons in Olympia, WA. www.mypianoteacher.com
Certified by the American College of Musicians; member NGPT, MTNA, WSMTA, OMTA
(ad)
Piano & Music Accessories
piano accessories music gifts tuning and moving equipment
#2013743 - 01/13/13 01:50 AM Re: Students preparing for music major [Re: John v.d.Brook]  
Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 7,160
AZNpiano Offline
7000 Post Club Member
AZNpiano  Offline
7000 Post Club Member

Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 7,160
Orange County, CA
I don't teach at the college level, but I'm familiar with the requirements.

Haydn: Hob. XVI: 27, 32, 33, 35, 36, 37, 46, and 49 (maybe 50)

Mozart: K. 279, 283, 309, 330, 332, 333, 545

Beethoven: Op. 2, No. 1; Op. 10, No. 1; Op. 13; Op. 14, No. 2; Op. 27, No. 2; Op. 49, No. 1; Op. 49, No. 2

I'd say among these selections, 5 first movements, 2 second movements, and 3 third movements. Maybe one complete sonata.

As for Baroque, almost all the universities require a Bach Prelude and Fugue for the audition. That seems to be the golden standard.


Private Piano Teacher and MTAC Member
#2013751 - 01/13/13 02:12 AM Re: Students preparing for music major [Re: John v.d.Brook]  
Joined: Jun 2009
Posts: 1,702
Minniemay Offline
1000 Post Club Member
Minniemay  Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Joined: Jun 2009
Posts: 1,702
CA
Oh, my dream list . . .

I wish students entering college (a BA/BM program in a liberal arts institution):

Bach - Little Preludes, 2 and 3 part inventions, some French Suite movements, a P and F.

Haydn - Doesn't really matter which ones, but 4-6 sonatas studied (at least first movements, preferably 2 in their entirety)

Mozart - same list as AZN

Beethoven - Op. 2/1, Op. 10/1, Op. 10/2, Op. 27/1 or 2 and either 14/1 or 2, maybe Tempest - again several 1st mvts, some 2nd and at least one complete

Chopin - Waltzes, a couple of nocturnes, a few of the more ambitious preludes and at least one etude (Revolutionary, Cello, Ocean Waves, Aeolian Harp)

I'm hoping they have some usable technique without many things to fix, and a good general understanding of basic stylistic principles. I also want good reading ability. If they can't read well, learning literature is slow and you can't get through enough literature.

One of the big problems at the college level is the limited nature of the semester/quarter. You only have so many lessons in which to:

1) Get to know the student
2) Address major deficiencies
3) Expand knowledge and
4) Prepare a jury



B.A., Piano, Piano Pegagogy, Music Ed.
M.M., Piano
#2013840 - 01/13/13 10:35 AM Re: Students preparing for music major [Re: John v.d.Brook]  
Joined: Mar 2006
Posts: 7,639
John v.d.Brook Offline
7000 Post Club Member
John v.d.Brook  Offline
7000 Post Club Member

Joined: Mar 2006
Posts: 7,639
Olympia, Washington, USA
Thank you. Other thoughts? Of course, I'm aware of audition requirements. If you read Peabody or Juilliard's list, they are much more rigorous than say most state universities. I am more interested in knowing/learning what you'd like to see as the student's background/repertoire.


"Those who dare to teach must never cease to learn." -- Richard Henry Dann
Full-time Private Piano Teacher offering Piano Lessons in Olympia, WA. www.mypianoteacher.com
Certified by the American College of Musicians; member NGPT, MTNA, WSMTA, OMTA
#2014202 - 01/14/13 03:36 AM Re: Students preparing for music major [Re: John v.d.Brook]  
Joined: Dec 2012
Posts: 1,959
musicpassion Offline
1000 Post Club Member
musicpassion  Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Joined: Dec 2012
Posts: 1,959
California, USA
Originally Posted by John v.d.Brook
For you in the academic community, what are your expectations concerning Classical and Baroque repertoire that you'd like students to have studied as potential music majors?


I'm not teaching at University, but I prepare students for admissions (only some of my students of course). So my comments are from that perspective.

First general thought is that some programs are very, very competetive in the piano departments. So what does a student need to gain admission and do well in a department like that? I think that's beyond my ability to answer in a forum post. But I do think we know and recognize such a pianist when we hear him (or her).

So getting to my actual point... my comments are geared toward the "average" music major, not the elite-one-in-a-million student. Also I'm trying to be realistic about what a student might have actually studied.

Quote
Beethoven - which sonatas?
I like them to have studied something from the opus 49s early on. A bagatelle. Then work in two or three sonatas - I like the lists already posted so won't duplicate.

Quote
Haydn

Because exams are generally centered around historical music periods, Haydn sometimes gets ignored in favor of Mozart or Clementi. If the exam system lumps Beethoven into the same catagory then Haydn really gets neglected. I'm not saying I like this or think this is ideal... just stating what I have seen happen.

Quote
Mozart

At least work from two different sonatas, and at least one movment in Sonata-Allegro form. The examples already listed are good.

Quote
Any others?

Oh yes: Chopin. They should have studied some significant Chopin, included Nocturnes and Waltzes. Although they should have studied some major etude I'm ok with a student picking another etude besides Chopin. However Chopin is probably the most common choice.

Another important catagory (I think): The great Russain composers. I try to have students play something from this school.

Quote
Same questions for the Baroque period. Which Bach would you like students to have tackled?


Generally students will have studied at least some Two Part Inventions, some movements from a French Suite, and a Prelude and Fugue from the WTC.

Quote
Other composers?

Don't forget the contemporary composers.


Pianist and Piano Teacher
#2014316 - 01/14/13 10:54 AM Re: Students preparing for music major [Re: John v.d.Brook]  
Joined: Jun 2009
Posts: 1,702
Minniemay Offline
1000 Post Club Member
Minniemay  Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Joined: Jun 2009
Posts: 1,702
CA
I wasn't speaking from a point of admissions. The admissions requirements at the major schools like Juilliard and Eastman are nearly identical.

I sent a student off to conservatory this past fall. I knew already in 2008 or so that he would likely do this -- could see the handwriting on the wall. I sat down and made a list of all the repertoire I wanted him to have studied by the time he graduated. That was the best thing I could ever have done. It kept us focused, even during competition season.

We didn't study every piece in depth, of course, but he covered everything on the list (with a few substitutions here and there) and his college teacher commented to me how well-rounded his repertoire is. His current competition repertoire is mostly the last few things he studied with me, being tweaked and refined with his current teacher.

It's hard to keep perspective and to stay grounded. Doing a major outline like I did was the saving grace.


B.A., Piano, Piano Pegagogy, Music Ed.
M.M., Piano
#2014469 - 01/14/13 03:01 PM Re: Students preparing for music major [Re: John v.d.Brook]  
Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 7,160
AZNpiano Offline
7000 Post Club Member
AZNpiano  Offline
7000 Post Club Member

Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 7,160
Orange County, CA
RE: Baroque

I think it is the most neglected era. There are many composers beside J.S. Bach whose work is worth learning: Scarlatti, Handel, Rameau, Couperin, Purcell, and Seixas. If you want to include the late-Baroque/early-classical: C.P.E. Bach, W.F. Bach, Galuppi, Cimarosa, Paradisi, and Soler.

The problem is, most kids don't find music from this era interesting at all. In fact, most detest, loathe, and abhor Baroque music. If I weren't so enthusiastic about teaching Baroque music, I doubt half of my students would learn as many Bach pieces as they do, and for those who continue to resist learning Bach, well, they can have the most "romantic" Rameau and Scarlatti pieces.


Private Piano Teacher and MTAC Member
#2014530 - 01/14/13 05:20 PM Re: Students preparing for music major [Re: Minniemay]  
Joined: Mar 2006
Posts: 7,639
John v.d.Brook Offline
7000 Post Club Member
John v.d.Brook  Offline
7000 Post Club Member

Joined: Mar 2006
Posts: 7,639
Olympia, Washington, USA
Originally Posted by Minniemay
I wasn't speaking from a point of admissions. The admissions requirements at the major schools like Juilliard and Eastman are nearly identical.

I sent a student off to conservatory this past fall. I knew already in 2008 or so that he would likely do this -- could see the handwriting on the wall. I sat down and made a list of all the repertoire I wanted him to have studied by the time he graduated. That was the best thing I could ever have done. It kept us focused, even during competition season.

We didn't study every piece in depth, of course, but he covered everything on the list (with a few substitutions here and there) and his college teacher commented to me how well-rounded his repertoire is. His current competition repertoire is mostly the last few things he studied with me, being tweaked and refined with his current teacher.

It's hard to keep perspective and to stay grounded. Doing a major outline like I did was the saving grace.

Thank you. This is precisely why I'm asking. I can read Juilliard's admissions and audition requirements very easily, thank you very much. In fact, I've printed them out, along with Peobody's, for use by parents and an aggressive 8th grader. I don't want to teach to the "test" as it were, but want to insure that my teaching encompasses the whole of the preparation faculty are looking for, in their "heart of hearts."

Quote
Juilliard Audition Requirements
The entire audition program should reach a minimum of 45 minutes. Shorter programs may be subject to approval by the piano faculty.
1. Bach: A prelude and fugue from The Well-Tempered Clavier or another work containing a fugue. (No transcriptions permitted.)
2. One of the following:
a. An entire sonata by Beethoven (excluding Opp. 14, 49, and 79), or
b. One of the following Haydn sonatas: Hob. 20, 23, 32, 46, 49, 50, 52, or
c. One of the following Mozart sonatas:  K. 281, 284, 310, 332, 333, 457, 533, or 576, or
d. One of the following Schubert sonatas: D. 568, 664, 784, 845, 850, 894, 958, 959, 960, or the Wanderer Fantasie, D. 760.
3. A substantial composition by Chopin, Schumann, Brahms, Liszt, or Mendelssohn. (Etudes, nocturnes, short dances, waltzes, or comparable pieces are not acceptable.)
4. Two virtuosic etudes:
a. one by Chopin, and
b. one by Bartók, Debussy, Ligeti, Liszt, Prokofiev, Rachmaninoff, Scriabin, or Stravinsky.
5. A substantial work, or a collection of shorter works, of the applicant’s choice which is:
a. in a different style and by a composer other than those selected for the previous requirements, and
b. not less than six minutes.

Peabody Audition Requirements
Undergraduate piano applications must upload a pre-screening video to DecisionDesk by December 1. The video must include:
A sonata-allegro movement from a classical sonata
a major romantic work
one virtuosic etude
Applicants passing the pre-screening will be required to perform at Peabody in person for admission. Here is the required repertoire:
1. BAROQUE - A Prelude and Fugue or any other work containing a fugue by J.S. Bach.
2. CLASSICAL - Complete (All-Movements) sonata by Mozart, Haydn, Beethoven or Schubert. The Mozart G Major Sonata, K. 283, and Beethoven Sonata, Op. 49 may not be used to fulfill this requirement.
3. ROMANTIC - A major solo work by a 19th-century composer. For example - Chopin: Ballades, Scherzi, or Sonata; Brahms: Op. 118 or 119 (complete); Liszt: Dante Sonata, Vallee d'Obermann or a Hungarian Rhapsody. Note: A Chopin Nocturne or Etude may not be used to fulfill this requirement.
4. 20TH CENTURY - A major solo work.
5. ETUDE - A virtuoso Etude by one of the following composers: Chopin, Liszt, Rachmaninoff, Scriabin, Debussy, Bartok, or Stravinsky.
6. TRANSFER STUDENTS ONLY: Must present one additional virtuosic etude from Chopin, Liszt, Debussy, or Rachmaninoff.


"Those who dare to teach must never cease to learn." -- Richard Henry Dann
Full-time Private Piano Teacher offering Piano Lessons in Olympia, WA. www.mypianoteacher.com
Certified by the American College of Musicians; member NGPT, MTNA, WSMTA, OMTA

Moderated by  Ken Knapp 

Piano Acc. & Gift Items in
Piano World's Online Store
In PianoSupplies.com ,(a division of Piano World)
our online store for piano and music gifts and accessories, Digital Piano Dolly, party goods, tuning equipment, piano moving equipment, benches, lamps Caster Cups and more.


Free Shipping* on Jansen Artist Piano Benches, Cocoweb Piano Lamps, Hidrau Hydraulic Piano Benches
(*free shipping within contiguous U.S. only)
(ad)
Pearl River
Pearl River Pianos
(ad)
Pianoteq
PianoTeq 6 Out now
(ad)
Lindeblad Piano
Lindeblad Piano Restorations and sales
ad
Pierce Piano Atlas


New Topics - Multiple Forums
want to be a piano technician and tuner...
by Zoli. 09/19/17 04:59 AM
Duet book series
by dat77. 09/18/17 10:27 PM
Wanamaker Baby Grand
by Ronny. 09/18/17 07:31 PM
Ivory II Italian Grand
by vmishka. 09/18/17 07:14 PM
Help Working Out Steel String Spec
by Lirika. 09/18/17 04:13 PM
Forum Statistics
Forums44
Topics181,927
Posts2,658,626
Members88,865
Most Online15,252
Mar 21st, 2010
(ad)
Accu-Tuner
Sanderson Accu-Tuner
Check It Out!
There's a lot more to Piano World than just the forums.
Click Here to
Explore The Rest of Piano World!!
Visit our online store for gifts for music lovers


 
Help keep the forums up and running with a donation, any amount is appreciated!
Or by becoming a Subscribing member! Thank-you.
Donate   Subscribe
 
Our Piano Related Classified Ads
| Dealers | Tuners | Lessons | Movers | Restorations | Pianos For Sale | Sell Your Piano |

Advertise on Piano World
| Subscribe | Piano World | PianoSupplies.com | Advertise on Piano World |
| |Contact | Privacy | Legal | About Us | Site Map | Free Newsletter |


copyright 1997 - 2017 Piano World ® all rights reserved
No part of this site may be reproduced without prior written permission
Powered by UBB.threads™ PHP Forum Software 7.6.0