Welcome to the Piano World Piano Forums
Over 2.5 million posts about pianos, digital pianos, and all types of keyboard instruments
Join the World's Largest Community of Piano Lovers (it's free)
It's Fun to Play the Piano ... Please Pass It On!

SEARCH
Piano Forums & Piano World
What's Hot!!
Posting Pictures on the Forums
-------------------
Forums RULES & HELP
-------------------
ADVERTISE on Piano World
(ad)
Piano Tuning
How to Tune Pianos
(125ad)
Piano Life Saver - Dampp Chaser
Dampp Chaser Piano Life Saver
(ad)
Piano Buyer Guide
Piano Buyer Spring 2017
(ad)
4th Finger Enigma Resolved!
Schumann's 4th Finger Enigma Resolved!
Who's Online Now
115 registered members (Almaviva, accordeur, aph123, Alex Hutor, amad23, 19 invisible), 1,972 guests, and 4 spiders.
Key: Admin, Global Mod, Mod
(ad)
Estonia Pianos
Estonia Pianos
Quick Links to Useful Piano & Music Resources
Our Classified Ads
Find Piano Professionals-

*Piano Dealers - Piano Stores
*Piano Tuners
*Piano Teachers
*Piano Movers
*Piano Restorations
*Piano Manufacturers

Quick Links:
*Advertise On Piano World
*Free Piano Newsletter
*Online Piano Recitals
*Piano Recitals Index
*Piano & Music Accessories
*Live Piano Venues
*Music School Listings
* Buying a Piano
*Buying A Acoustic Piano
*Buying a Digital Piano
*Pianos for Sale
*Sell Your Piano
*How Old is My Piano?
*Directory/Site Map
*Virtual Piano
*Music Word Search
*Piano Videos
*Virtual Piano Chords & Scales
Previous Thread
Next Thread
Print Thread
Page 2 of 4 1 2 3 4
#1985846 - 11/12/12 07:46 PM Re: Fazioli pianos [Re: Kugupiyano]  
Joined: May 2012
Posts: 7,439
Minnesota Marty Offline

Platinum Supporter until October 5 2014
Minnesota Marty  Offline

Platinum Supporter until October 5 2014


Joined: May 2012
Posts: 7,439
Rochester MN
This may, indeed, be the perfect PW thread.

Please keep in mind that the Estonia's were under the influence of *magic mushrooms.* I think that the Faziolis are influenced by something else before they self-deport.


Marty in Minnesota

It's much easier to bash a Steinway than it is to play one.
(ad)
Piano & Music Accessories
piano accessories music gifts tuning and moving equipment
#1985909 - 11/12/12 10:55 PM Re: Fazioli pianos [Re: Norbert]  
Joined: Mar 2010
Posts: 563
BerndAB Offline
500 Post Club Member
BerndAB  Offline
500 Post Club Member

Joined: Mar 2010
Posts: 563
Germany
Originally Posted by Norbert
Swiss research has meantime proven that the special wood used for Stradivarius had less to do with any one particular type wood but the influence of fungi [mushrooms] grown at a time of rather unique metereological conditions during same era.

http://www.aponet.de/aktuelles/kurioses/2012-09-pilz-laesst-geige-wie-stradivari-klingen.html



Norbert, THX to that link.

Some little corrections from the article in german language.. ;-) (if wanted, I could do a rough transation to EN?)

The fungi made the wooden cell structure thinner along of some years – but they kept the structure. Thinner cells but still stable.

The meteorolgical conditions of these years were not conneted with the special fungus but with the fact of very dense wood grown in a “little ice age” of that time. So the Stradivarius and Guarneri and Amati violin makers had wood available which was not unique because of the fungus but unique because of the trees (yet planted or grown up) then having standed the “little ice age” of that times, resulting in very dense circular structures of small cells et cetera in the sounding wood (many growth rings per inch).

If there were young trees planted within the "ice age", they would not have grown up. The precondition was to have the trees yet living - and then to have them "cool down" in the little ice age..

Conditions which sound irregular: you'll need to plant the "false" wood (for the environmental conditions) - and then let it grow slowly at "too cold" conditions.

Difficult.. Seems to be a process which maybe cannot be industrialized or exploited for best sound wood..

And we would have to evaluate/estimate how much of the "good sound content" is built-in by the fungus thinning the cellular walls, and how much "good sound content" is coming from the "little ice age" wood..

Last edited by BerndAB; 11/12/12 10:56 PM.

Pls excuse any bad english.

D 1877 satin black plain
#1985916 - 11/12/12 11:14 PM Re: Fazioli pianos [Re: BerndAB]  
Joined: Jan 2011
Posts: 558
Guapo Gabacho Offline
500 Post Club Member
Guapo Gabacho  Offline
500 Post Club Member

Joined: Jan 2011
Posts: 558
Rio Grande Valley of Texas
Originally Posted by BerndAB
Some little corrections from the article in german language..


Google does a great job on this interesting article:

Fungus can sound like Stradivari violin
You do not need millions of euros for an original Stradivarius violin spend to get this special sound. It is enough to treat the wood of a new instrument with special fungi.

Swiss wood researcher Professor Francis WMR Schwarze from St. Gallen has discovered fungi (Physisporinus vitreus and Xylaria longipes) that decompose the two major for violin making spruce and maple woods, so that their sound quality can be improved. The peculiarity of these fungi is to degrade the cell walls of the wood gradually and make thinner, Black said at a lecture at the Max Delbrück Center in Berlin. Even in the late stages of wood decay remains a rigid framework obtained via sound waves could still spread directly. The wood also remains the same as before the break-resistant fungal treatment.

DISPLAY
In a blind test was a violin made of treated wood against a genuine Stradivarius from 1711. With surprising results: Both the jury, as well as the majority of the audience thought the new violin for the genuine Stradivarius. "Of course, such a procedure is always subjective," admits Black. For euphony there is just no clear scientific measurement methods.

The famous violin maker Antonio Stradivari used during the late 17th and early 18th Century a particular wood that had grown during a cold period between 1645 and 1715. By long winters and cool summers, the wood grew very slowly and then, so it had a low density and a high flexural strength.

#1985918 - 11/12/12 11:16 PM Re: Fazioli pianos [Re: Kugupiyano]  
Joined: Aug 2011
Posts: 643
Chopinlover49 Offline
500 Post Club Member
Chopinlover49  Offline
500 Post Club Member

Joined: Aug 2011
Posts: 643
I think you can thank the tension resonator device, or spider, on the older Masons that still have some crown. I know there is no proof, but there seem to be a lot of them still holding up. If the soundboard is still good on my BB in 50 years, I won't know because I would be 113 years old then.

(ad ) MusicNotes.com
sheet music search
#1985925 - 11/12/12 11:27 PM Re: Fazioli pianos [Re: Kugupiyano]  
Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 25,426
BDB Offline
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member
BDB  Offline
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member

Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 25,426
Oakland
A friend of mine who makes violins and once brought a Strad to my house said that all these people who do research on the wood in them just do not want to admit that the guy knew what he was doing when he made violins.


Semipro Tech
#1986048 - 11/13/12 09:36 AM Re: Fazioli pianos [Re: Guapo Gabacho]  
Joined: Mar 2010
Posts: 563
BerndAB Offline
500 Post Club Member
BerndAB  Offline
500 Post Club Member

Joined: Mar 2010
Posts: 563
Germany
THX Guapo G.

I would have done same on demand ;-) , get a pre translation via google, and smoothen the result.

PLS Give me Istria wood and a water bassin with fungus. Then an experienced Cremona violin maker with some good ideas how to build up a piano soundboard from that fungus wood stuff - extremely thin but resistant.

Maybe to build up a wooden folio without crown, with no pre tensioning load on top of the crown against the string tension? And for this purpose to omit the zigzag pattern of a conventional bridge?

To use bridge agraffes for a flat membrane?

I don't know. But I would love to hear a result in my life time - on a veritable nine footer.

What about this australian guy who uses flat glass as a soundboard? to myknowledge with bridge agraffes.

or what about the carbon fibre sound board "Phoenix" from Florida?

or try similar with sound wood, the maybe-best ever? maybe hand picked Siberian wood, gained by helicopter harvesting..?..

I read a book of a Munich based violin maker who goes with a chainsaw and an axt and with a helping friend into the highest wood regions in the alps, where no machinery can go, to pickout HIS sound wood personally. They test the trees by applying the flat side of the axt,: how it sounds.

Then apply the "Perry Knize" speech: a tree dies. A piano (violin) is born.

Bring this wood down the hill by ultra hard work. A MUCH BIGGER effort to gain the best sound wood possible.., compared with industrialized harvesting in Canada, Alaska, Val di Fiemme.

Or am I wrong?


Pls excuse any bad english.

D 1877 satin black plain
#1986088 - 11/13/12 11:45 AM Re: Fazioli pianos [Re: Kugupiyano]  
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 1,555
Bob Newbie Offline
1000 Post Club Member
Bob Newbie  Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 1,555
Ah...! so its the fungus amongus!... smile

#1986113 - 11/13/12 12:26 PM Re: Fazioli pianos [Re: Kugupiyano]  
Joined: Sep 2011
Posts: 589
Thrill Science Offline
500 Post Club Member
Thrill Science  Offline
500 Post Club Member

Joined: Sep 2011
Posts: 589
California
The fit and finish of the Faziolis are beautiful. I looked at the 228 before I settled on my current Bösendorfer 225, and the piano looked better under the hood. Many of the parts are gold-plated, etc. (I don't know if this is "standard" or an option.)

However I preferred the mellower sound of the Bösendorfer. If you want a high-quality "bright" sound, I think the Fazioli is a good choice (and it's slightly cheaper than Bösendorfer :-) )

I wasn't able to compare them back-to-back, and I didn't pay much attention to the concert sizes when I was evaluating, because I was looking for something for the home.

(And greetings from Porto, Portugal! I'm here to hear a concert at the Casa De Musica; I'll be back in the states tomorrow if my flight isn't canceled because of the General Strike!)

Last edited by Thrill Science; 11/13/12 12:32 PM.

Robert Swirsky
Thrill Science, Inc.
#1986143 - 11/13/12 01:07 PM Re: Fazioli pianos [Re: Kugupiyano]  
Joined: Jul 2001
Posts: 15,295
Norbert Offline
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member
Norbert  Offline
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member

Joined: Jul 2001
Posts: 15,295
Surrey, B.C.
Faziolis are first class instruments, in some ways in a class of their own. You may like or not like their sound but fit and finish is incredible.

By same token,Ciresa soundboards, while also first rate, are not sufficiently unique to guarantee unique tone.

Several other makers including Sauter use them in some of their models, yet the pianos have entirely different sound characteristics.

[Linked Image]

Others like Steingraeber don't use Ciresa wood but their pianos are perhaps the closest to Fazili sound I know.

[Linked Image]

The conclusion I have long come to believe that it's not just one particular component that makes an instrument great similiarly as great grapes don't 'by themselves' make for a great wine.

It's the combination of many other factors, many of them a secret by maker.

This IMHO doesn't take away but adds to the mystique and beauty of something truly special such as the top pianos of the world.

Norbert smile

Last edited by Norbert; 11/13/12 01:24 PM.

www.heritagepianos.com
Greater Vancouver B.C. piano dealers for : Estonia, Brodmann, Ritmuller
604-951-8642 www.eliteheritagepianos.ca Edmonton, Alta dealers for Estonia,
Brodmann 780-405-8908
#1988872 - 11/20/12 10:13 AM Re: Fazioli pianos [Re: Kugupiyano]  
Joined: Mar 2008
Posts: 2,646
ClsscLib Offline

Platinum Supporter until Jan 02 2013
ClsscLib  Offline

Platinum Supporter until Jan 02 2013


Joined: Mar 2008
Posts: 2,646
Northern VA, U.S.
Wait... I thought we aren't supposed to buy "Mussolini pianos.". Or maybe that's iceberg lettuce. One gets confused these days...


[Linked Image] [Linked Image][Linked Image]

"People may say I can't sing, but no one can ever say I didn't sing."

-- Florence Foster Jenkins
#1988935 - 11/20/12 12:57 PM Re: Fazioli pianos [Re: dsch]  
Joined: Mar 2008
Posts: 1,671
RonaldSteinway Offline
1000 Post Club Member
RonaldSteinway  Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Joined: Mar 2008
Posts: 1,671
Originally Posted by dsch
Yamaha on steroids.


Cannot agree more!!!

It has a Yamaha touch, but better. Clean sound like Yamaha, but a little warmer. Overall, it is a great piano. But sound wise, I like Steinway.

#1988941 - 11/20/12 01:22 PM Re: Fazioli pianos [Re: Kugupiyano]  
Joined: Jan 2004
Posts: 1,278
Entheo Offline
1000 Post Club Member
Entheo  Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Joined: Jan 2004
Posts: 1,278
chicago, il
analogous to purchasing a rolls royce or a bentley one is not purchasing based on the performance of the vehicle alone but rather the beautiful hand-crafted nature of it. that and the status of owning one of course.

to my ear faziolis are very nice sounding pianos, a bit on the sweet side, and they are fantastic pieces of furniture (the fazioli heritage). there's no shame in spending one's money on one, IMHO.

#1992230 - 11/29/12 01:32 AM Re: Fazioli pianos [Re: Kugupiyano]  
Joined: Jul 2001
Posts: 15,295
Norbert Offline
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member
Norbert  Offline
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member

Joined: Jul 2001
Posts: 15,295
Surrey, B.C.
Interesting video re a German violin maker known for creating closest sound to Stradivarius: "it's not just one variable"...



Could pianos be that different?

It's obviously "in the wood" - but it ain't the only factor...

Norbert

Last edited by Norbert; 11/29/12 01:44 AM.

www.heritagepianos.com
Greater Vancouver B.C. piano dealers for : Estonia, Brodmann, Ritmuller
604-951-8642 www.eliteheritagepianos.ca Edmonton, Alta dealers for Estonia,
Brodmann 780-405-8908
#1992362 - 11/29/12 12:04 PM Re: Fazioli pianos [Re: Kugupiyano]  
Joined: Aug 2011
Posts: 643
Chopinlover49 Offline
500 Post Club Member
Chopinlover49  Offline
500 Post Club Member

Joined: Aug 2011
Posts: 643
When it comes to which component (s) affect the tone, I think it is partly magic. You can try three identical models of the same brand and they all sound a little different frequently. Why? One will often speak to you. Magic. (Ok, it can be the prep, the way the people at the factory were feeling when they installed this or that component--was it a hangover Monday or a delightful Tuesday, etc.) Seriously, I have no idea but it is fun to speculate isn't it?

#1992629 - 11/30/12 12:27 AM Re: Fazioli pianos [Re: Kugupiyano]  
Joined: Sep 2008
Posts: 325
dsch Offline
Full Member
dsch  Offline
Full Member

Joined: Sep 2008
Posts: 325
florida
It only seems magical but there are quantifiable reasons behind stunning sound: highly resonant soundboards, thick rims, tight tolerances, scaling, strings, hammer type and treatment, and more.

Each maker has a signature sound but there are wide variations under that umbrella.

I have an ear for the expensive ones. I wish that I didn't.

#1992669 - 11/30/12 03:34 AM Re: Fazioli pianos [Re: Kugupiyano]  
Joined: Jul 2001
Posts: 15,295
Norbert Offline
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member
Norbert  Offline
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member

Joined: Jul 2001
Posts: 15,295
Surrey, B.C.
Quote
I have an ear for the expensive ones. I wish that I didn't.


No sweat.

For those there always still are Rits and Brodmanns..

Norbert help


www.heritagepianos.com
Greater Vancouver B.C. piano dealers for : Estonia, Brodmann, Ritmuller
604-951-8642 www.eliteheritagepianos.ca Edmonton, Alta dealers for Estonia,
Brodmann 780-405-8908
#1992671 - 11/30/12 03:40 AM Re: Fazioli pianos [Re: Kugupiyano]  
Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 25,426
BDB Offline
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member
BDB  Offline
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member

Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 25,426
Oakland
Often the biggest difference between the best pianos and all but the worst is the setup and maintenance. There are a lot of excellent pianos that lose a lot of their qualities through neglect.


Semipro Tech
#1992729 - 11/30/12 09:25 AM Re: Fazioli pianos [Re: Kugupiyano]  
Joined: Nov 2009
Posts: 2,645
joe80 Online content
2000 Post Club Member
joe80  Online Content
2000 Post Club Member

Joined: Nov 2009
Posts: 2,645
Fazioli pianos, I agree, are perhaps the finest made pianos in existence. Their fit and finish is incredible, it's hard to fault them in many ways.

But, I agree, they sound a bit clinical. Very clear, yes, but somehow it feels like they lack in soul.

It's like, they are refined to the point of being useless. I prefer the ballsy sound of a Steinway.

#2005272 - 12/28/12 02:06 AM Re: Fazioli pianos [Re: Norbert]  
Joined: Mar 2007
Posts: 1,916
Dave Ferris Offline
1000 Post Club Member
Dave Ferris  Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Joined: Mar 2007
Posts: 1,916
Glendale, Ca.
I played a solo gig tonight for a post-Christmas party at a private residence. The owners had a 212 they purchased from Pierre Julia last year.
Really nice ! Clarity and sustain for days. A huge bass for a 7 'er too. The action was super responsive. I was actually able to execute some passages from the classical pieces, I do on these type of gigs, easier then my D.

Sound was helped immensely by a large living room with angled walls and a cathedral type ceiling too.

The finish wasn't your typical high gloss ebony but high gloss mahogany finish. I'm not usually a fan of mahogany but the fact it sounded so good made me forget about the finish... smile

I play a lot of super dog pianos in even some of the most expensive homes, so this was a treat. Definitely made the night go faster and more fun...even if I was just wallpaper. wink


https://soundcloud.com/dave-ferris

2005 NY Steinway D
Yamaha CP4, CP5
#2005526 - 12/28/12 01:43 PM Re: Fazioli pianos [Re: bfeils]  
Joined: May 2006
Posts: 1,756
AJF Offline
1000 Post Club Member
AJF  Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Joined: May 2006
Posts: 1,756
Toronto
Originally Posted by bfeils
Makes me want spaghetti.



That's like saying a Steinway makes you want Mac 'n Cheese.
Think bigger--like Provimi veal scallopini in a white wine and truffle sauce:)



Pianist, Composer
Disclaimer: Shigeru Kawai Artist
#2011600 - 01/09/13 09:17 AM Re: Fazioli pianos [Re: Kugupiyano]  
Joined: Jun 2010
Posts: 48
belsha Offline
Full Member
belsha  Offline
Full Member

Joined: Jun 2010
Posts: 48
Paris, France
I recently could compare side by side my own 1979 Hamburg Steinway B after it was completely refurbished (new mechanic and strings, but original soundboard) to a few Fazioli 212's at the shop that did the work on my piano. Somebody had seen my Steinway there by chance and wanted to buy it at an excellent price, for which basically I could have gotten a used year 2k F212 for exchange or a 2006 F212 that basically just hung around in the shop for a little extra cash. My 1979 Steinway B definitively was a lot better than the year 2000 Fazioli, but with the newer one it was a tough call (I resisted the temptation, though). In a sense, the Fazioli is the better — read, more modern, more technically advanced - piano. Most notable, even the 211cm Model B Steinway has a dead spot in the lower medium (i.e. the passage from the coiled to the uncoiled strings). Quiet a surprise to me for such a big piano, since I had gotten used to my (much older) Steinway D. Well, the Fazioli doesn't have that problem, it is much more even across the keyboard than the Steinway, and generally quiet a bit more powerful. But then, yes, the Steinway has a more complex, subtle, rich sound than the Fazioli, which is more straightforward, clean and clear-cut (I must say, without bragging, than my Model B is a particularly nice model and particularly well restored, better than most new models you would pick at the Hamburg Factory.)

My father had a 183cm Fazioli bought in the late 80's. It was a wonderful piano — clearly superior to any brand at that size — incredibly expressive, nuanced, with very round, singing tone, capable of an incredible dynamic range. But again, it maybe all was a little too much: that piano was build for projection, projection, projection, to be able to rival a much longer piano in a concert hall. As a result, it was quiet a nuisance to play even in a very large apartment, the sound would cause extreme reflections, echo, and thus muddle on nearly any surface. Building the most powerful piano possible at the smallest size possible doesn't seem the best of ideas to me : I actually would prefer a larger, less powerful piano, but with a richer palette, more balance (that would be a Boesendorfer....).

The description of the Fazioli as a "Super-Yamaha" many people came up with has also been my impression. Nothing wrong with that, Yamaha do make excellent pianos, and many at a far lower price ! (It could be interesting to compare the Faziolis with the new Yamaha CFX series pianos, they might be quiet similar).


1950 Hamburg Steinway Model D
1980 Hamburg Steinway Model B
"Galaxy Vintage D" on my laptop when travelling (amazing sample of the 1930 Steinway D at Bauer Tonstudios, Germany) Almost feels like home!
#2011623 - 01/09/13 10:15 AM Re: Fazioli pianos [Re: Kugupiyano]  
Joined: Oct 2010
Posts: 9,650
bennevis Online content
9000 Post Club Member
bennevis  Online Content
9000 Post Club Member

Joined: Oct 2010
Posts: 9,650
I play both the Fazioli F278 and the Yamaha CFX quite a lot, but they are chalk and cheese. The CFX has quite a brilliant tone when pushed, and is generally brighter than the F278, brighter also at the top than the CF-IIIS it replaces. The Fazioli has a rather more balanced sound across its whole keyboard, but is less 'colorful' than the Yamaha overall. In fact, the CFX is even more colorful, with very strong overtones at forte and beyond, than the Steinway D in many ways.

If you haven't heard the sound of the CFX, have a look at Youtube videos of HJ Lim, who's recorded the Beethoven Sonatas on the CFX.


"I don't play accurately - anyone can play accurately - but I play with wonderful expression. As far as the piano is concerned, sentiment is my forte. I keep science for Life."
#2012026 - 01/10/13 02:41 AM Re: Fazioli pianos [Re: Entheo]  
Joined: Jun 2010
Posts: 48
belsha Offline
Full Member
belsha  Offline
Full Member

Joined: Jun 2010
Posts: 48
Paris, France
Originally Posted by Entheo
analogous to purchasing a rolls royce or a bentley one is not purchasing based on the performance of the vehicle alone but rather the beautiful hand-crafted nature of it. that and the status of owning one of course.

to my ear faziolis are very nice sounding pianos, a bit on the sweet side, and they are fantastic pieces of furniture (the fazioli heritage). there's no shame in spending one's money on one, IMHO.


That's just complete non-sense. As a piece of furniture, a Fazioli or Steinway is strictly identical to a Yamaha, or even a Young Chang or Wendl&Lung. The difference is the sound, the dynamics, the action, and possibly the durability. So no, these pianos are purchased based on the "performance" alone, and not the "beautiful hand-crafted nature of it".

Last edited by belsha; 01/10/13 02:50 AM.

1950 Hamburg Steinway Model D
1980 Hamburg Steinway Model B
"Galaxy Vintage D" on my laptop when travelling (amazing sample of the 1930 Steinway D at Bauer Tonstudios, Germany) Almost feels like home!
#2012030 - 01/10/13 02:47 AM Re: Fazioli pianos [Re: bennevis]  
Joined: Jun 2010
Posts: 48
belsha Offline
Full Member
belsha  Offline
Full Member

Joined: Jun 2010
Posts: 48
Paris, France
Originally Posted by bennevis
In fact, the CFX is even more colorful, with very strong overtones at forte and beyond, than the Steinway D in many ways.

If you haven't heard the sound of the CFX, have a look at Youtube videos of HJ Lim, who's recorded the Beethoven Sonatas on the CFX.


Thanks for the link ! I've never heard a CFX nor played one before. i'm surprised how metallic and shrill this piano can be, and how muffled but not really singing and warm in the softer passages. I had thought that Yamaha was aiming for a more european sound with their new models, this disappointed me a little. Of course this has a lot to do with prepping, mic placement and interpretation. Actually I recall having just barely tested one of their smaller CF models, and thought it was quite harsh, rather stiff too, and think I prefer their smoother, more flexible, warmer S series pianos.

So thumbs up to Fazioli for me on this one !

You must remember that these top-end Yamaha pianos sell at the same price as Faziolis or Steinways.


1950 Hamburg Steinway Model D
1980 Hamburg Steinway Model B
"Galaxy Vintage D" on my laptop when travelling (amazing sample of the 1930 Steinway D at Bauer Tonstudios, Germany) Almost feels like home!
#2012048 - 01/10/13 03:44 AM Re: Fazioli pianos [Re: Kugupiyano]  
Joined: Jul 2001
Posts: 15,295
Norbert Offline
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member
Norbert  Offline
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member

Joined: Jul 2001
Posts: 15,295
Surrey, B.C.
I have played Faziolis as far back as 25 years ago when I first saw them at Fischer pianos in Stuttgart Germany.

The ones I have played during the last few trade shows were all quite different from each other making it difficult to unify them under one single description.

While this is true for most makes, the noted variation did take me somewhat by some surprise.

Perhaps it's my hearing as one grows older...am hearing same including our own pianos too...

Norbert wink

Last edited by Norbert; 01/10/13 03:48 AM.

www.heritagepianos.com
Greater Vancouver B.C. piano dealers for : Estonia, Brodmann, Ritmuller
604-951-8642 www.eliteheritagepianos.ca Edmonton, Alta dealers for Estonia,
Brodmann 780-405-8908
#2012061 - 01/10/13 04:35 AM Re: Fazioli pianos [Re: belsha]  
Joined: Oct 2010
Posts: 10
worldlinerai Offline
Junior Member
worldlinerai  Offline
Junior Member

Joined: Oct 2010
Posts: 10
5-pts Island
Originally Posted by belsha
Originally Posted by Entheo
to my ear faziolis are very nice sounding pianos, a bit on the sweet side, and they are fantastic pieces of furniture (the fazioli heritage). there's no shame in spending one's money on one, IMHO.


That's just complete non-sense. As a piece of furniture, a Fazioli or Steinway is strictly identical to a Yamaha, or even a Young Chang or Wendl&Lung. The difference is the sound, the dynamics, the action, and possibly the durability. So no, these pianos are purchased based on the "performance" alone, and not the "beautiful hand-crafted nature of it".


Some people who don't play piano will not understand the difference between a $150K and a $15K piano. Even my parents think a Yamaha C-Series is equivalent to a Steinway with only price and name brand being the difference. These people seriously have to sit in front of the piano to hear the difference.

As for Fazioli's, which I can understand why people would love it, I find it too bright for my taste. The clarity is so sharp that it kind of stings my ears.


Forever, we can make it.
#2012709 - 01/11/13 11:40 AM Re: Fazioli pianos [Re: Kugupiyano]  
Joined: Nov 2005
Posts: 1,084
Numerian Offline
1000 Post Club Member
Numerian  Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Joined: Nov 2005
Posts: 1,084
I doubt it is the clarity that is stinging your ears. It may be the loudness of the instrument, or as you say the many reverberations of the sound in a small apartment. Usually noises described as "stinging" or "irritating" come from discordance produced by partials that are not in tune (such as with the aliquots). I hope I am expressing this correctly, but the "killer octave" is well know for producing such irritations.

When Belsha talks about his father's piano causing unpleasant sounds, I'll bet you anything the father is not hearing these sounds the same way Belsha is. You lose some parts of your hearing at age 50 and progressively more as you age. You can have a real problem if you had a job that caused hearing loss when you were younger. I've told this story before on the Forum, but I went almost two years trying to get my technician to "fix" my Fazioli. It had started to sound too loud, too piercing, etc. It was causing tinnitus in my ears. Voicing, changing the hammers, and other things didn't help. Then I discovered that one of the medicines I was taking during this time caused tinnitus as a side effect for some patients. I stopped the medicine, the tinnitus went away, and the Fazioli sounded wonderful again. Considering how many medicines people take routinely these days (for cholesterol control, blood pressure, obesity, etc.), it is not surprising we get such different reactions from different people to the same instrument.

I noticed Norbert in a comment above is starting to appreciate the importance of one's hearing in determining which instruments are suitable and which are not. The unfortunate thing is that we all then extrapolate from the personal and condemn or praise the entire brand of instruments.

#2012740 - 01/11/13 12:41 PM Re: Fazioli pianos [Re: belsha]  
Joined: May 2003
Posts: 2,550
RealPlayer Online content
2000 Post Club Member
RealPlayer  Online Content
2000 Post Club Member

Joined: May 2003
Posts: 2,550
NYC
Originally Posted by belsha
Originally Posted by Entheo
analogous to purchasing a rolls royce or a bentley one is not purchasing based on the performance of the vehicle alone but rather the beautiful hand-crafted nature of it. that and the status of owning one of course.

to my ear faziolis are very nice sounding pianos, a bit on the sweet side, and they are fantastic pieces of furniture (the fazioli heritage). there's no shame in spending one's money on one, IMHO.


That's just complete non-sense. As a piece of furniture, a Fazioli or Steinway is strictly identical to a Yamaha, or even a Young Chang or Wendl&Lung. The difference is the sound, the dynamics, the action, and possibly the durability. So no, these pianos are purchased based on the "performance" alone, and not the "beautiful hand-crafted nature of it".


I would dispute this. It sounds like a denial that pieces of furniture can differ in quality and craftsmanship. And the "furniture" aspect of the piano, often called "fit and finish," is absolutely considered when assessing the piano's overall quality.

#2012761 - 01/11/13 01:27 PM Re: Fazioli pianos [Re: belsha]  
Joined: Jan 2004
Posts: 1,278
Entheo Offline
1000 Post Club Member
Entheo  Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Joined: Jan 2004
Posts: 1,278
chicago, il
Originally Posted by belsha
Originally Posted by Entheo
analogous to purchasing a rolls royce or a bentley one is not purchasing based on the performance of the vehicle alone but rather the beautiful hand-crafted nature of it. that and the status of owning one of course.

to my ear faziolis are very nice sounding pianos, a bit on the sweet side, and they are fantastic pieces of furniture (the fazioli heritage). there's no shame in spending one's money on one, IMHO.


That's just complete non-sense. As a piece of furniture, a Fazioli or Steinway is strictly identical to a Yamaha, or even a Young Chang or Wendl&Lung. The difference is the sound, the dynamics, the action, and possibly the durability. So no, these pianos are purchased based on the "performance" alone, and not the "beautiful hand-crafted nature of it".


then i daresay you know nothing about the fazioli heritage or its build process, nor the many reasons (sound being only one) that someone would spend that much money on a piano.

#2012823 - 01/11/13 02:47 PM Re: Fazioli pianos [Re: belsha]  
Joined: May 2001
Posts: 22,673
pianoloverus Online content
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member
pianoloverus  Online Content
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member

Joined: May 2001
Posts: 22,673
New York City
Originally Posted by belsha
Originally Posted by Entheo
to my ear faziolis are very nice sounding pianos, a bit on the sweet side, and they are fantastic pieces of furniture (the fazioli heritage). there's no shame in spending one's money on one, IMHO.


That's just complete non-sense. As a piece of furniture, a Fazioli or Steinway is strictly identical to a Yamaha, or even a Young Chang or Wendl&Lung. The difference is the sound, the dynamics, the action, and possibly the durability. So no, these pianos are purchased based on the "performance" alone, and not the "beautiful hand-crafted nature of it".
The quality, beauty, and technical aspects of the finish vary tremendously on different make pianos. Even the style of the case and plate vary although not so much if one buys the basic "contemporary" version.

Page 2 of 4 1 2 3 4

Moderated by  Ken Knapp, Piano World 

Piano Acc. & Gift Items in
Piano World's Online Store
In PianoSupplies.com ,(a division of Piano World)
our online store for piano and music gifts and accessories, Digital Piano Dolly, party goods, tuning equipment, piano moving equipment, benches, lamps Caster Cups and more.


Free Shipping* on Jansen Artist Piano Benches, Cocoweb Piano Lamps, Hidrau Hydraulic Piano Benches
(*free shipping within contiguous U.S. only)
(ad)
Pearl River & Ritmuller
Ritmuller Pianos
(ad)
Pianoteq
PianoTeq 6 Out now
(ad)
Lindeblad Piano
Lindeblad Piano Restorations and sales
ad
Pierce Piano Atlas


New Topics - Multiple Forums
Roland D-05
by TonyB. 10/22/17 01:24 PM
New Roland FP30 with an annoying detail =(
by Pianero. 10/22/17 12:51 PM
Where do you rate Sauter pianos ?
by Fazioli-Yang. 10/22/17 12:24 PM
Sostenuto Pedal technique
by Colin Miles. 10/22/17 11:49 AM
Messiaen - Vingt Regards
by Eric NYC. 10/22/17 10:59 AM
Forum Statistics
Forums44
Topics182,423
Posts2,666,439
Members89,015
Most Online15,252
Mar 21st, 2010
(ad)
Accu-Tuner
Sanderson Accu-Tuner
Check It Out!
There's a lot more to Piano World than just the forums.
Click Here to
Explore The Rest of Piano World!!
Visit our online store for gifts for music lovers


 
Help keep the forums up and running with a donation, any amount is appreciated!
Or by becoming a Subscribing member! Thank-you.
Donate   Subscribe
 
Our Piano Related Classified Ads
| Dealers | Tuners | Lessons | Movers | Restorations | Pianos For Sale | Sell Your Piano |

Advertise on Piano World
| Subscribe | Piano World | PianoSupplies.com | Advertise on Piano World |
| |Contact | Privacy | Legal | About Us | Site Map | Free Newsletter |


copyright 1997 - 2017 Piano World ® all rights reserved
No part of this site may be reproduced without prior written permission
Powered by UBB.threads™ PHP Forum Software 7.6.0