Piano World Home Page Forums Our Most Popular Forums Adult Beginners Forum Themed recital - the BIG ONE!

I'm a little worried about my pieces, especially the second one I picked up --85/1. I think I will have to memorize it in order to play it as the left hand really moves along, but I don't know how I will memorize it! I know I should focus on small bits at a time, but all of the piece needs so much work, it's hard not to want to work on all of it all the time!

If there are any left, can you assign me to a pretty easy one? I like Mendelssohn very much, but don`t know all his stuff!

peterws, Op38/4 is the only manageable piece left at present. Make sure it appeals before you put your name to it.
'Pretty easy' is a relative term and I don't know what else you play.
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Valencia, I deduce from your post that memorising is not your modus operandi. This is a two page piece and doesn't need to be memorised. There's no page turning here.

Have you analysed this piece in any detail?

You might need to decide early on whether you're going to adopt the recommended fingering or as I would do, take the first two LH notes in 5-1 then the next four in 5-4-2-1 or 5-3-2-1. You might vary it throughout the score but my first step would be to cement the fingering for each bar individually over the first couple of days.

It's like a date, remember, fingering first!

The timing strategy you adopt for the second half of M3 you should be using throughout (i.e. wherever it occurs (M8, 11, 18, etc) and especially 34).

I get the climax in M22 so the section M17-25 would be the first port of call for me. M23-25 are not difficult so get them out of the way first, let's say day 1. M17-19 on day 2 (however long these days turns out to be), M19-21 on day 3 and M17-25 on day 4. During those "4" days (could be 14 - it doesn't matter just complete each bit before moving on) play once or twice through the section HS before settling down to HT practise of your days quota of two or three measures. This phrase can then be repeated as a unit two or three times (dead slow, medium, slow) each day until all your phrases have been done.

As soon as your fingers feel like they're getting this and they're going to increase the tempo, get your metronome out and train to them to maintain tempo at a speed that prevents mistakes.

Remember if you want to get this up to speed that you must practise it slowly. Put the speed in HS and you won't screw it up when your hands are ready to fly. Disregard the deadline completely. When it comes along record at the tempo you're at. Just accept it at that speed, don't try to play at a predetermined speed and expect your playing to catch up. It doesn't work like that.

The left hand really moving along may sound fast before you can actually play it but, trust me, it's not that fast once it's in your fingers. Chill.

Next phrase for me would be M30-39. I wasn't sure, audiating, whether the climax came here or in M22 but it didn't take many actual plays through to determine. But this phrase is a little trickier for me. Again M36-39 are relatively easy and can be sorted out first. Then take your time on M33-36. Just take it dead slow and have every key covered before you play it. When you know the notes and don't have to think the tempo will suddenly come up. And again, once you've got this play it each day after M17-25.

You should have essentially 'cracked' the piece at this stage. The rest is the same thing but with different notes plus the last few easy measures.

I get M17-25, M30-39, M1-5, M6-10, M10-13, M14-17, M40-50 and finally, to avoid joining the two difficult sections too soon, M25-29. Once all these are playable individually against a slow metronome I would take M1-17, M17-25, M25-39 and M40-50.

Don't put pressure on yourself. My guess is that once you've cracked those first two sections you could pretty much play this piece from the score without any major upsets (but don't!).

It`s a lovely piece, I`d be chuffed to play that!

It's like a date, remember, fingering first! . . heh heh you must be my age, lad!

I`ve indicated to ZRTF90 that I`ll be OK for op38-4. Just to let ya know, if that`s ok by you, Cheers Pete

I didn't feel quite ready for the time machine yet, for the sections where I have somewhat of a handle on all the notes/chords. But, after reading this post I decided to give it a whirl.

I am delighted to say it was positively enlightening. Areas where I was having the most difficulty was mostly due to incorrect counting/timing which is corrected now and back on track. I should have done this sooner.

Nowhere near the promised land yet, but I can at least envision it on the horizon.

A truly motivational and uplifting breakthrough.

Added you peterws, thanx

Book 1, op. 19b (1829–1830)
No. 1 Andante con moto in E major - Dipsy
No. 2 Andante espressivo in A minor - ragnhildK
No. 3 Molto allegro e vivace in A major - Evelyn S
No. 4 Moderato in A major - Devrie
No. 5 Poco agitato in F-sharp minor - Ganddalf
No. 6 Andante sostenuto in G minor - Recaredo

Book 2, op. 30 (1833–1834)
No. 1 Andante espressivo in E-flat major - Valencia
No. 2 Allegro di molto in B-flat minor
No. 3 Adagio non troppo in E major - PianoStudent88
No. 4 Agitato e con fuoco in B minor -DanS
No. 5 Andante grazioso in D major - Beric
No. 6 Allegretto tranquillo in F-sharp minor - LimeFriday

Book 3, op. 38 (1836–1837)
No. 1 Con moto in E-flat major - dire tonic
No. 2 Allegro non troppo in C minor - ROSSY
No. 3 Presto e molto vivace in E major
No. 4 Andante in A major - peterws
No. 5 Agitato in A minor
No. 6 Andante con moto in A-flat major - Sam S

Book 4, op. 53 (1839–1841)
No. 1 Andante con moto in A-flat major - IreneAdler
No. 2 Allegro non troppo in E-flat major - Ganddalf
No. 3 Presto agitato in G minor
No. 4 Adagio in F major - WiseBuff
No. 5 Allegro con fuoco in A minor - Sam S
No. 6 Molto Allegro vivace in A major -DanS

Book 5, op. 62 (1842–1844)
No. 1 Andante espressivo in G major - ZRTF90
No. 2 Allegro con fuoco in B-flat major
No. 3 Andante maestoso in E minor - ZRTF90
No. 4 Allegro con anima in G major
No. 5 Andante con moto in A minor - LimeFriday
No. 6 Allegretto grazioso in A major

Book 6, op. 67 (1843–1845)
No. 1 Andante in E-flat major - timmyab
No. 2 Allegro leggiero in F-sharp minor - dire tonic
No. 3 Andante tranquillo in B-flat major - timmyab
No. 4 Presto in C major
No. 5 Moderato in B minor - Pavel.K
No. 6 Allegro non troppo in E major

Book 7, op. 85 (1834–1845)
No. 1 Andante espressivo in F major - Valencia
No. 2 Allegro agitato in A minor - Wayne33yrs
No. 3 Presto in E-flat major
No. 4 Andante sostenuto in D major - Rupak Bhattacharya
No. 5 Allegretto in A major
No. 6 Allegretto con moto in B-flat major

Book 8, op. 102 (1842–1845)
No. 1 Andante un poco agitato in E minor - Greener
No. 2 Adagio in D major - FarmGirl
No. 3 Presto in C major - AimeeO
No. 4 Un poco agitato, ma andante in G minor - LadyChen
No. 5 Allegro vivace in A major
No. 6 Andante in C major - Greener

Richard, thank you so much for your post. It is extremely helpful. I just did a little practicing as you suggested, focusing only on those few bars (22-25). It will take me more than a day though to get them into my head and fingers. My head is thick when it comes to memorizing. I'd love to memorize everything, but find it extremely challenging for many pieces.

I spent 20-25 min going over those bars just now. The fingering was tricky with the RH (the shifts in fingers while on the same note). Also, I needed to figure out which notes in the triplets to play with the RH. So sussing all that out took some time. But today I felt like i was actually practicing, instead of just going over the piece again and again and getting nowhere. I do think it will take me several days to get those bars into my head though.

I tried a similar approach to the 30/1 this afternoon, focusing on bars 32-35, and then with my Rach prelude (32/12) bars 1-8. Each of those little sections, in all of those pieces, needs so much work!

I'm glad it was helpful, Valencia.

Changing the fingers can be tricky if you don't practise it as a specific movement. If you're changing from 3 to 4 on the first F in M23, RH, for example, practise just that half bar with the change occuring on the second LH triplet. Practise each of those half bars up to the first note in each hand of the next beat (seven triplets in LH, three quavers in RH).

At about 1 to 2 seconds per triplet you should be able to practise each half bar 7-10 times in two or three minutes each and do two measures in 15-20 minutes, mark it in your journal then move on to another piece. After ten reps sleep should do more than further practise. Give it a try, record your progress and see how you do.

Because the half bars are so much shorter they'll be easier to memorise, too. When the half measures are fluent join them up to whole bars, then two bars, etc.

It's not important how long this takes you because you're acquiring technique that will be useful throughout the piece. Be patient with yourself and don't chase deadlines. The rest of the piece will flow much more smoothly.

Reporting in: I have got my piece all memorized, and tied together, and able to play at a not-too-unreasonable tempo, with dynamics and pedal.

There is a section which usually messes me up when I try to increase the tempo with the metronome, though. But I find that only practicing that section doesn't obviously bring improvement, because the problem happens when I try to combine it with other sections. Very puzzling. I think I need to practice thinking ahead to that section while I'm playing the other sections, so I'll be ready for it. Or maybe playing into that section from other sections, but only one chord in. And then backing up and playing up to two chords in, and so on. Or maybe I need to overpractice just that one section after all, and bring it up to a tempo quite a bit faster than I ultimately plan to play it. So many possibilities...

Also, from playing the piece very slowly as I was learning it, it actually sounds quite reasonable to me at a very slow, slower-than-Lento, pace (judging by the metronome markings in the Satie Gymnopédies), but this piece is supposed to be Adagio. I know tempo is contextual, but this puzzles me.

Finally, I'm only making sporadic progress at reliably voicing the melody, so I think I need to make up some exercises for myself and just practice voicing all alone, separate from this piece (since this kind of separate practice seems to be an M.O. that works for me). Perhaps playing well-voiced triads and seventh chords up and down the scale.

Wayne, that piece o` Mendels .. .op38/4; really really lovely! Enjoying putting it together, it was a good choice for my capabilities. Cheers, man!

Firstly, it doesn't mess you up - you do the messing up. Secondly, don't try to increase the tempo. You will know when you can play it faster - though you may need some experience to know when you know!

The metronome doesn't speed you up; this is a common misconception. Playing slowly speeds you up! The metronome is to keep you in time at a tempo slow enough that you can play error free.

Increase the metronome when it's holding you up. Don't increase the metronome and try to keep up with it.

When you first learn a piece you may need to play at an inordinately slow tempo in order to practise moving every finger individually into place (micro-control). As the muscular actions become familiar they can be done more fluidly as a sequence or series of actions (macro-control) and the tempo will not gradually climb but jump up.

With continued slow practise the movements will gradually become automatic, without you consciously having to think or plan the sequences. At this stage the tempo will again jump up (sub-conscious control) and the brain can instead be actively monitoring the fine detail in expression, phrasing and so on.

If you use the metronome frequently you may find that at the first stage you are playing too slowly to need a metronome then suddenly you find yourself fluent. At this point you can start using the metronome to control your tempo until you can play faster.

I find that I plod along at half tempo for a good while but once I start 'getting it' the tempo goes from half speed to recital speed in a day or two.

The typical method of using a metronome is to drop back a couple of clicks when you start introducing errors - not play at that too fast rate until you get it. In other words, you practise at a slower tempo than you can play. What is not often realised is that playing below even that speed has exactly the same effect but with the reduced possibility of introducing errors.

If you're struggling to raise the pulse on one of your pieces, try setting the metronome slower for a week and try again at the weekend. Going from 108 bpm to 120 isn't done by pushing on to 112 bpm but by dropping back to 96 bpm.

Playing faster isn't about pushing the boundaries, it's about putting in the repetitions without error.

Richard, hope you don't mind but I have copied that post onto my computer for future reference. That is the most detailed description yet! I was doing it all wrong!

Thank you! +1!!!!

Thanks again Richard for the tip about working on half a bar at a time. I did that today for measures 22-25 and got quite close to being able to play them through from memory, which is encouraging. I'll keep working away like this at the sections and try not to worry about any deadline for the recital.

Richard, thank you for the clarifications and explanations! Must. curb. my. impatience.

I'm glad your happy with your choice peterws

Richard, thnx for helping everyone out, you're a star

Book 1, op. 19b (1829–1830)
No. 1 Andante con moto in E major - Dipsy
No. 2 Andante espressivo in A minor - ragnhildK
No. 3 Molto allegro e vivace in A major - Evelyn S
No. 4 Moderato in A major - Devrie
No. 5 Poco agitato in F-sharp minor - Ganddalf
No. 6 Andante sostenuto in G minor - Recaredo

Book 2, op. 30 (1833–1834)
No. 1 Andante espressivo in E-flat major - Valencia
No. 2 Allegro di molto in B-flat minor
No. 3 Adagio non troppo in E major - PianoStudent88
No. 4 Agitato e con fuoco in B minor -DanS
No. 5 Andante grazioso in D major - Beric
No. 6 Allegretto tranquillo in F-sharp minor - LimeFriday

Book 3, op. 38 (1836–1837)
No. 1 Con moto in E-flat major - dire tonic
No. 2 Allegro non troppo in C minor - ROSSY
No. 3 Presto e molto vivace in E major
No. 4 Andante in A major - peterws
No. 5 Agitato in A minor
No. 6 Andante con moto in A-flat major - Sam S

Book 4, op. 53 (1839–1841)
No. 1 Andante con moto in A-flat major - IreneAdler
No. 2 Allegro non troppo in E-flat major - Ganddalf
No. 3 Presto agitato in G minor
No. 4 Adagio in F major - WiseBuff
No. 5 Allegro con fuoco in A minor - Sam S
No. 6 Molto Allegro vivace in A major -DanS

Book 5, op. 62 (1842–1844)
No. 1 Andante espressivo in G major - ZRTF90
No. 2 Allegro con fuoco in B-flat major
No. 3 Andante maestoso in E minor - ZRTF90
No. 4 Allegro con anima in G major
No. 5 Andante con moto in A minor - LimeFriday
No. 6 Allegretto grazioso in A major

Book 6, op. 67 (1843–1845)
No. 1 Andante in E-flat major - timmyab
No. 2 Allegro leggiero in F-sharp minor - dire tonic
No. 3 Andante tranquillo in B-flat major - timmyab
No. 4 Presto in C major
No. 5 Moderato in B minor - Pavel.K
No. 6 Allegro non troppo in E major

Book 7, op. 85 (1834–1845)
No. 1 Andante espressivo in F major - Valencia
No. 2 Allegro agitato in A minor - Wayne33yrs
No. 3 Presto in E-flat major
No. 4 Andante sostenuto in D major - Rupak Bhattacharya
No. 5 Allegretto in A major
No. 6 Allegretto con moto in B-flat major

Book 8, op. 102 (1842–1845)
No. 1 Andante un poco agitato in E minor - Greener
No. 2 Adagio in D major - FarmGirl
No. 3 Presto in C major - AimeeO
No. 4 Un poco agitato, ma andante in G minor - LadyChen
No. 5 Allegro vivace in A major
No. 6 Andante in C major - Greener

Come on guys, just 13 peices left, would be great to get them all covered by PW world members...... how about anyone from the Mr.S.H crew?

or the non-member lurkers...... get yourselves registered and signed up, it's really a great experience

I have a vague feeling that this has been discussed here earlier, but I couldn't find anything by quick browsing in this rather long thread. Is it a requirement to have video recordings of our performance? This complicates matters a bit for me, as the only video recording device I have gives poor sound quality, while my Zoom sound recorder gives quite good sound, but no pictures.
What are you other participants using? I could consider acquiring a new video recorder, but it shouldn't be too expensive. Any suggestions?

You could merge the audio from your Zoom device, and the video from your camera, together using windows movie maker Or just make a picture slide-show like Recaredo does, or purchase a new video camera, it's entirely up to you

Hi Ganddalf, I believe there are a few people in the same boat. Me for one, with no video. The good news is ... looks like there are some easy work-arounds. Yes, there was some previous discussion and I have dug up a few notes from this, that follow here ...