Piano World Home Page Forums Our Most Popular Forums Piano Forum Seduction of Shigeru Kawai action

I agree. I was going to post that, but you beat me too it ... and said it well.

I think the performer's view differs from the (passive) listener's view. A performer (and perhaps an informed listener) can appreciate what Jethro and Norbert have said. But the uninitiated listener cannot.

Kindly show this objective and "very convincing.." demonstrations that proves "Shigeru Kawai action do repeat faster than any other action made." and is the "..softest playing" aka most dynamic action ever produced. I do not want to start a :t: war but WOW that is some kind of an acclaim.

(Whooow, I would love to see the fireworks fly if I said a similar statement about the NY improved accelerated action in a Steinway model "D")

Edit: I mustn't get emotions involved

Renner is an OEM company. They will build parts for a manufacturer to said manufactures specifications and quality level.

Not all Renner parts are created equal. The quality of the woods, felts, glues etc.. all vary depending on what the piano company requires and requests.

I sell a $10,000 6 foot Kohler grand with a "Renner" action in it.

Do you think this action is of the same quality level as the very high end European brands who use Renner parts? Definitely not,.Some of those actions could cost as much as the entire piano does.

Selling Renner parts, many times, is just selling the "sizzle" to a customer.

We have slow motion films showing the Millennium III action repeating reliably in full depth key strokes at 15 repetitions per second. There is no other grand piano action made which can reliably do this. And yes, we have tested all of the best. 12 per second is generally as fast as they get.

Unfortunately I am only allowed to show the slow motion films in seminars, and cannot distribute them. I believe there are some on this forum who have seen them, though, as I have presented my seminar on this action design all over North America since 2004.

Of course, pianists generally can play only 10 -12 repetitions per second or so, so the benefit may not be appreciated. Personally, I see the advantage as a type of performance "headroom." One aspect of this headroom is that the action will still repeat well, even after the regulation has settled away from original specifications.

As for playing softly, if you read what you quoted from my earlier post you will see that I did not claim any kind of superiority, only that the action is optimized for playing at the softest levels. By this I mean that the action has design features which make it easy to play softly. This soft playing control is the most common atribute of the action for which we receive complements.

Action saturation is also a quantifiable parameter, and is measured by showing the hammer speed in relation to the key speed on a chart. All actions have a limit to how much energy they can transfer from the key to the hammer, and this can be measured with the appropriate equipment. The resulting curve of input / output speed is quite revealing, and relates directly to the feeling of responsiveness in the action, as well as the maximum power output. Pretty much all high quality piano actions have a high enough limit to satisfy pianists, but some are definitely higher than others. The Millennium-III action is capable of very high energy transfer - but I do not claim any kind of superiority here, as I have not seen data on the tests of the actions from other brands.

I always accept that some people will not like a piano for reasons of personal taste and preference. Some aspects of action design, though, can be quantified. I apologize if this sounds too much like marketing.

I'm sure Kawai's tests comparing it's action performance to others is very interesting, however, it's unfortunate the tests were not performed by an unbiased third party.

And I must ask, if this data is conclusive and quantifiable why is it forbiden to "distribute" it anywhere other than your seminars?

Anyone is welcome to do the test! Find a truly unbiased third party to do it, we'll prep one of our actions, and you can get the other company to prep theirs! Sounds like fun.

The films are not distributed because other manufacturers would make use of them without having to put out the effort and spend the money to make them. Come to one of my sessions, and I'll be glad to show them to you, and show you the data on film frame rate so that you can verify the repetition speed for yourself.

On a related topic, in the late 90s Kawai hired an independent third party (A professor in a university material science laboratory) to test ABS materials for strength, stability, and precision as compared to another major company's wood action parts. The denigrators, especially dealers of competing products, still won't accept the results. They continue to proclaim to customers that they should not buy Kawai pianos because of those "plastic" parts.

Jonathan, your comments always seem to be extremely biased towards Steinway and "Steinway designed pianos," understandably. Don simply stated facts, why not attend one of his seminars, I am sure you would learn much. You may know this already, however I worked for Steinway a few years ago in management and was able to spend considerable time in the Steinway factory,I believe a trip to the KAWAI factory would be a real "eye opener," as I am sure you have been to Long Island City, however I dont believe Steinway conducts trips to its OEM suppliers. If you take a quick look at our point of purchase piece on carbon fiber technology you would find facts and stastics from micro textured surfaces for greater control to repetition speed. Something I have never found in printed Steinway materials, just the ambiguous "wood actions provide the greatest sensitivity," with no statistics to back this statement.

Jonathan,

Aren't you glad to be selling those Bostons built by Kawai? Why argue with the Kawai experts? I would be appreciative if I were you for their advancements which trickle down in some small way even to the 'Steinway designed' and Kawai built Bostons. Sure beats the SMC stuff!

Well, Maybe I should have given the Shigeru a closer look when I got my RX5. Truth is, my budget was already so blown I didn't have the nerve to look at it, or the faith that I would ever be good enough to need it. But this ability to play softly is important. My RX5 has a big, meaty, masculine voice that takes a strong and masterful touch to get the best out of it, and I love it for that. My condo-land neighbors wish I would play more softly, and I do try, but I can only get it down so far before the keys just don't strike reliably.

My technician is the greatest, and has improved certain adjustments that have moved the instrument up the playability index. This new information makes me wonder how far he could go.

Any, the Shigeru--- those legs. Too foofy for my bachelor living room. Be so nice to get all those great elements from RX and Shigeru in a single package.

Jeff, glad to hear you are enjoying your RX 5! Just for the record we offer the SK line with the straight spade leg upon request.

That's the best news I heard all day! Those curvaceous legs may serve to differentiate the SK but are the main reason I wouldn't consider upgrading.

Jeff,
how's your RX-5 treating you ?
Mine is starting to settle in nicely. Want to swap sometimes ?

As a faithful Kawai owner, I petition you to have your engineers work on Millennium III fingers. I'll gladly purchase a set of such fingers, and a Mill III Kawai, too.

Please design the Mill III fingers so they can work as fast as the Mill III action.

Thanks.

Dear Don Mannino, regarding the ABS materials matter, is it possible for your side to provide some data (or other related materials) for the comparison between ABS and wooden parts?? People in my area are very concern about this matter regarding how long the ABS material can last etc....