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I naively thought Digital Piano forum is safe place to say something nice about digitals.

What is better, to play 15K piano or 3K piano.

I do not doubt concert grands in the best concert halls will win from any home acoustic piano, however it is not a reason not to play pianos at home.

If someone's piano makes them happy (acoustic or digital), why bother.

Do not like this price battle, frankly speaking.

"Yes, and the fact that so many noobs are so happy to have a functional piano-like object that they sing from the rooftops about how great their DP is . . "

I am NOT a noob. I am a FREE MAN!

You're a free noob!

Couldn't agree more. Price has no relevance in a "what do you prefer to play?" question.

I would personally prefer to play a concert grand, however home conditions (space, room acoustics, noice requirements)make me play what I play, and it is quite satisfying instrument

I bought a NU1 two weeks ago. The first motivation was to be able to play during the evening without having the neighbors bumping on the wall. Today I play about 95% of the time with Headphones.
I tried the Silent systems on the AP and I was a little bit disappointed. It also increases the price of the piano dramatically.

Talking about prices, I agree that there's a minimum standard on an acoustic piano to be enjoyable/playable/etc. But it's not starting on $8000 (or other currencies). We forget there are available excellent second hand instruments, refurbished and guaranteed, for much less money the cost new. For instance, Yamaha U1 or, even better, U3 can be found relatively cheap ($3000?), and any of them, been in good shape, are astronomically far from the best digital piano.

The sound production is different in AP's and DP's. The best speakers will never ever reproduce what strings and wood make, they are different worlds. I love DP's, I see their advantages, they have their place, I own and use a pair of them but... nothing feeks like the real thing. So, answering the first question that opened this thread, no, I don't prefer the digital, generally speaking. I would prefer them on some special situations.

Maybe a high end DP costing arround 2500 eur may beat in some aspects a Yamaha B1, Young Chang or other really terrible pianos. But any minimum standard AP, even second hand but well maintained costing from 3000 eur as I said, will beat the best DP. We can talk about DP's (almost) quiet practice, portability, preventing problems with neighbours and others but an acoustic piano is an acoustic piano. At least on classical repertoire, any accomplished pianist (or in progress) must practice regularly on an AP and, sooner or later s/he must think on owing one. Better if it's a grand but if not, at lest a tall enough upright.

I would say minimum AP will beat DP is some aspects (not in all) as well:

1. DP at 2500EURO has very nice samples recorded, AP (new) below $15-20K do not provide with the similar tone quality although they superior in some other aspects - they do not sound nicer any longer.
2. Action is heavier on upright APs (but lighter on a very fine grand for $40K)
3. DPs are quiet! I can practice them as much as I wish, AP I cannot practice or play more than 1/2 hour a day.
4. I cannot force myself into buying second hand.

As I mentioned, I like nice APs, just in my case it cannot be the only instrument.

PS. The argument more and more resembles, what is better - electric or acoustic guitar, steak or watermelon

Depends on what do you qualify as "nice". While maybe the base naked tone may sound "nicer" on a DP just for the fact it has been recorded or modeled from a superior piano (usually a perfect in tune concert grand), the rest of the features (the body of sound, resonance...) are missing. That's why I prefer a new U3 (circa $8000) or a Kawai RX-2 ($14000?) over the best DP sound.



I disagree. There are almost as many weights of actions in AP's as AP's there are. There are very light and swallow actions, heavy as heck and so on, medium, etc. But the fact DP's actions are usually lighter than many uprights and lighter than most grand pianos doesn't make them preferable.



Yes, that's a clear advantage. IMHO that makes DP's the perfect complement to an AP.



I think they cannot be compared. Electric guitar is considered a new instrument, with different capabilities, expressive qualities and even music styles than the acoustic guitar. Digital pianos are not a new instrument, they are imitations, wannabe substitutes. I think a better comparison is between electric piano (such as Rhodes, Wurlitzer...) and acoustic piano. But which one is better, digital or acoustic piano? I have no doubt: acoustic, while DP's are very interesting and useful.



Is there a vegetarian here?

I have an entry level dp, and I played my cousin's Kawai baby grand last week (if you can call it playing lol) ... now I don't know how up-to-date her piano maintenance is, but the action surprised me as gritty compared to my easy-peasy dp. Of course she plays for a church, so it's a no-brainer decision for her. It was just so loud in her "small" piano room though (w/carpet, padded furniture, drapes, etc.) And when the sustain is pressed, there is that huge sound that's associated ...

Don't worry you are safe to say it. It's just that lately some people (myself included) think that the main brands have stagnated or are stagnating. Why? Because marketing gives them better results than I+D.

So, IMO DP are not that FAR away from acoustics, but that final mile is taking so long that we are getting impatient and we have to show them the whip.

Carlos

"I naively thought Digital Piano forum is safe place to say something nice about digitals."

Keep ya sense of humour, man! . . .hahahaahaha

I think this phenomenon is what really makes the difference between acoustic and digital. An acoustic sound just carries better than a digital. Even with a great speaker system, VSt, what have you - it just does not produce the same kind of sound. I also note that when I play an acoustic I can feel the vibrations in the instrument, whereas I cannot with a digital. Thus, it seems "dead" to me, or like I'm playing a toy.

I always hope that digital piano can be a direct replacement of AP. But after few years I found that it just won't happen because how the sound propagates out from a piano is kind of impossible to be emulated by speakers, also the DP fails in the area of "connection to the piano". I think my current DP system does sound pretty close to a AP when I sit in the player position, too bad that the sound changes so much as soon as I'm out from the sweet spot of the monitor.

But I still enjoy playing my DP more than an acoustic piano as I can control the volume so that it doesn't get too loud in my small apartment. I used to have an upright Yamaha but then I just couldn't enjoy it as it gets so loud when I play.....

You should mention what your setup is. I'm always interested to hear from people who are at least pretty happy with their setups. Excellent data in the forming of opinions (it's too hard to find a way to spend a decent amount of time with each the various pianos and speakers mentioned here).

It would depend on the situation and personal preference. Some people might actually prefer the digital over acoustic sound.

For myself, I have a Casio PX330 which fits nicely among 25 guitars in my music room on my property, it is far enough away from the main house not to drive my wife crazy. The Casio sounds and plays enough like a piano to suit my current needs,has a lot of fun sounds and sounds really good with an amp, but granted, if I had the funds, there would be a Mason & Hamlin AA as well as a much larger building to contain it.

oh yes I should have mentioned that:
N1, Vintage D, sound card: Creative 0404USB, monitor: Neumann KH120a

I did consider few monitors including Yamaha MSP5, Genelec 8030a and Neumann KH-120a, but after trying them out I ended up with the KH120a. Both the treble and bass sounds more natural with the KH120 than 8030a. The downside to the KH120 is the bass for the lowest octave, but this kind of response is expected for all monitors around this size.

For the VST I have both Ivory II and Galaxy Vintage D, the type of sound I target for is an openness sound which we get when playing AG, it's hard to descride, just not a "directly targeting in my face" type of sound. But since Ivory is quite closely mic, I couldn't get it to sound right through the monitor when I sit at the player position, it sounds like I'm putting my head near the lid of an AG. And I ended up using Vintage D.

Concerning set ups, I used to play in this restaurant near Windermere. I used a stereo accordian (ohner) 50W amp, one speaker either side o` me. The stereo from the piano was pronounced anyway, but it gave a good spatial feel.

An old lady piano teacer in her 80`s told me my piano "had a good tone" . . bless her cotton socks. She won`t be here now.

I was also told by the staff that efforts to create the equivalent atmoshere (by use of canned music) had failed, so I kept my job.

I definitely prefer digital, hands down, no question. But then I'm kind of un-pure in that, I like things like effects, layering sounds, portability, ease of recording, etc. Digital made it possible for me to play, whereas without them I would not have a chance to play. Digital was also used in most of the music that is close to my heart, not all, but it certainly has more influence.

Would I own an acoustic if the opportunity presented itself? Yes. Would I give up my digital for an acoustic. No way, never.

It does seem people forget that if it wasn`t for digitals, loads of folk wouldn`t be playing now. But there`s not too many Digital Pianos that don`t have stuff on `em which would distract a young `un from learning pure piano. . .