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#2006798 - 12/30/12 11:51 PM Re: New Nord Italian Grand [Re: voxpops]  
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jazzwee Offline
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I have no loyalty to a DP just because I happen to have it. I've criticized my past DP's heavily, including this one.

BUT -- after playing with the Faz sample, I'm wowed. I don't think there's another board that would do it for me.

And listening to Youtubes, etc. doesn't help. I listened the original recordings of the Faz including Youtube samples and had a negative opinion until I played it. I didn't realize how good it felt for a player and how tweakable the sound is.

Is this the only sample where there's 100% agreement by everyone as the favorite? I don't recall any other sample being voted unanimously at the top of the pile. I haven't heard of a dissenter in two forums so far.


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Hamburg Steinway O, Nord Electro 4 HP

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#2006816 - 12/31/12 12:52 AM Re: New Nord Italian Grand [Re: 36251]  
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Kawai James Offline
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Originally Posted by 36251
I guess it's tough after playing gigs using Vintage D.


Interesting, you play gigs with a software piano? What kind of a setup do you have?

Cheers,
James
x


Employed by Kawai Japan, however the opinions I express are my own.
Nord Electro 3 fan & occasional rare groove player.
#2006880 - 12/31/12 06:16 AM Re: New Nord Italian Grand [Re: jazzwee]  
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Originally Posted by jazzwee
I have no loyalty to a DP just because I happen to have it. I've criticized my past DP's heavily, including this one.

BUT -- after playing with the Faz sample, I'm wowed. I don't think there's another board that would do it for me.

And listening to Youtubes, etc. doesn't help. I listened the original recordings of the Faz including Youtube samples and had a negative opinion until I played it. I didn't realize how good it felt for a player and how tweakable the sound is.

Is this the only sample where there's 100% agreement by everyone as the favorite? I don't recall any other sample being voted unanimously at the top of the pile. I haven't heard of a dissenter in two forums so far.


+1

#2006900 - 12/31/12 08:30 AM Re: New Nord Italian Grand [Re: Kawai James]  
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36251 Offline
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Originally Posted by Kawai James
Interesting, you play gigs with a software piano? What kind of a setup do you have?
FP4 and HP laptop. I use Traktor Audio 2 and plug stereo jacks into FP4 input (so I can always switch to FP4 if there's a software issue.) I either run mono or stereo to my ancient GK keyboard amps and have the onboard speakers of FP4 adding some sound. I use Vintage D and NeoSoul for EP.

I'm playing strictly jazz gigs so I don't need to switch programs once I dial them in. For Vintage D, I'm currently using "In da jazz club?" preset.

I've never been more satisfied with the sound and action of this combo. When I suck, I can only blame myself smile


AG N2 | CP4 | SSv3 | GK MK & MP
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#2006908 - 12/31/12 08:46 AM Re: New Nord Italian Grand [Re: voxpops]  
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CyberGene Online content
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New products, sound libraries, etc seem to be praised by their first adopters. I think it has something to do with the higher expectations. I guess we'll have least biased reviews when the hype surrounding a new free library sound (extremely cool Christmas present for Nord users indeed) settles down a bit.


https://myspace.com/evgenykumanov/music/songs
Currently: Kawai ES7 -> Garritan CFX Lite
Previously: Kawai MP6, Kawai CA63, Roland RD-700SX, Roland FP-5, Yamaha P90, Korg SP-200, Casio CDP-100
#2006947 - 12/31/12 10:31 AM Re: New Nord Italian Grand [Re: voxpops]  
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I'm not being paid to use Nord keyboards nor am I given free gear. My enthusiasm comes from the quality of their products from the build quality, the simplistic design layout (excellent for giggers), the weight and portability, the free sample libraries, the constant updates to either the libraries ir the software (like adding functionality i.e. adding Long Release to the NP88), and not least of which, the excellent sound quality and genuine variety.

I have my complaints about the action and I'm not a fan of all of their sounds, but Nord offers a very unique product and approach. I am a multiple repeat buyer and supporter because their product works. No honeymoon here!


Yamaha AvantGrand N1
Nord Piano 2


"Be who you are and say how you feel. Because those who mind don't matter, and those who matter don't mind." - Dr. Seuss
#2006965 - 12/31/12 11:04 AM Re: New Nord Italian Grand [Re: voxpops]  
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maurus Offline
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Another unpaid member of Club Red here. While I have my criticisms I enjoy Clavia's open concept, and the quality of their instruments. That new piano sound just proves again that their way of doing things is a refreshingly good one.


Shigeru Kawai SK-2, etc.
#2006966 - 12/31/12 11:06 AM Re: New Nord Italian Grand [Re: Kawai James]  
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maurus Offline
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Originally Posted by Kawai James
Nord sound + decent action = fantastic playing experience. wink

... waiting ...

#2006971 - 12/31/12 11:18 AM Re: New Nord Italian Grand [Re: voxpops]  
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I'm going to assume that Nord knows that their action is sub par? I wonder what their thinking is by not implementing at least a decent action with their boards.

#2006977 - 12/31/12 11:25 AM Re: New Nord Italian Grand [Re: btcomm]  
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Originally Posted by btcomm
I'm going to assume that Nord knows that their action is sub par? I wonder what their thinking is by not implementing at least a decent action with their boards.


I can only assume weight. It would be interesting to discover what the bare action weighs with the Fatar action and then compare that with the better actions out there. The other issue is that Nord has to source actions from somewhere. I imagine the cost of developing their own from scratch would be prohibitive. Maybe they approached Yamaha or Roland or whoever and got shown the door?

#2006981 - 12/31/12 11:29 AM Re: New Nord Italian Grand [Re: voxpops]  
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Sure they know but I doubt there is anything they can do at the moment. James, any chance of a future joint venture between Kawai and Nord? laugh You are a Nord user and a Kawai employee, I'd bet you dream of something like that happening wink And a Happy New Year to you I guess smile


https://myspace.com/evgenykumanov/music/songs
Currently: Kawai ES7 -> Garritan CFX Lite
Previously: Kawai MP6, Kawai CA63, Roland RD-700SX, Roland FP-5, Yamaha P90, Korg SP-200, Casio CDP-100
#2006987 - 12/31/12 11:36 AM Re: New Nord Italian Grand [Re: btcomm]  
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Originally Posted by btcomm
I'm going to assume that Nord knows that their action is sub par? I wonder what their thinking is by not implementing at least a decent action with their boards.

Their thinking is that they are not equipped to manufacture their own keyboards, so they are limited to what is made available to them from other manufacturers, i.e. Fatar. (By contrast, Yamaha, Roland, Kawai, and Casio design and build their own keybeds, and don't offer them to their competitors. Luckily, it is easy to trigger a Nord from another board, which is why I sometimes suggest getting a light, unweighted Nord and then trigger it from the weighted 88 of your choice, leaving the Nord's own keybed as something to be used when playing organ or other sounds where you might not want the weighted action... best of both worlds.)

The other issue would be that their branding is based on boards that are relatively compact and portable, so even if they had a high quality action available to them, they would probably be disinclined to use it if it were to result in a 75 pound board like a Kawai MP-10.

#2006988 - 12/31/12 11:39 AM Re: New Nord Italian Grand [Re: voxpops]  
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The best way around this issue is not for Nord to develop their own action or even necessarily source a better one but to release a Nord Piano module and charge no more than £500 for it. Problem solved for us all.

#2006999 - 12/31/12 11:54 AM Re: New Nord Italian Grand [Re: EssBrace]  
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Yup, offering modules, be it rack or tabletop, would solve a lot of problems / gripes. They've done it in the past.

I'd love a Stage 2 module, as there are a ton of sounds I'd MIDI to both of my boards. As long as they're at it, double the memory on it.

Last edited by dje31; 12/31/12 11:59 AM.

Yamaha CP33 | Roland XP-30
#2007005 - 12/31/12 12:01 PM Re: New Nord Italian Grand [Re: EssBrace]  
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Originally Posted by EssBrace
The best way around this issue is not for Nord to develop their own action or even necessarily source a better one but to release a Nord Piano module and charge no more than £500 for it. Problem solved for us all.

The original Nord piano was, what, £2000? The keybed was not £1500 of it, 75% of its cost. No way they sell a keyboard-less version for £500. Triple that, maybe...

#2007018 - 12/31/12 12:30 PM Re: New Nord Italian Grand [Re: anotherscott]  
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ando Offline
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Originally Posted by anotherscott
Originally Posted by EssBrace
The best way around this issue is not for Nord to develop their own action or even necessarily source a better one but to release a Nord Piano module and charge no more than £500 for it. Problem solved for us all.

The original Nord piano was, what, £2000? The keybed was not £1500 of it, 75% of its cost. No way they sell a keyboard-less version for £500. Triple that, maybe...

Let's compromise and go £1000 then? I could consider that - especially if somebody would make a good MIDI only keyboard.

#2007037 - 12/31/12 01:02 PM Re: New Nord Italian Grand [Re: voxpops]  
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36251 Offline
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I thinks there is a chink in one's armor. The multiple people discussing their true desire for a module cause of the action. I know this isn't a new topic and understand that Nord has a made a decision to keep their brand low weight.

You also talk about how Nord supports their keyboards with updated sounds and I agree it's a wonderful system. That's until they redesign the memory limit and then you have to go spend another $3000+ (minus resale value of current model,) to stay at their cutting edge. I guess you have to give them credit for such an inventive business model. Though how gracious it would be for Nord to sell a hardware, memory update, so the consumer could avoid the depreciation.


AG N2 | CP4 | SSv3 | GK MK & MP
#2007038 - 12/31/12 01:12 PM Re: New Nord Italian Grand [Re: 36251]  
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Originally Posted by 36251
I thinks there is a chink in one's armor. The multiple people discussing their true desire for a module cause of the action. I know this isn't a new topic and understand that Nord has a made a decision to keep their brand low weight.



Wow, you're big into this fanboy thing.

First of all, all of us were aware of the limitations of the action before we bought it. And all of us would prefer a better action obviously.

But decisions are made based on what's available at the time. You make it sound like none of us would switch to a different manufacturer if they came up with something better (for gigging).

I myself gave up a new Roland FP7F. I'd switch back and forth without compunction if the need arises.

I have to say that MY COMPLAINT about the action has now been REDUCED because of the velocity response of the new sample. So without changing hardware, a major problem has been handled.


Pianoclues.com for Beginners
My Jazz Blog
Hamburg Steinway O, Nord Electro 4 HP

#2007039 - 12/31/12 01:12 PM Re: New Nord Italian Grand [Re: anotherscott]  
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Originally Posted by anotherscott
Originally Posted by EssBrace
The best way around this issue is not for Nord to develop their own action or even necessarily source a better one but to release a Nord Piano module and charge no more than £500 for it. Problem solved for us all.

The original Nord piano was, what, £2000? The keybed was not £1500 of it, 75% of its cost. No way they sell a keyboard-less version for £500. Triple that, maybe...


I take your point but the original Nord Piano was £1699. There is not just the key action to consider. It is the physical form factor - the sheer volume of materials. A single unit rack mount box that could be slotted into an off-the-shelf casing with bespoke front panel and connectors and painted red would be a lot cheaper than a Nord Piano to make in terms of basic cost. Throw in the sound engine and away you go. The Kurzweil and General Music modules - that were absolutely competitive in their day with the then current and best stage pianos - retailed around £399 at a time when the equivalent full 88 note stage pianos were £1250 or thereabouts. The Korg SG-Pro-X Rack was £599 at a time when the "mother piano", the SG-Pro-X, was £1499. Maybe I was being optimistic at £500 but there's no way it would need to be even £1000. Assuming the rack mount could be made at, let's say 40% of the cost of the "mother piano", I reckon £800 is entirely realistic against the Nord Piano 2's £2000 list price (or whatever it is).

It's a pipe dream no doubt. But a nice one.

#2007066 - 12/31/12 02:37 PM Re: New Nord Italian Grand [Re: voxpops]  
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I don't have a NORD but have played one. I too was disappointed by the action for home/studio playing of classical and modern but not pop/rock/blues/jazz music. I wondered though if the keyboard was perfectly fine for gigging with in a band, adequate for solos, and so met the Nord designers requirements. Of course better is always achievable on all or most DP's, just read the forums! smile

#2007193 - 12/31/12 08:56 PM Re: New Nord Italian Grand [Re: EssBrace]  
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Originally Posted by EssBrace
I'm currently playing Nord's sounds using MP10's keyboard so I'm pretty happy with that combination although I don't like having both pianos out in the room because it just looks a mess.


How about setting them up like this?

[Linked Image]

Happy New Year everyone!

Cheers,
James
x


Employed by Kawai Japan, however the opinions I express are my own.
Nord Electro 3 fan & occasional rare groove player.
#2007198 - 12/31/12 09:17 PM Re: New Nord Italian Grand [Re: Kawai James]  
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Originally Posted by Kawai James
How about setting them up like this?


Yes I've been looking at getting an upper tier for my Roland stand. I'll see what NAMM brings first though...

Happy New Year James and all the other Nord fanciers!

#2007226 - 12/31/12 09:57 PM Re: New Nord Italian Grand [Re: voxpops]  
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The Dave Ferris demo seems to have disappeared, before I've had a chance to listen. frown


#2007227 - 12/31/12 09:58 PM Re: New Nord Italian Grand [Re: Kawai James]  
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Originally Posted by Kawai James

How about setting them up like this?

[Linked Image]



That red is really ghastly, isn't it?

#2007255 - 12/31/12 10:53 PM Re: New Nord Italian Grand [Re: Melodialworks Music]  
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Originally Posted by Melodialworks Music
That red is really ghastly, isn't it?


Blasphemy!

No soup for you! wink


Employed by Kawai Japan, however the opinions I express are my own.
Nord Electro 3 fan & occasional rare groove player.
#2007305 - 01/01/13 03:02 AM Re: New Nord Italian Grand [Re: voxpops]  
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Happy New Years all! A New Years resolution for who've not yet experienced the Fazioli...try it this year!


Yamaha AvantGrand N1
Nord Piano 2


"Be who you are and say how you feel. Because those who mind don't matter, and those who matter don't mind." - Dr. Seuss
#2007350 - 01/01/13 07:52 AM Re: New Nord Italian Grand [Re: voxpops]  
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EssBrace Online content
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James - been studying that picture. Is that Photoshop at work? What is the lower keyboard there? Is the red felt photoshop'd just to match the Nord? The bevelled edge above the keys shows it is a Kawai (MP10 or similar) but the MP10 has blue felt...so is this a NEW Kawai piano/keyboard of some sort or am I getting all excited about a Photoshop creation?

Come on, put me out of the misery of my barely contained curiosity...

#2007369 - 01/01/13 08:51 AM Re: New Nord Italian Grand [Re: voxpops]  
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Kawai James Offline
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EssBrace, no Photoshop-ing.

This K-2 on the other hand...

[Linked Image]

Cheers,
James
x


Employed by Kawai Japan, however the opinions I express are my own.
Nord Electro 3 fan & occasional rare groove player.
#2007370 - 01/01/13 08:58 AM Re: New Nord Italian Grand [Re: Kawai James]  
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Originally Posted by Kawai James
EssBrace, no Photoshop-ing.


Mmmm, interesting! A real bit of red felt then. Maybe in a weighted 88 key piano or controller from your very own employers then.....no doubt all will be revealed in a couple of weeks in L.A?

That K2 looks good - but the combination of brassy Kawai logo and chrome fallboard hinge, pedals and casters is a fashion faux-pas. The devil's in the detail!

#2009441 - 01/05/13 01:34 PM Re: New Nord Italian Grand [Re: EssBrace]  
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In addition to bowing out of this thread because I didn't like the turn it had taken, I was uploading some new stuff to my Soundcloud page so I had to delete the original link to the Faziloi test to make room. I was still out of space so I went ahead and upgraded to the next Sc level.

I received a few PMs asking about the demo test, so to be fair to anyone who hadn't heard it, here's the Large Nord Fazioli sample again on "Pensativa"
http://soundcloud.com/dave-ferris/pensativa-clare-fischer/s-flu0C

Many have already heard this but here's the Nord Bosendorfer and Yamaha CP5 recorded last Spring of '12 again for comparison. I did use differing mic pres for these two. Due the nature of the Nord samples, I think the John Hardy Twin Servo is more flattering for the Nord Bosendorfer then the more transparent Forssell SMP-2. On the other hand, the CP5 best benefits from the Forssell to my ears. These demo tests were made before I'd purchased the JMK Audio JM-110 di/pre. For these DPs, I'd have to give the nod to the JM-110 at this time. It has the best of both worlds--transparency and just a tad of color which adds a nice vibe for the digital sound.

Nord Bosie
http://soundcloud.com/dave-ferris/gentle-rain-bonfa-nord/s-JVeeU

Yamaha CP5
http://soundcloud.com/dave-ferris/gentle-rain-bonfa-cp5/s-HMc1H

I'll leave these up here for 10 days or so and then probably delete them...so go ahead and download them now, if so desired, as opposed to later.


https://soundcloud.com/dave-ferris

2005 NY Steinway D
Yamaha CP4, CP5
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