Welcome to the Piano World Piano Forums
Over 2.5 million posts about pianos, digital pianos, and all types of keyboard instruments
Join the World's Largest Community of Piano Lovers (it's free)
It's Fun to Play the Piano ... Please Pass It On!

Gifts and supplies for the musician

Ad
Schumann's 4th Finger
Schumann's 4th Finger Enigma Resolved
(125ad)
Piano Life Saver - Dampp Chaser
Dampp Chaser Piano Life Saver
(ad)
Modern Piano Moving
Modern Piano Moving
(ad)
Piano Buyer Guide
Piano Buyer Spring 2017
(ad)
Lindeblad Piano
Lindeblad Piano Restorations and sales
(ad)
Accu-Tuner
Sanderson Accu-Tuner
Who's Online
103 registered (alphonsus, Aloyah, aliaksej, Almaviva, alexcawley, 36251, 22 invisible), 1643 Guests and 8 Spiders online.
Key: Admin, Global Mod, Mod
(ad)
Estonia Pianos
Estonia Pianos
Quick Links to Useful Piano & Music Resources
Our Classified Ads
Find Piano Professionals-

*Piano Dealers - Piano Stores
*Piano Tuners
*Piano Teachers
*Piano Movers
*Piano Restorations
*Piano Manufacturers
*Organs

Quick Links:
*Advertise On Piano World
*Free Piano Newsletter
*Online Piano Recitals
*Piano Recitals Index
*Piano & Music Accessories
*Live Piano Venues
*Music School Listings
* Buying a Piano
*Buying A Acoustic Piano
*Buying a Digital Piano
*Pianos for Sale
*Sell Your Piano
*How Old is My Piano?
*Piano Books
*Piano Art, Pictures, & Posters
*Directory/Site Map
*Contest
*Links
*Virtual Piano
*Music Word Search
*Piano Screen Saver
*Piano Videos
*Virtual Piano Chords
Page 2 of 2 < 1 2
Topic Options
#2006516 - 12/30/12 12:24 PM Re: L'isle joyeuse [Re: jackbirdy412]
Lemon Pledge Offline
Full Member

Registered: 12/21/04
Posts: 353
It doesn't matter which fingers you trill with, as long as you exit the trill with 4 (or 5) on the last d# and 3 on the last c#, so that you take c-natural with 2 and b with 1. Some here have suggested taking c with 1 and crossing over to 2 on b, which is nuts. There is no reason to use the left hand, and I've never seen anyone do it.

Slightly OT: nearly everyone (including me, sometimes) seems to want to play these opening trills as rapdily and brilliantly as possible, within a soft dynamic. I'm not sure that's necessary. For the trills that end the piece, it is, but maybe not for those at the beginning.

Top
(ad)
Piano & Music Accessories
piano accessories music gifts tuning and moving equipment
#2006536 - 12/30/12 12:59 PM Re: L'isle joyeuse [Re: pianoloverus]
Mark_C Offline
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member

Registered: 11/11/09
Posts: 21297
Loc: New York
Originally Posted By: pianoloverus
The only thing bad about some comments is the way some posters assume what doesn't work for them is inappropriate for others.

I don't agree. ha

In general what you said is true. But it isn't always. I hold to it being pretty close to absolutely true that "3-5" is very far from your best fingering for the trill, and that 2-4 would be better. However well you could do it with 3-5, you could do it better with 2-4. (Repeated for emphasis.) grin

I would also offer that the only reason any editor would have thought of showing "3-5" is a reluctance to "slide" a subsequent finger from one note to the next -- which is (if someone is a reasonably advanced pianist) a completely needless reluctance.

Top
#2006540 - 12/30/12 01:03 PM Re: L'isle joyeuse [Re: Lemon Pledge]
Mark_C Offline
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member

Registered: 11/11/09
Posts: 21297
Loc: New York
Originally Posted By: Lemon Pledge
Slightly OT: nearly everyone (including me, sometimes) seems to want to play these opening trills as rapdily and brilliantly as possible, within a soft dynamic....

I don't think anyone has specified that. It's certainly not how I see it.

Top
#2006548 - 12/30/12 01:17 PM Re: L'isle joyeuse [Re: Mark_C]
pianoloverus Online   content
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member

Registered: 05/29/01
Posts: 22163
Loc: New York City
Originally Posted By: Mark_C
Originally Posted By: pianoloverus
The only thing bad about some comments is the way some posters assume what doesn't work for them is inappropriate for others.

I don't agree. ha

In general what you said is true. But it isn't always. I hold to it being pretty close to absolutely true that "3-5" is very far from your best fingering for the trill, and that 2-4 would be better. However well you could do it with 3-5, you could do it better with 2-4. (Repeated for emphasis.) grin

I would also offer that the only reason any editor would have thought of showing "3-5" is a reluctance to "slide" a subsequent finger from one note to the next -- which is (if someone is a reasonably advanced pianist) a completely needless reluctance.
One poster already said they liked 35 the best. Have you taught this piece at least 20 times so you can judge what's best or are you assuming that what's best for you is best for others? There have been a huge number of different suggested fingering for this passage.

Top
(ad ) MusicNotes.com
sheet music search
#2006550 - 12/30/12 01:20 PM Re: L'isle joyeuse [Re: Lemon Pledge]
pianoloverus Online   content
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member

Registered: 05/29/01
Posts: 22163
Loc: New York City
Originally Posted By: Lemon Pledge
Some here have suggested taking c with 1 and crossing over to 2 on b, which is nuts. There is no reason to use the left hand, and I've never seen anyone do it.
But Kuanpiano, who we know is a terrific pianist based on his recordings, likes that one the best.

Top
#2006552 - 12/30/12 01:25 PM Re: L'isle joyeuse [Re: pianoloverus]
Mark_C Offline
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member

Registered: 11/11/09
Posts: 21297
Loc: New York
Originally Posted By: pianoloverus
One poster already said they liked 35 the best....

However, see this later post.
Also, from the prior posts it was clear that part of his reasoning was that he apparently never considered or tried using the same finger on two consecutive notes, and therefore apparently had never tried the alternate fingering. Would you disagree that in such a situation, it is far from indicating that 3-5 is better for him than 2-4?

Top
#2006558 - 12/30/12 01:35 PM Re: L'isle joyeuse [Re: pianoloverus]
Lemon Pledge Offline
Full Member

Registered: 12/21/04
Posts: 353
Originally Posted By: pianoloverus
Originally Posted By: Lemon Pledge
Some here have suggested taking c with 1 and crossing over to 2 on b, which is nuts. There is no reason to use the left hand, and I've never seen anyone do it.
But Kuanpiano, who we know is a terrific pianist based on his recordings, likes that one the best.


Since you seem to think you need to speak for him, I'll point out that he did not say that. He merely said that he found it very comfortable. If he's using a 2-3 trill, maybe he'd get better results exiting the trill with 4 and 3, as I've suggested, rather than crossing over the thumb. I'm not implying anything about his abilities; I've never heard him play.


I guess I also need to add that even if I describe a fingering as crazy, I'm not so narrow-minded as to think that 100% of the pianists on Earth should agree.

Top
#2006565 - 12/30/12 01:57 PM Re: L'isle joyeuse [Re: Lemon Pledge]
pianoloverus Online   content
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member

Registered: 05/29/01
Posts: 22163
Loc: New York City
Originally Posted By: Lemon Pledge
Originally Posted By: pianoloverus
Originally Posted By: Lemon Pledge
Some here have suggested taking c with 1 and crossing over to 2 on b, which is nuts. There is no reason to use the left hand, and I've never seen anyone do it.
But Kuanpiano, who we know is a terrific pianist based on his recordings, likes that one the best.


Since you seem to think you need to speak for him, I'll point out that he did not say that. He merely said that he found it very comfortable. If he's using a 2-3 trill, maybe he'd get better results exiting the trill with 4 and 3, as I've suggested, rather than crossing over the thumb. I'm not implying anything about his abilities; I've never heard him play.


I guess I also need to add that even if I describe a fingering as crazy, I'm not so narrow-minded as to think that 100% of the pianists on Earth should agree.
You called the fingering he liked "nuts". Whether it was his absolute favorite seems irrelevant, but it apparently was the one he chose to use. He is an excellent pianist, probably better than 98% or more of the PW members. If a articular fingering works for a very good pianist I think it is probably not in the "nuts' category.

Top
#2006574 - 12/30/12 02:13 PM Re: L'isle joyeuse [Re: pianoloverus]
Lemon Pledge Offline
Full Member

Registered: 12/21/04
Posts: 353
Originally Posted By: pianoloverus
Originally Posted By: Lemon Pledge
Originally Posted By: pianoloverus
Originally Posted By: Lemon Pledge
Some here have suggested taking c with 1 and crossing over to 2 on b, which is nuts. There is no reason to use the left hand, and I've never seen anyone do it.
But Kuanpiano, who we know is a terrific pianist based on his recordings, likes that one the best.


Since you seem to think you need to speak for him, I'll point out that he did not say that. He merely said that he found it very comfortable. If he's using a 2-3 trill, maybe he'd get better results exiting the trill with 4 and 3, as I've suggested, rather than crossing over the thumb. I'm not implying anything about his abilities; I've never heard him play.


I guess I also need to add that even if I describe a fingering as crazy, I'm not so narrow-minded as to think that 100% of the pianists on Earth should agree.
You called the fingering he liked "nuts". Whether it was his absolute favorite seems irrelevant, but it apparently was the one he chose to use. He is an excellent pianist, probably better than 98% or more of the PW members. If a articular fingering works for a very good pianist I think it is probably not in the "nuts' category.


Of course the relative value of various fingerings is "relevant." I can play this passage just fine with Kuanpiano's fingering, the one I described as nuts, but I can play it better with mine. If it makes you happy, I'll retract "nuts" and replace it with "inferior" or "sub-optimal", with (again) the shouldn't-be-necessary qualification that I don't expect all pianists (excellent or not) to agree.

My contribution to this thread was intended as practical advice, based on experience, for anyone struggling to get what they want out of this passage. That's all.

Top
#2006580 - 12/30/12 02:23 PM Re: L'isle joyeuse [Re: jackbirdy412]
JerryS88 Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 04/15/06
Posts: 644
Loc: Ringwood, NJ
24242424 \ 24242424 \ 24321352 \ 13521235

Top
#2006676 - 12/30/12 06:17 PM Re: L'isle joyeuse [Re: Lemon Pledge]
Kuanpiano Offline
2000 Post Club Member

Registered: 05/06/10
Posts: 2191
Loc: Canada
@Plover - thanks again for your kind words! I do try my best..haha

@Lemon - I tried out your fingering and it worked equally well for me for the turn, but I struggled switching fingers out of the trill. I guess it's a matter of personal fingering preference, I prefer playing the C with the thumb to kind of "turn" out of the trill (both musically, and literally, since you need to turn your wrist to put the 2nd finger on the B), and follow through with the rest of the gesture.

Generally fingering is indicative of pianistic technique, and my suggestion wasn't an exception - I generally use my thumb as often as possible for tonal purposes, and also turning of the hands when playing figures like this passage. Also, my trills aren't exactly the best..haha.


Originally Posted By: Lemon Pledge
Originally Posted By: pianoloverus
Originally Posted By: Lemon Pledge
Originally Posted By: pianoloverus
Originally Posted By: Lemon Pledge
Some here have suggested taking c with 1 and crossing over to 2 on b, which is nuts. There is no reason to use the left hand, and I've never seen anyone do it.
But Kuanpiano, who we know is a terrific pianist based on his recordings, likes that one the best.


Since you seem to think you need to speak for him, I'll point out that he did not say that. He merely said that he found it very comfortable. If he's using a 2-3 trill, maybe he'd get better results exiting the trill with 4 and 3, as I've suggested, rather than crossing over the thumb. I'm not implying anything about his abilities; I've never heard him play.


I guess I also need to add that even if I describe a fingering as crazy, I'm not so narrow-minded as to think that 100% of the pianists on Earth should agree.
You called the fingering he liked "nuts". Whether it was his absolute favorite seems irrelevant, but it apparently was the one he chose to use. He is an excellent pianist, probably better than 98% or more of the PW members. If a articular fingering works for a very good pianist I think it is probably not in the "nuts' category.


Of course the relative value of various fingerings is "relevant." I can play this passage just fine with Kuanpiano's fingering, the one I described as nuts, but I can play it better with mine. If it makes you happy, I'll retract "nuts" and replace it with "inferior" or "sub-optimal", with (again) the shouldn't-be-necessary qualification that I don't expect all pianists (excellent or not) to agree.

My contribution to this thread was intended as practical advice, based on experience, for anyone struggling to get what they want out of this passage. That's all.
_________________________
Working on:
Chopin - Nocturne op. 48 no.1
Debussy - Images Book II


Top
Page 2 of 2 < 1 2

Moderator:  Brendan, Kreisler 
(ad)
Pearl River
Pearl River Pianos
What's Hot!!
New Forums Location & New Piano World Site
---------------------
Why Do You Play The Piano?
-------------------
Posting Pictures on the Forums
-------------------
Forums RULES & HELP
-------------------
ADVERTISE
on Piano World

-------------------
Piano Classified Ads
ad
Pierce Piano Atlas


(ad)
Sweetwater Hiring Keyboard Player!
Sweetwater Hiring Keyboard Player
(ad)
Pianoteq
Grotrian Concert
Royal
for Pianoteq out now
(ad)
A. Geyer Pianos
A. Geyer Pianos
Piano Acc. & Gift Items in
Piano World's Online Store
In PianoSupplies.com ,(a division of Piano World) our online store for piano and music gifts and accessories, party goods, tuning equipment, piano moving equipment, benches, lamps Caster Cups and more.

Caster Cups for Pianos


Free Shipping on Jansen Artist Piano Benches
New Topics - Multiple Forums
My latest visit to Piano Restorations in the UK
by joe80
04/26/17 05:35 AM
Diapason 415Hz Artistic Temperament Mesotonique 1/6 Comma
by PaduaPiano
04/26/17 05:06 AM
Hao Staff Piano Players Support Thread
by AC1006
04/26/17 02:04 AM
DGX-230, I couldn't say no...
by oscar1
04/25/17 11:44 PM
Kawai CA97 - strange clicky noise on 3 keys
by ori0n
04/25/17 11:01 PM
(ad)
Sheet Music Plus
Sheet Music Plus Featured Sale
Forum Stats
87,506 Registered Members
44 Forums
179,208 Topics
2,619,268 Posts

Most users ever online: 15,252 @ 03/21/10 11:39 PM

Visit our online store for gifts for music lovers

 
Help keep the forums up and running with a donation, any amount is appreciated!
Or by becoming a Subscribing member! Thank-you.
Donate   Subscribe
 
Our Piano Related Classified Ads
|
Dealers | Tuners | Lessons | Movers | Restorations | Pianos For Sale | Sell Your Piano |

Advertise on Piano World
| Subscribe | Piano World | PianoSupplies.com | Advertise on Piano World |
| |Contact | Privacy | Legal | About Us | Site Map | Free Newsletter |


copyright 1997 - 2017 Piano World ® all rights reserved
No part of this site may be reproduced without prior written permission