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Re: Jazz Study Group 2: Advanced Players
scepticalforumguy #2001446 12/19/12 12:04 AM
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Yup, iRealB app has chords only. But on my Ipad I also have a PDF reader so I actually have all the Real Books loaded. So I have all the above. But other band members don't have that. All have iRealB. Great app. It's really a killer app on the iPad. I would say a lot of jazz musicians bought Ipads specifically because of this app.

The guy has an incredible voice. A voice you would hear on a popular record (not in my gig).

Thanks on comping! A little conflict with the guitar player though...


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Re: Jazz Study Group 2: Advanced Players
jazzwee #2001592 12/19/12 08:41 AM
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Congrats JW on finding yourself a great singer. I'm sure you'll learn a lot from him.

Re: Jazz Study Group 2: Advanced Players
scepticalforumguy #2001593 12/19/12 08:43 AM
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Originally Posted by scepticalforumguy
Originally Posted by knotty
Scep,
I'm headed to a trio gig where the request is 100% Christmas Jazz. Now I didn't grow up here, so I don't even know how the Rudolf tune goes ... That promises to be entertaining, in more ways than one!


so, how did it go?


we had a lot of fun. Someone throwing a party at his house. nothing to bring, someone drove me, it can't get better. We played a few xmas tunes but then moved on to easy standard. We really had a great time. Thanks for asking!

Re: Jazz Study Group 2: Advanced Players
jazzwee #2002494 12/21/12 07:49 AM
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Originally Posted by jazzwee


My goodness, the guy's voice was incredible!



Hi everybody.
My first post in this thread, but I try to follow it as time permits. I still far away from you guys in here and hope one day will be able to touch these topics.

JW.
I think you well deserved to meet this person. I wish you learn from him and be overall better musician!
I am really happy for you! Keep it up!

With respect, qwert.

Re: Jazz Study Group 2: Advanced Players
Bobpickle #2002590 12/21/12 11:45 AM
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Originally Posted by Bobpickle
recent concert from November at the 2012 Tbilisi Jazz Festival in Georgia

Chick Corea Trio with Christian McBride and Brian Blade and invitee Beka Gochiasvili (16-year old native)

[video:youtube]VlnwHDc8Rgk[/video]


Thanks for posting Bobpickle. I already saw this on another forum so I didn't comment. Beka has Chick-like chops. Another Hiromi here.



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Re: Jazz Study Group 2: Advanced Players
knotty #2002591 12/21/12 11:46 AM
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Originally Posted by knotty
Originally Posted by scepticalforumguy
Originally Posted by knotty
Scep,
I'm headed to a trio gig where the request is 100% Christmas Jazz. Now I didn't grow up here, so I don't even know how the Rudolf tune goes ... That promises to be entertaining, in more ways than one!


so, how did it go?


we had a lot of fun. Someone throwing a party at his house. nothing to bring, someone drove me, it can't get better. We played a few xmas tunes but then moved on to easy standard. We really had a great time. Thanks for asking!


Great way to gig during the holidays! And thanks for the nice words.


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Re: Jazz Study Group 2: Advanced Players
qwert #2002595 12/21/12 11:51 AM
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Originally Posted by qwert
Originally Posted by jazzwee


My goodness, the guy's voice was incredible!



Hi everybody.
My first post in this thread, but I try to follow it as time permits. I still far away from you guys in here and hope one day will be able to touch these topics.

JW.
I think you well deserved to meet this person. I wish you learn from him and be overall better musician!
I am really happy for you! Keep it up!

With respect, qwert.


Thanks qwert and hello! Drop by and chat. You're always welcome here.

I do appreciate the fact that the singer/percussionist can hang out with local musicians like us and not be critical that we're not at his level. In fact he was scheduled to play with us some more but he had a gig that came up (good $ he said).

But the good news is that (a) he made us look good, (b) we must sound ok enough that it doesn't embarrass him.

What it does show though is that excellent musicians like him abound but they can't make enough money so they've got to hook up with bands like ours. He should be making more money in more serious gigs because he deserves it.

For the moment, I just appreciate the learning benefit.


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Re: Jazz Study Group 2: Advanced Players
jazzwee #2002610 12/21/12 12:16 PM
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To those who know Inner Urge (printer1?), I have two versions of the head in the Real Books and they have different ways of playing the arpeggio section (last 8 bars).

On one, the Bb7 arpeggio is all white notes, and then on the other it includes the b7 of Bb7. Different timing too. So which one should I be using? The second one is easier.

I've listened to Piano versions of the head and I can't actually even hear the upward arpeggio. Only the initial downward line. It's very hard to play the upward arpeggio and then have fingers ready for the next one. Particularly at the original tempo of 218.

Also the last 8 bars -- really hard to "hear" it flow melodically, even just sticking to important chord tones. Will take a while to absorb and not play mechanically.


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Re: Jazz Study Group 2: Advanced Players
jazzwee #2002644 12/21/12 01:21 PM
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Back to back last night. Really fun playing with this tenor player i just met. Plays all by ear. Key is irrelevant to him. What makes it really fun is that if I ever screw up a chord, then bam, he follows right along and crashes with me. Then gives me a look like "That didn't sound right".

Re: Jazz Study Group 2: Advanced Players
jazzwee #2002767 12/21/12 05:41 PM
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jazzwee ... couple of things going on w/those different versions of the head. first, fake books and, in particular, real books can't be trusted to be 100% accurate.they are a lot of reasons for this and i'll just leave it at that. maybe best to say about them that we're lucky we have' at all!

the best way to figure out what the head actually is to transcribe it. software like "Transcribe" will let you slow the recording WAY WAY down to the point where you can pretty easily isolate individual notes. or if that's still too hard, slowing the head down in something like Transcription will at least let you choose between one or the other of the realbook versions.

those last 8 bars ... one way to approach then is, again, slow down recordings and transcribe. from listening to chick corea's "now he sings now he sobs" i learned that chick plays (or played in those days as it were) over those types of chord changes with pentatonic scales - which vastly simplifies them. so just a question of which tool to use for which task.

one last observation ... when we were discussing II last week the question of G natural or G# in the scale for the f#m7b5 came up. so ..... i went to spotify, pulled up some recordings and:

jerry bergonzi (fabulous tenor player) begins his solo a line that has the G, not the G#. on the original inner urge recording, bob cranshaw (the bassist) takes the first solo. to my ears, he doesn't sound particularly comfortable soloing on those changes. having said that, he uses G#s over the f#m7b5 (and not G naturals). very interesting ..... smile

joe henderson: he plays his first three choruses without using EITHER a g natural or a g# over the the f#m7b5. very interesting ....... smile

in his 4th chorus, BANG, there it is: g# as an approach note to a natural.

i didn't check to see how mccoy tyner handles it ... but that would be interesting too.

so ..... a lot of ways to interpret how/why JH does what he does. one strategy i took away from what he's doing is DON"T USE EITHER G# or G NATURAL over the F#m7b5. if you DON'T use either of those notes you'll end up, by default, focusing on other notes! ... which is exactly what the II head demonstrates over the first 8 bars.

hope this helps ....


Re: Jazz Study Group 2: Advanced Players
jazzwee #2002805 12/21/12 07:39 PM
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Thanks printer1. I'm enjoying playing over the changes and making sense out of it. Not too bad at all.

The only issue really is how to execute on the head on the last 4 bars. The rest of the tune is cool. The head of course plays the last 4 bars as a simple arpeggio of the chord tones. So that could be considered the super simplified approach. I really only had a feeling of a loss of a melodic line on the last two chords. I think I have to make it lead well to the F-7b5 and so common tones become a focus.

This is a neat tune. If it didn't go so fast, it wouldn't be that bad. But I think I picked it up quickly.


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Re: Jazz Study Group 2: Advanced Players
jazzwee #2002947 12/22/12 05:36 AM
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BTW printer1, On Inner Urge, various versions play it differently so I guess it doesn't help unless I specifically focus ONLY on Joe Henderson's version.

I'm just curious what you play (if you play this tune). One Real book version plays the downward arpeggio as triplet eighths and upwards as a quintuplet 16ths. The other version plays the downward and upward arpeggios mostly as sixteenths (equal up and down). Maybe this is an issue of "expression" since it's a matter of rhythm/timing.

...which kind of tells me, that it can be up to me I suppose since the masters differ.

It's really difficult though to jump from a CMaj7 arpeggio to an AMaj7 arpeggio without a pause. That's my only real problem in this whole tune! It reminds me of some lines in Chopin Etude 10/1. Something similar to that. Man, it shows my weakness at AMaj7 arpeggios. It's not too common in jazz so it's not honed down.



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Re: Jazz Study Group 2: Advanced Players
jazzwee #2003175 12/22/12 06:04 PM
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Jazzwee ... that Chopin Etude has exactly the technique you want to use for those II passages we're discussing. In particular, the II arpeggios (and Chopin's ... and as you know he's got that A major arpeggio in there that's unbelievably clunky to play!)

all that is hard ONLY if you try to connect notes w/finger techniques ... finger techniques as in get the finger to the note and then let the hand follow. Actually, do it the other way ... get the hand (move it laterally across the keyboard) over the general contour of the notes and then let the fingers do their work ... which is just drop onto the keys since the lateral movement of your hand will have placed them where they need to be!

The question of which exact notes to play ... get a few different recordings of Joe Henderson and the compare and kind of conflate what you like best. Having the ability to slow the recordings down is crucial for this (to hear what's going on).

Transcribing ... it's the only way to know exactly what's going on really anywhere! Even if you only transcribe tiny little bit just to clarify (clarify as in "Is it choice A or is it choice B?") it's as definitive as it gets!

Hope this helps!

Re: Jazz Study Group 2: Advanced Players
jazzwee #2003282 12/23/12 12:26 AM
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Thanks printer1! Almost ready to play this. Soloing is fine. Head -- still messing up once in awhile so it just has to ripen. I'm sure to play this in a couple of weeks. It's really fun to solo to.

I have a few woodshed tunes for the holidays (in addition to Inner Urge) -- Waltz for Debby, Along Came Betty, Moment's Notice and a refresh on Very Early, Beatrice. Full plate!


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Re: Jazz Study Group 2: Advanced Players
jazzwee #2003587 12/23/12 06:31 PM
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most excellent!

Re: Jazz Study Group 2: Advanced Players
jazzwee #2005359 12/28/12 09:17 AM
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Re: Xmas tunes.

Strange things do happen. I got "the" call to sub for a famous bassist, he can't make the gig thanks to living in the countryside (hefty snow out there in the sticks).
A 60+ men's choir (ages from teens to seniors citizens), a jazz pianist, a singer of repute and moi. The concert's taking place in a church built in 1462. We'll be playing: A child is born, Chestnuts roasting, Have yourself a merry little Xmas, Silent Night, Santa Claus is coming to town and a bunch of Swedish traditional songs - all arranged by the pianist.

So I've spent my birthday practising Have yourself in Gb - ahh the horror . . .
:-)

Re: Jazz Study Group 2: Advanced Players
jazzwee #2005703 12/28/12 06:55 PM
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Y'all remember Beatrice? When we first tried that sometime ago, I never felt like it clicked. But after working on Inner Urge with all the Lydian modes in it, I started to appreciate what's going on in Beatrice which also has a lot of lydian. I've decided to play that for sure at my next gigs.

Some things I guess just take time for the mind to absorb.


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Re: Jazz Study Group 2: Advanced Players
chrisbell #2005704 12/28/12 06:59 PM
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Originally Posted by chrisbell
Re: Xmas tunes.

Strange things do happen. I got "the" call to sub for a famous bassist, he can't make the gig thanks to living in the countryside (hefty snow out there in the sticks).
A 60+ men's choir (ages from teens to seniors citizens), a jazz pianist, a singer of repute and moi. The concert's taking place in a church built in 1462. We'll be playing: A child is born, Chestnuts roasting, Have yourself a merry little Xmas, Silent Night, Santa Claus is coming to town and a bunch of Swedish traditional songs - all arranged by the pianist.

So I've spent my birthday practising Have yourself in Gb - ahh the horror . . .
:-)


I just looked at it in Gb. Not that bad smile Though it was a pain looking at transposed changes showing Cb...just can't get used to that.


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Re: Jazz Study Group 2: Advanced Players
jazzwee #2005728 12/28/12 07:48 PM
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Originally Posted by jazzwee
Originally Posted by chrisbell
Re: Xmas tunes.
So I've spent my birthday practising Have yourself in Gb - ahh the horror . . .
:-)
I just looked at it in Gb. Not that bad smile Though it was a pain looking at transposed changes showing Cb...just can't get used to that.
On the piano, no problem. /though, try and play the head in Gb smile ) But on the double bass its a real pain . . . tricky key to play in tune in. But doable. Still, I felt like Palle-lite . . .

Re: Jazz Study Group 2: Advanced Players
chrisbell #2005747 12/28/12 08:32 PM
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jazz wee .. beatrice by sam rivers? that's a great tune! have you heard the recording it's from (fusia swing song ... sam rivers, jaki byard, tony willams, ron carter!)

... Gb major on the piano is a very, very nice key because the black keys are always consonant! On double bass, Gb, it's probably a nightmare of a key! No open strings!

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