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I'm learning this piece, and I'm currently trying to perfect these trills and demisemiquavers on the first page. This is for an LTCL exam I plan to take later this year, and I'm struggling with the speed of these few bars. Would it be considered acceptable to play the circled notes with the left hand, providing they are even? I've not seen any other pianists do it on Youtube recordings and I've not been able to ask my teacher.



Thanks

IMO just about anything is 'acceptable,' but I don't think that's good, because it would make you tend to stress those notes more than you want to, and the notes you want to stress most are the ones after them. I know that you could say you'd make sure it comes out right, but if you do it that way, you're making it very hard on yourself musically and I think it would be very likely to fail you, especially in a pressure situation. If anything, better (or less bad) to take those next notes with the left hand, although I wouldn't recommend that either (awkward among other things). Best of all: Work more and better on playing the whole thing with the right hand.

P.S. Maybe to help you take it all with the RH:

What fingering have you been using on the D# and C#? (I mean in the riff, not the trills.) Have you been using 2? If so, try 3. If you've already been using 3, I'm not sure why this would be particularly hard for you, assuming you're OK for the rest of the piece.

Not a good idea in my opinion, if only because a few pages later you have to play the very same RH figuration while the LH is busy with chords.

Edit: and again in the coda.

I forgot that!

But anyway, there are examples like that where we might get more creative in the fingering when the passage is all by itself, because it's more exposed. Also "because we can."
But I sure agree with you here.

I think you have to use 3 on those. The fingering I use is

35(trill) then 2 135 2 135 2 1235

Just hang in there. You'll get it.

Holy cow, jackbirdy, I think as many pianists use the LH second finger on the circled red C as not! I know I did. This piece is outrageously difficult to start, IMHO. When the flourish returns later in the piece, you can't use the LH, but by that time, you're into the piece and calmer. Plus, it's not NEARLY as exposed and sadistic as the opening!

I think using the LH in this opening cadenza also gives you the chance -- with anxiety breathing down your shorts -- to be a bit more expressive with this extra control available to you.

p.s. the teacher with whom I worked on this years ago was a Juilliard grad and studied the piece (and won some competitions using it) with Beveridge (sp?) Webster, who, as everyone knows, was a specialist in this repertoire. She used the LH on the C in the opening.

Thanks for your replies. I would only have suggested using the LH here simply because it's a very exposed passage, and I can just about do it evenly with both hands, it sounds a little awkward with just the one. I'm trilling on 2 and 4 because even though my edition suggests trilling on 3 and 5 I simply can't do that fast enough and I don't want to make things unnecessarily difficult for myself.
I'll try using 3 on the D# and C#, the only reason this passage is difficult for me is because I'm trilling with 2 and 4 and so the only finger left for the C-natural is the thumb, and following that there's no fingers left for the remaining flourish.

When I play it using the left hand on the circled notes it's even throughout, and doesn't sound like those notes are accented. Of course, during a pressure situation it would be very easy for those notes to become accented if I wasn't paying attention or nerves had got the better of me.

Thanks for your help!

I just noticed the OTHER circled red notes! You really don't need to use the LH on anything but the initial C. Good rotation makes the "riff" thereafter eminently pianistic.

I did the trill, btw, with 2/4, many use 2/3. I don't know anyone who uses 3/5.

OK, so which fingerings would you suggest on the other notes that are highlighted? I was thinking that it should go either 2/4 or 3/4 on the trill, although I'll try 2/3, that may be better.
I'm leaning towards LH 2 on the C natural, RH 135 on the B, D# and G, then RH 2 on the B-flat, 135 on the A, C# and F, RH 2 again on the A-flat and then RH 1235 on the final G major arpeggio, although this feels incredibly awkward and cumbersome to get the 2 over each time.

Thanks for all your help!

Of course! IMO 3-5 is completely and utterly ridiculous. I know that the people who do editions are supposedly experts, but.....all I can say is "but."
3-5 is completely ridiculous.


Oh OK -- so that means you WERE using 2?
That might well be your main problem with the passage.

But also....


Not so! You can slide the 2nd finger onto the C.
And even if you use the thumb, which is what I would do anyway....


Sure there are!! You can easily 'slide' the thumb from C to B, especially because (IMO) the desired articulations leave plenty of time for it.

You've been making it harder than it really is with (a) a bad fingering, and (b) some wrong assumptions.

I'd bet you'll now be able to play it quite well pretty soon.

Thank you, Mark C - your fingering suggestions have already made this passage a thousand times better. I'm still deciding to use the LH finger 2 on the C natural immediately following the trill on 2/4, but with practice of the wrist rotation requiring the RH finger 2 to hit those notes coming back it should get much better.

Thanks also to everyone else, your advice has been most helpful.

I disagree. 35 isn't bad at all, but I suppose everyone's different. I use 35 and then switch to 4 on the last D#. I find that much easier than trying to use thumb on C and then 2 on B, but then again, I have big hands and fat fingers.

Yes, that's what I think most people do. The RH 2 finger on those notes is followed by the RH thumb on A, then G, yes? Feel your wrist drop slightly on the RH rhumb notes, then raise the wrist to get the rest of the riff. It's right under your hand. Sort of an undulating motion, perceptible at a slow tempo, almost imperceptible at the fast tempo, with that final G-B-D-G a flourish almost that is tossed off in a lateral movement that feels effortless.

Hope this helps.

D#

LOL! Right you are.

It's an easy accidental to miss...this I know!

I'm surprised you would need to use the left hand for this....I found a very comfortable fingering to be:

trill on 2-3, then 1-2-3-5-2 1-3-5-2 1-2-3-5

Though I guess you can also try trilling with 3-5 and following through with the same fingering.

I've heard this quite a few times in live concert and don't recall ever seeing any pianist use two hands on the passage in question. Of course, if they used thier LH just on the first C natural, I may have missed it.

When I've tried playing through this piece I used the fingering suggested by Kuanpiano which seems straightforward and doable.

Impossible to know without hearing you, but I'd bet a few quarters that however well you play it using 3-5, you'd do a better job on it using 2-4.