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#2002263 - 12/20/12 04:35 PM New Nord Italian Grand  
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voxpops Offline
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Wales
Here

Nice, but still hoping for some big Rhodes/Wurli samples soon.


"you don't need to have been a rabbit in order to become a veterinarian"

mabraman, 2015
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#2002267 - 12/20/12 04:50 PM Re: New Nord Italian Grand [Re: voxpops]  
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Kawai James Offline
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Oooooh yeah!
Merry bl**dy Christmas!

No time to try it now, but will definitely be loading the new piano onto my Electro this evening.

voxpops, time to bite the bull and get yourself a NE4D? You could MIDI it up to your MP6 and have the best of both worlds. wink

Cheers,
James
x


Employed by Kawai Japan, however the opinions I express are my own.
Nord Electro 3 fan & occasional rare groove player.
#2002275 - 12/20/12 05:02 PM Re: New Nord Italian Grand [Re: voxpops]  
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If it was bi-timbral and had the upgraded memory, I wouldn't hesitate, but I need to have organ available at the same time as AP/EP.


"you don't need to have been a rabbit in order to become a veterinarian"

mabraman, 2015
#2002279 - 12/20/12 05:10 PM Re: New Nord Italian Grand [Re: voxpops]  
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Yeah, I hear you man, but that's never going to happen while the Stage is their flagship board.

James
x


Employed by Kawai Japan, however the opinions I express are my own.
Nord Electro 3 fan & occasional rare groove player.
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#2002280 - 12/20/12 05:11 PM Re: New Nord Italian Grand [Re: voxpops]  
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Whooaa! Finally, another piano from Nord. I'd better like it. They built my hopes up with the awful Bright Grand. I'm off to update the Nord now......

#2002414 - 12/20/12 11:30 PM Re: New Nord Italian Grand [Re: voxpops]  
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I just listened to the samples and they do sound a lot like a nine foot Faz. Such nice pianos. One of the best in the world in my opinion.


Kawai MP11, iMac 2015, Yamaha HS8's, Sennheiser 650, Focusrite 2i4, Pianoteq 5, Steinway Model A, Mason and Hamlin Model AA
The Kawai Digital Piano Users Forum
#2002519 - 12/21/12 08:34 AM Re: New Nord Italian Grand [Re: voxpops]  
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maurus Offline
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WOW! And the best thing is you can download the XL version into the piano RAM of the Electros - for the first time. This is EXACTLY what I'm doing now. (All other XL versions of pianos don't fit.)

What a great present from Clavia! Thank you!

#2002523 - 12/21/12 08:41 AM Re: New Nord Italian Grand [Re: voxpops]  
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maurus, good call! How much memory is left after uploading the XL version? It must take forever to transfer...

James
x


Employed by Kawai Japan, however the opinions I express are my own.
Nord Electro 3 fan & occasional rare groove player.
#2002525 - 12/21/12 08:48 AM Re: New Nord Italian Grand [Re: voxpops]  
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It's still transferring... 3.2MB remaining says the Sound Manager. So it's not really practical if you need anything else in the piano RAM. Still!

#2002532 - 12/21/12 09:13 AM Re: New Nord Italian Grand [Re: voxpops]  
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I'm loving it! It has a wide range of colors and nice dynamic range. It's not nearly as in your face sounding as the Bosie or S4 Bright Grand but seems to be more even, and the Lrg sample is actually larger than the previous 2 pianos in Lrg size. Christmas comes early yet again. They did this 2 years ago with the Bosendorfer Imperial sample. I now have:
1. Fazioli Italian Grand Lrg size
2. Bosendorfer Imperial Grand Lrg size
3. Steinway Lady D Lrg size
4. Yamaha C7 Studio Grand 2 Lrg size
5. Yamaha S4 Bright Grand Lrg size

I've grown to really like all of them for various purposes and uses. Somedays ill use the Bosendorfer, others the C7. Aside from the portability, this is the best part to owning the Nords.


Yamaha AvantGrand N1
Nord Piano 2


"Be who you are and say how you feel. Because those who mind don't matter, and those who matter don't mind." - Dr. Seuss
#2002537 - 12/21/12 09:22 AM Re: New Nord Italian Grand [Re: voxpops]  
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Kawai James Offline
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I totally agree Zach!

Shigeru Kawai sample for Christmas 2013, perhaps?

James
x


Employed by Kawai Japan, however the opinions I express are my own.
Nord Electro 3 fan & occasional rare groove player.
#2002678 - 12/21/12 01:37 PM Re: New Nord Italian Grand [Re: voxpops]  
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Quote
Shigeru Kawai sample for Christmas 2013, perhaps?


+1!
I++;
++I;
I = I + 1


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#2002680 - 12/21/12 01:39 PM Re: New Nord Italian Grand [Re: HwyStar]  
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Originally Posted by HwyStar

+1!
I++;
++I;
I = I + 1


EXACTLY what I was thinking! I think.

#2002737 - 12/21/12 03:36 PM Re: New Nord Italian Grand [Re: voxpops]  
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Just been playing the new Fazioli. I'm impressed but with two caveats: firstly, like other Nord sounds it still plays a bit too loudly at low velocities and again like other Nord piano sounds the top two octaves are weak. It's like you can only go up to velocity 70 or 80. Whereas in the mid range and bass it will really bark if you give it a good smack. One other minor gripe is that I think the bass could use a tad more richness and warmth. It's not that I want more bass, just the character of the sound is a bit dry.

They are the negatives but the positive is - and I know it's early days and the honeymoon has barely begun - but I think its basic tonal character is perhaps the best I've heard on a hardware DP. In terms of bright/mellow it is neutral and there is just something nice about it, especially in the middle octaves, where it is very expressive.

I'm currently "controlling" it from a Kawai MP10 which might be having an effect on my perceptions but I prefer the new voice to all other previous Nord piano sounds.

Cheers,

Steve

#2002776 - 12/21/12 05:15 PM Re: New Nord Italian Grand [Re: voxpops]  
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Have been playing the new Fazioli on and off for the last hours, on my lowly Electro 3HP. The description on the Website, "slightly ambient, brilliant and boasts an amazing dynamic range" is quite correct. A very even, rich, and somewhat distant tone, very playable, invites to indulge in phrasing even the shortest lines, in all positions. The XL version in particular has a very rich sound, and I find it rather less problematic in the highest octaves than the other pianos (with a suitable bit of high mid boost). Slow chords with a bit of sustain have an awesome lingering sound.

In order to load something else at the same time, however, I have to cut back to the Lrg version, where a tad of the richness gets lost (but not the character). Comparing this version with the Bösendorfer Grand Imperial I have to say I can't say which one I prefer, I just love the straightforward nature of the Bösendorfer except in the high treble (can't compare that one with its XL version, unfortunately, which is too large for my Electro).

The new Fazioli (Lrg) will stay on my Electro, replacing the Grand Lady D. For certain types of music I find it the best overall so far. For other kinds I still prefer the Grand Imperial. Playing a Bach piece, for instance, the Fazioli induces me to try a more romantic interpretation than the Bösendorfer with its more analytic character and thundery bass (and usually I prefer my Bach less romantic...).


Shigeru Kawai SK-2, etc.
#2002781 - 12/21/12 05:20 PM Re: New Nord Italian Grand [Re: voxpops]  
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@maurus. How are you finding the action on your 3HP with piano samples such as the Fazioli and Bosendorfer? Are you able to articulate and maintain sufficient control when playing classical works? I find the same action in the Numa Piano slightly problematic.


"you don't need to have been a rabbit in order to become a veterinarian"

mabraman, 2015
#2002792 - 12/21/12 05:58 PM Re: New Nord Italian Grand [Re: voxpops]  
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voxpops, it's quite difficult. While you can adjust to the action, it's no comparison with the real thing. Subtle articulation differences tend to get evened out.

However, this limitation I also found in the Nord Piano when I tried it extensively in shops, and I found the NP's action not sufficient to convince me to give up the Electro's fantastic portability (my main reason for getting one). The best I can do is to control the Nord from a better action. Using my P155's GH action is already a good step up, and then classical pieces begin to make quite a bit more sense. Articulated improvisation is less of a problem.

Still, practicing classical pieces on the NE3HP works well enough when traveling, and when no acoustic is at hand... and you could see it this way: If you manage to control a classical piece well on the Electro you will probably be able to do the same on a serious piano. wink

Last edited by maurus; 12/21/12 06:04 PM.
#2002809 - 12/21/12 06:43 PM Re: New Nord Italian Grand [Re: voxpops]  
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Thanks, maurus. It's much as I expected: the Fatar actions will take you only so far - even with Nord's tweaks. I think KJ should commandeer a large batch of Kawai's previous generation of DP actions (there must be a bunch lying around the factory somewhere) and sell them to Nord - even older Kawai actions would be a large step up. wink


"you don't need to have been a rabbit in order to become a veterinarian"

mabraman, 2015
#2002868 - 12/21/12 09:54 PM Re: New Nord Italian Grand [Re: EssBrace]  
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Originally Posted by EssBrace
Just been playing the new Fazioli.


Steve -

Which version do you have loaded?

Lawrence

#2002916 - 12/22/12 01:19 AM Re: New Nord Italian Grand [Re: Melodialworks Music]  
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#2002960 - 12/22/12 05:32 AM Re: New Nord Italian Grand [Re: Dave Ferris]  
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Dave, it took me a while to figure out some proper EQ for getting more out of the Fazioli (whatever version). Without that, it can sound rather subdued compared with the Bosie (which I EQ as well).

Vox: Yup. A proper action is my main wish for the Nord Piano. Had hopes for the NP2, but had to postpone them to the NP3... I'd happily accept a few more kilograms.


Shigeru Kawai SK-2, etc.
#2002971 - 12/22/12 06:34 AM Re: New Nord Italian Grand [Re: Melodialworks Music]  
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Originally Posted by Melodialworks Music
Originally Posted by EssBrace
Just been playing the new Fazioli.


Steve -

Which version do you have loaded?

Lawrence


XL. It's a nice piano in my opinion.

#2003001 - 12/22/12 08:32 AM Re: New Nord Italian Grand [Re: voxpops]  
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It took me a little while to warm up to the Fazioli, but I loaded in the XL and I really like it. The tone can be similar to the Bright Grand but with more depth and warmth. Maurus what EQ settings are you using on the Fazioli?


Yamaha AvantGrand N1
Nord Piano 2


"Be who you are and say how you feel. Because those who mind don't matter, and those who matter don't mind." - Dr. Seuss
#2003003 - 12/22/12 08:43 AM Re: New Nord Italian Grand [Re: PianoZac]  
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Originally Posted by PianoZac
Maurus what EQ settings are you using on the Fazioli?


Will depend on the output chain a lot! With my AKG 240MkII i found very slight bass and treble boost (1-2 dB), and a mid boost of about 3-5 dB at 1.5-2.5 kHz very helpful to get a little more presence. As the sampling has ambience, one also should keep reverb rather dry IMO.

Edit: After further playing around I made an interesting observation (perhaps totally idiosyncratic) - I prefer the Med size to the Lrg size - it takes away some of the ambience and makes the bass and treble a little cleaner *when using the sustain pedal*. So now my Electro has the Bosie Lrg, the Faz Med (rather than the other way round), and two Rhodes sounds (MkI and MkIV) loaded - a workable combination for me for the time being...

Last edited by maurus; 12/22/12 12:13 PM.
#2003154 - 12/22/12 04:09 PM Re: New Nord Italian Grand [Re: maurus]  
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#2003211 - 12/22/12 06:43 PM Re: New Nord Italian Grand [Re: Dave Ferris]  
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#2003272 - 12/22/12 10:48 PM Re: New Nord Italian Grand [Re: voxpops]  
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Dave that sounds great! Did you ad any EQ? or is that the pristine sample? Anyway, very nice playing and a great sound!


Nord Stage 2 HA88
Roland RD800
#2003283 - 12/22/12 11:32 PM Re: New Nord Italian Grand [Re: voxpops]  
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I just played with the Fazioli for awhile this afternoon and my earlier impression of this has changed. This is VERY Playable. I think this is the best sample actually.

The biggest change (from others) is that the dynamics is feeling normal now. It's not ultra sensitive like the others. So I can be more confident about hitting with gusto. The balance between lower and higher registers is excellent. I'm finding it really good as far as my LH voicings vs. RH solo lines. I switched between this and my acoustic and it wasn't as big a jump as before.

There's no quirky upper registers here. Just a smooth balance of volume.

Very nice! I'm not entirely fond of the Fazioli sound in real life but given that this is a DP, the cleanliness of the Fazioli sound actually keeps it from getting muddy on a DP.

I'm using the Large sample and I'm setting this as my default #1 patch.


Pianoclues.com for Beginners
My Jazz Blog
Hamburg Steinway O, Nord Electro 4 HP

#2003367 - 12/23/12 06:14 AM Re: New Nord Italian Grand [Re: Dave Ferris]  
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Originally Posted by Dave Ferris
Here's a recording of the Large Fazioli sample.

Clare Fischer's classic "Pensativa"
http://soundcloud.com/dave-ferris/pensativa-clare-fischer/s-sg4pI


That's fantastic Dave! The stereo is the wrong way round by the way - but it's still fantastic!

I think this new Faz is the best Nord sample yet - or it's certainly the least idiosyncratic. There's nothing that has the potential to annoy. I really wanted to like the Bosendorfer but it's so nasal in the mids/upper mids - a real turn-off for me.

#2003449 - 12/23/12 10:39 AM Re: New Nord Italian Grand [Re: voxpops]  
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Have you all found the large Faz sample to be better balanced than the XL? It takes too long to download the XL sample to really get a subjective opinion for my ears. What about your ears?


Yamaha AvantGrand N1
Nord Piano 2


"Be who you are and say how you feel. Because those who mind don't matter, and those who matter don't mind." - Dr. Seuss
#2003584 - 12/23/12 05:22 PM Re: New Nord Italian Grand [Re: voxpops]  
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I've just taken off the XL and replaced it with the Large so I can get another couple of pianos into my Nord Piano. I can't really hear much difference. I certainly don't feel like it is significantly inferior (if at all). I suppose the best way would be to clear off some pianos and load both L and XL into it and swap between them.

#2003590 - 12/23/12 05:38 PM Re: New Nord Italian Grand [Re: voxpops]  
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I went back and forth between the XL and L Fazioli for a while (for the first time I could check an XL on my Electro 3HP). The main difference seems to be that the XL is a fully mapped, not a stretched sample. You can hear the difference when doing chromatic scales. In the L and M sizes there are recognizable jumps between some stretch groups.

If you don't listen for it, and in actual playing, I doubt you would notice it a lot. I'm actually fine with the M version myself (see earlier post).

#2003607 - 12/23/12 06:12 PM Re: New Nord Italian Grand [Re: voxpops]  
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Notice that the entire Fazioli sample is not as loud as the other ones. Really noticeable when you change samples. You'd have to adjust the volume.



Pianoclues.com for Beginners
My Jazz Blog
Hamburg Steinway O, Nord Electro 4 HP

#2003713 - 12/23/12 11:05 PM Re: New Nord Italian Grand [Re: voxpops]  
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I've been spending lots of time with the Fazioli sample and it is definitely hands down the best Nord has come out with. It's much more even, warm, yet can be bright, and is versatile. Very happy with it.


Yamaha AvantGrand N1
Nord Piano 2


"Be who you are and say how you feel. Because those who mind don't matter, and those who matter don't mind." - Dr. Seuss
#2006209 - 12/29/12 07:44 PM Re: New Nord Italian Grand [Re: PianoZac]  
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#2006213 - 12/29/12 07:50 PM Re: New Nord Italian Grand [Re: Dave Ferris]  
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Originally Posted by Dave Ferris
I was able to use the new Nord Fazioli XL sample last night in a jazz trio context with the Nord Piano 2 and it was excellent. Nord's best sample to date without question.


Yes, I've been using it a lot. I think the new Faz is so good because it manages to have no vices whilst also not being bland or boring - quite an achievement.

#2006214 - 12/29/12 07:51 PM Re: New Nord Italian Grand [Re: Dave Ferris]  
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Originally Posted by Dave Ferris
Seemed like I played better...maybe it was psychological,...


LOL -- I have to admit I felt this too. I felt satisfied with the sound coming out. And somehow it translated as well to my being more tolerant of the action.

The over-sensitivity of the velocity response curve in other samples played tricks with my brain.

The only problem is that on my particular monitors (I don't have my PA plugged in), the volume is way down now. I'm too lazy to unpack my mixers/PA to pre-amp the signal. But it shows the shift in thinking at Clavia with respect to velocity curves.

Haven't tested it live yet though. My next few gigs are with a real Grand.


Pianoclues.com for Beginners
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Hamburg Steinway O, Nord Electro 4 HP

#2006220 - 12/29/12 08:05 PM Re: New Nord Italian Grand [Re: jazzwee]  
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#2006399 - 12/30/12 07:39 AM Re: New Nord Italian Grand [Re: voxpops]  
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Great recording Dave. I'm always impressed with how natural the Nord records, versus so many other digitals. I'm in agreement with you and Steve, the Fazioli is the best sample to date by Nord. It finally supplanted the Studio Grand 2 C7 as my favorite. I find it interesting that the Large sample of the Faz is nearly 100MB, noticeably larger than the other Large samples, yet the XL size is the smallest yet, and interestingly still, the Faz is the most even sample.
Originally Posted by Dave Ferris
Originally Posted by jazzwee
Haven't tested it live yet though. My next few gigs are with a real Grand.


Yeah last night would have been a good test to see if I felt a disconnect with it. On Thursday I did a 3.5 hour solo gig on a Faziloi 212 in a private residence.

Incredible piano ! What do I have to do to get one ? cool (no, not selling the D)

So I was definitely ready for "I hate all digital pianos " mode.. grin Surprisingly enough, that wasn't the case last night.

No I don't think your nuts. I really believe when you're confident in your sound, it reflects directly in your playing. By the way Dave, how did the Fazioli sample sound vs the real deal F212?? smile

Last edited by PianoZac; 12/30/12 07:56 AM.

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"Be who you are and say how you feel. Because those who mind don't matter, and those who matter don't mind." - Dr. Seuss
#2006400 - 12/30/12 07:42 AM Re: New Nord Italian Grand [Re: voxpops]  
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No room at the inn for this on my stage 2 I'd have to delete some rather nice stuff .... Worth it ?


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Disclosure : I am professionally associated with Arturia but my sentiments are my own only.
#2006408 - 12/30/12 07:54 AM Re: New Nord Italian Grand [Re: Dr Popper]  
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Originally Posted by Dr Popper
No room at the inn for this on my stage 2 I'd have to delete some rather nice stuff .... Worth it ?
Definitely! At least have this as your main AP sample. Even the Large, at 97.3MB is a very nice, dynamic, and detailed sample. The XL just sounds a little bit bigger (as it should being fully mapped).


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"Be who you are and say how you feel. Because those who mind don't matter, and those who matter don't mind." - Dr. Seuss
#2006411 - 12/30/12 08:03 AM Re: New Nord Italian Grand [Re: PianoZac]  
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Quote
The XL just sounds a little bit bigger (as it should being fully mapped)


What does "fully mapped" mean ? I know Nord likes to hype their samples being "fully mapped" smile

Last edited by voodooblues; 12/30/12 08:04 AM.
#2006412 - 12/30/12 08:04 AM Re: New Nord Italian Grand [Re: voxpops]  
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I think they mean fewer notes per sample (ie, less stretching). I don't think the XL versions are 88 note sampled though. I think there's still some stretching going on.

#2006415 - 12/30/12 08:14 AM Re: New Nord Italian Grand [Re: voxpops]  
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Would be interesting to see XL sample going through DPBSD test

#2006418 - 12/30/12 08:21 AM Re: New Nord Italian Grand [Re: voxpops]  
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Yes, I'll see if I can do that this evening...

#2006422 - 12/30/12 08:37 AM Re: New Nord Italian Grand [Re: voxpops]  
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I was under the impression that XL 'fully mapped' referred to 88-key sampling...

Is this not the case?

James
x


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#2006430 - 12/30/12 08:50 AM Re: New Nord Italian Grand [Re: PianoZac]  
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Originally Posted by PianoZac
I find it interesting that the Large sample of the Faz is nearly 100MB, noticeably larger than the other Large samples, yet the XL size is the smallest yet

Interesting observation. Since the difference between an XL and an L is that they sample more keys in the XL (all of them, I believe), then I think the relatively large size of the L probably means that that version includes closer to the same number of samples that the XL does, compared to other L/XL pairs, i.e. there is less stretching than on other Ls. The fact that this XL is smaller than other XLs tells me that it has less something than other XLs, though we don't know what. Maybe fewer velocity layers (arguably, not every piano benefits equally from the same number, as the timbre variation from soft to loud is more extreme in some acoustics than others). It could also be shorter samples (attack portions and/or loop portions, the latter more conceivable, if the tone of the piano happened to lend itself to shorter loops that worked). If I get a chance (and no one beats me to it), maybe I'll get copies of these to dewster for DPBSD analysis.

#2006441 - 12/30/12 09:09 AM Re: New Nord Italian Grand [Re: Kawai James]  
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Originally Posted by Kawai James
I was under the impression that XL 'fully mapped' referred to 88-key sampling...

Is this not the case?

James
x


Yes I know what you mean James. But for some reason I suspect not. I bet it's "more mapped" and not "fully mapped". Nord's benchmark for "fully mapped" may not actually mean 88 note sampling. I'll have a close listen later. Stretch groups are usually easy to hear.

#2006450 - 12/30/12 09:33 AM Re: New Nord Italian Grand [Re: voxpops]  
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EssBrace, I expect you may have read this already, but just in case, here's the explanation from the Nord site:

Quote
The Lrg, Med and Sml sizes share the same amount of velocity layers, and the same number of zones that are mapped across the keyboard. This means that you can rely on a consistent quality in regards to the playability and expressiveness in the basic sound of every piano, no matter which of these sizes you choose to install in your Nord Piano Library compatible unit.

The Extra Large versions are fully mapped accross the keyboard which increases the size a bit. The velocity layers are the same as on the other sizes.

The Large versions have String Resonance samples all across the keyboard, providing you with a very full sound.

The Medium versions have String Resonance samples in the important middle region of the range, but omit these in the lowest and the highest areas. This gives you a good ratio of functionality and size.

Sml is the version that uses the least amount of space in the piano memory, but still carry a big and powerful punch. This version does not contain any String Resonance samples at all. If an Sml piano is selected in the Nord unit, the String Resonance feature (if applicable) will be disabled.




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#2006473 - 12/30/12 10:20 AM Re: New Nord Italian Grand [Re: Kawai James]  
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Originally Posted by Kawai James
EssBrace, I expect you may have read this already, but...
Quote
The Extra Large versions are fully mapped accross the keyboard


Yup, that's the relevant passage, and the only published reference to the feature that I know of, and the question is one of how precisely it was written. They never say "88." That is a logical interpretation of "fully mapped" as a differentiating feature, but it's not completely unambiguous. Especially when you consider that a simple omission of a word could completely alter it, i.e. "Extra Large versions are more fully mapped accross the keyboard." (Something like that could happen as a kind of typographical error, or confusion between an engineer and a copywriter, or even the fact that English isn't their first language over there.) Also, a phrase like "fully mapped" could technically be whatever the manufacturer defines it to be. For example, it's not impossible that Nord's definition is along the lines of "we usually assign samples to every 3 to 5 keys, but our fully mapped version assign a sample for every two keys" -- that is, it could be fully mapped by their standards. I still think it's likely that they do mean all 88, but until destwer does an XL analysis, I would say that the web text alone is not 100% conclusive.

#2006526 - 12/30/12 12:47 PM Re: New Nord Italian Grand [Re: voxpops]  
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I need to reload the XL version onto my NP88. The Large version is stretched - just been playing it. Although on this new Faz the transitions are in many cases very good indeed. But I've found a couple of obvious clusters where there is clearly three notes per sample. So maybe the XL really is 88 note sampled. The DPBSD will reveal all....

#2006531 - 12/30/12 12:54 PM Re: New Nord Italian Grand [Re: voxpops]  
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I take it the Extra Large version has String Resonance samples across the keyboard like the Medium and Large?

#2006600 - 12/30/12 03:17 PM Re: New Nord Italian Grand [Re: voxpops]  
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From what I've read, the XL versions are 88 key sampled, non stretched, full string resonance. This makes sense because the XL samples in the Nord Piano Library are far larger than the typical 40-80MB sample size in most other DPs like Yamaha, Roland, Kawai, Korg, Casio, etc. The Fazioli is the nicest piano sample by FAR that Clavia has released.


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#2006714 - 12/30/12 07:51 PM Re: New Nord Italian Grand [Re: voxpops]  
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A couple of recent YT vids I've just found...The first compares Nord Grand Imperial (Bosendorfer) and the new Italian Grand (Fazioli). The second is a piece this guy has written and he plays it using the Italian Grand. I think the first video is a classic example of how something sounds different when you just listen as opposed to playing. I feel that the first video flatters the Bosendorfer because when I play it I hear a thinnish nasal quality on the mids/upper mids that I rather dislike. To play the new Fazioli is vastly preferable to me. But they both sound good on video 1.

1. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N5Wwz1mNmEY

2. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Gp79RpIL8ps

Cheers,

Steve

#2006734 - 12/30/12 08:28 PM Re: New Nord Italian Grand [Re: voxpops]  
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I know this thread is a lovefest for Nord and I really want to love or at least like very much their acoustic pianos but I just keep hearing "fake..."

I didn't hear much of a difference between the imperial and the Italian grand. Add a sub-par action and I just can't jump on board yet.

(I know no one really cares what I think but there you go. I have the means, so I shall add my opinion.)

cheers.


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#2006738 - 12/30/12 08:35 PM Re: New Nord Italian Grand [Re: voxpops]  
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Nord sound + decent action = fantastic playing experience. wink

James
x


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#2006752 - 12/30/12 08:59 PM Re: New Nord Italian Grand [Re: 36251]  
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Originally Posted by 36251
I know this thread is a lovefest for Nord and I really want to love or at least like very much their acoustic pianos but I just keep hearing "fake..."

I didn't hear much of a difference between the imperial and the Italian grand. Add a sub-par action and I just can't jump on board yet.


We hear things differently. Fake is the last word I'd use to describe any Nord Piano sounds. I find them more real sounding and characterful than any other hardware DP. And in practice the Bosie and Faz are very different beasts to my ears. I do agree the action is weaker than many others, there's no doubt about that - but it interacts with the sounds well. I'm currently playing Nord's sounds using MP10's keyboard so I'm pretty happy with that combination although I don't like having both pianos out in the room because it just looks a mess.

#2006786 - 12/30/12 10:22 PM Re: New Nord Italian Grand [Re: 36251]  
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Originally Posted by 36251
I know this thread is a lovefest for Nord and I really want to love or at least like very much their acoustic pianos but I just keep hearing "fake..."

I was thinking it must be something to do with the live experience with other gear and a band. I guess it is the whole package being greater with the new sound.

#2006787 - 12/30/12 10:24 PM Re: New Nord Italian Grand [Re: voxpops]  
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My Nords were leaps and bounds ahead of my old AvantGrand N1. There was no comparison. With headphones, the N1 sounded like a Clavinova sadly. I used to midi the N1 and Nord to use the N1 action to control the far better acoustic sounds of the Nord...that was cool!!

Last edited by PianoZac; 12/30/12 10:24 PM.

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#2006791 - 12/30/12 10:31 PM Re: New Nord Italian Grand [Re: EssBrace]  
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Originally Posted by EssBrace
Fake is the last word I'd use to describe any Nord Piano sounds.
OK, fake is a little strong and I'm strictly referring to the acoustic pianos. I was just checking out some more YouTube vids. I'd say from middle C up, the samples are just not long enough for my ears. The very top is really lacking any length or woodness to sound real.

I guess it's tough after playing gigs using Vintage D. And I'll be bias and say the Roland FP4 is also more to my liking for acoustic. Nord certainly has the other sounds right on.

I'm leaving my N2 out of this discussion since I don't gig with that, but I'm totally satisfied with the live sound that generates.

Last edited by 36251; 12/30/12 10:34 PM.

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#2006798 - 12/30/12 10:51 PM Re: New Nord Italian Grand [Re: voxpops]  
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I have no loyalty to a DP just because I happen to have it. I've criticized my past DP's heavily, including this one.

BUT -- after playing with the Faz sample, I'm wowed. I don't think there's another board that would do it for me.

And listening to Youtubes, etc. doesn't help. I listened the original recordings of the Faz including Youtube samples and had a negative opinion until I played it. I didn't realize how good it felt for a player and how tweakable the sound is.

Is this the only sample where there's 100% agreement by everyone as the favorite? I don't recall any other sample being voted unanimously at the top of the pile. I haven't heard of a dissenter in two forums so far.


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#2006816 - 12/30/12 11:52 PM Re: New Nord Italian Grand [Re: 36251]  
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Originally Posted by 36251
I guess it's tough after playing gigs using Vintage D.


Interesting, you play gigs with a software piano? What kind of a setup do you have?

Cheers,
James
x


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#2006880 - 12/31/12 05:16 AM Re: New Nord Italian Grand [Re: jazzwee]  
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Originally Posted by jazzwee
I have no loyalty to a DP just because I happen to have it. I've criticized my past DP's heavily, including this one.

BUT -- after playing with the Faz sample, I'm wowed. I don't think there's another board that would do it for me.

And listening to Youtubes, etc. doesn't help. I listened the original recordings of the Faz including Youtube samples and had a negative opinion until I played it. I didn't realize how good it felt for a player and how tweakable the sound is.

Is this the only sample where there's 100% agreement by everyone as the favorite? I don't recall any other sample being voted unanimously at the top of the pile. I haven't heard of a dissenter in two forums so far.


+1

#2006900 - 12/31/12 07:30 AM Re: New Nord Italian Grand [Re: Kawai James]  
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Originally Posted by Kawai James
Interesting, you play gigs with a software piano? What kind of a setup do you have?
FP4 and HP laptop. I use Traktor Audio 2 and plug stereo jacks into FP4 input (so I can always switch to FP4 if there's a software issue.) I either run mono or stereo to my ancient GK keyboard amps and have the onboard speakers of FP4 adding some sound. I use Vintage D and NeoSoul for EP.

I'm playing strictly jazz gigs so I don't need to switch programs once I dial them in. For Vintage D, I'm currently using "In da jazz club?" preset.

I've never been more satisfied with the sound and action of this combo. When I suck, I can only blame myself smile


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#2006908 - 12/31/12 07:46 AM Re: New Nord Italian Grand [Re: voxpops]  
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New products, sound libraries, etc seem to be praised by their first adopters. I think it has something to do with the higher expectations. I guess we'll have least biased reviews when the hype surrounding a new free library sound (extremely cool Christmas present for Nord users indeed) settles down a bit.


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#2006947 - 12/31/12 09:31 AM Re: New Nord Italian Grand [Re: voxpops]  
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I'm not being paid to use Nord keyboards nor am I given free gear. My enthusiasm comes from the quality of their products from the build quality, the simplistic design layout (excellent for giggers), the weight and portability, the free sample libraries, the constant updates to either the libraries ir the software (like adding functionality i.e. adding Long Release to the NP88), and not least of which, the excellent sound quality and genuine variety.

I have my complaints about the action and I'm not a fan of all of their sounds, but Nord offers a very unique product and approach. I am a multiple repeat buyer and supporter because their product works. No honeymoon here!


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#2006965 - 12/31/12 10:04 AM Re: New Nord Italian Grand [Re: voxpops]  
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Another unpaid member of Club Red here. While I have my criticisms I enjoy Clavia's open concept, and the quality of their instruments. That new piano sound just proves again that their way of doing things is a refreshingly good one.


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#2006966 - 12/31/12 10:06 AM Re: New Nord Italian Grand [Re: Kawai James]  
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Originally Posted by Kawai James
Nord sound + decent action = fantastic playing experience. wink

... waiting ...

#2006971 - 12/31/12 10:18 AM Re: New Nord Italian Grand [Re: voxpops]  
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I'm going to assume that Nord knows that their action is sub par? I wonder what their thinking is by not implementing at least a decent action with their boards.

#2006977 - 12/31/12 10:25 AM Re: New Nord Italian Grand [Re: btcomm]  
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Originally Posted by btcomm
I'm going to assume that Nord knows that their action is sub par? I wonder what their thinking is by not implementing at least a decent action with their boards.


I can only assume weight. It would be interesting to discover what the bare action weighs with the Fatar action and then compare that with the better actions out there. The other issue is that Nord has to source actions from somewhere. I imagine the cost of developing their own from scratch would be prohibitive. Maybe they approached Yamaha or Roland or whoever and got shown the door?

#2006981 - 12/31/12 10:29 AM Re: New Nord Italian Grand [Re: voxpops]  
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Sure they know but I doubt there is anything they can do at the moment. James, any chance of a future joint venture between Kawai and Nord? laugh You are a Nord user and a Kawai employee, I'd bet you dream of something like that happening wink And a Happy New Year to you I guess smile


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#2006987 - 12/31/12 10:36 AM Re: New Nord Italian Grand [Re: btcomm]  
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Originally Posted by btcomm
I'm going to assume that Nord knows that their action is sub par? I wonder what their thinking is by not implementing at least a decent action with their boards.

Their thinking is that they are not equipped to manufacture their own keyboards, so they are limited to what is made available to them from other manufacturers, i.e. Fatar. (By contrast, Yamaha, Roland, Kawai, and Casio design and build their own keybeds, and don't offer them to their competitors. Luckily, it is easy to trigger a Nord from another board, which is why I sometimes suggest getting a light, unweighted Nord and then trigger it from the weighted 88 of your choice, leaving the Nord's own keybed as something to be used when playing organ or other sounds where you might not want the weighted action... best of both worlds.)

The other issue would be that their branding is based on boards that are relatively compact and portable, so even if they had a high quality action available to them, they would probably be disinclined to use it if it were to result in a 75 pound board like a Kawai MP-10.

#2006988 - 12/31/12 10:39 AM Re: New Nord Italian Grand [Re: voxpops]  
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The best way around this issue is not for Nord to develop their own action or even necessarily source a better one but to release a Nord Piano module and charge no more than £500 for it. Problem solved for us all.

#2006999 - 12/31/12 10:54 AM Re: New Nord Italian Grand [Re: EssBrace]  
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Yup, offering modules, be it rack or tabletop, would solve a lot of problems / gripes. They've done it in the past.

I'd love a Stage 2 module, as there are a ton of sounds I'd MIDI to both of my boards. As long as they're at it, double the memory on it.

Last edited by dje31; 12/31/12 10:59 AM.

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#2007005 - 12/31/12 11:01 AM Re: New Nord Italian Grand [Re: EssBrace]  
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Originally Posted by EssBrace
The best way around this issue is not for Nord to develop their own action or even necessarily source a better one but to release a Nord Piano module and charge no more than £500 for it. Problem solved for us all.

The original Nord piano was, what, £2000? The keybed was not £1500 of it, 75% of its cost. No way they sell a keyboard-less version for £500. Triple that, maybe...

#2007018 - 12/31/12 11:30 AM Re: New Nord Italian Grand [Re: anotherscott]  
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Originally Posted by anotherscott
Originally Posted by EssBrace
The best way around this issue is not for Nord to develop their own action or even necessarily source a better one but to release a Nord Piano module and charge no more than £500 for it. Problem solved for us all.

The original Nord piano was, what, £2000? The keybed was not £1500 of it, 75% of its cost. No way they sell a keyboard-less version for £500. Triple that, maybe...

Let's compromise and go £1000 then? I could consider that - especially if somebody would make a good MIDI only keyboard.

#2007037 - 12/31/12 12:02 PM Re: New Nord Italian Grand [Re: voxpops]  
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36251 Offline
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I thinks there is a chink in one's armor. The multiple people discussing their true desire for a module cause of the action. I know this isn't a new topic and understand that Nord has a made a decision to keep their brand low weight.

You also talk about how Nord supports their keyboards with updated sounds and I agree it's a wonderful system. That's until they redesign the memory limit and then you have to go spend another $3000+ (minus resale value of current model,) to stay at their cutting edge. I guess you have to give them credit for such an inventive business model. Though how gracious it would be for Nord to sell a hardware, memory update, so the consumer could avoid the depreciation.


AG N2 | CP4 | SSv3 | GK MK & MP
#2007038 - 12/31/12 12:12 PM Re: New Nord Italian Grand [Re: 36251]  
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Originally Posted by 36251
I thinks there is a chink in one's armor. The multiple people discussing their true desire for a module cause of the action. I know this isn't a new topic and understand that Nord has a made a decision to keep their brand low weight.



Wow, you're big into this fanboy thing.

First of all, all of us were aware of the limitations of the action before we bought it. And all of us would prefer a better action obviously.

But decisions are made based on what's available at the time. You make it sound like none of us would switch to a different manufacturer if they came up with something better (for gigging).

I myself gave up a new Roland FP7F. I'd switch back and forth without compunction if the need arises.

I have to say that MY COMPLAINT about the action has now been REDUCED because of the velocity response of the new sample. So without changing hardware, a major problem has been handled.


Pianoclues.com for Beginners
My Jazz Blog
Hamburg Steinway O, Nord Electro 4 HP

#2007039 - 12/31/12 12:12 PM Re: New Nord Italian Grand [Re: anotherscott]  
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Originally Posted by anotherscott
Originally Posted by EssBrace
The best way around this issue is not for Nord to develop their own action or even necessarily source a better one but to release a Nord Piano module and charge no more than £500 for it. Problem solved for us all.

The original Nord piano was, what, £2000? The keybed was not £1500 of it, 75% of its cost. No way they sell a keyboard-less version for £500. Triple that, maybe...


I take your point but the original Nord Piano was £1699. There is not just the key action to consider. It is the physical form factor - the sheer volume of materials. A single unit rack mount box that could be slotted into an off-the-shelf casing with bespoke front panel and connectors and painted red would be a lot cheaper than a Nord Piano to make in terms of basic cost. Throw in the sound engine and away you go. The Kurzweil and General Music modules - that were absolutely competitive in their day with the then current and best stage pianos - retailed around £399 at a time when the equivalent full 88 note stage pianos were £1250 or thereabouts. The Korg SG-Pro-X Rack was £599 at a time when the "mother piano", the SG-Pro-X, was £1499. Maybe I was being optimistic at £500 but there's no way it would need to be even £1000. Assuming the rack mount could be made at, let's say 40% of the cost of the "mother piano", I reckon £800 is entirely realistic against the Nord Piano 2's £2000 list price (or whatever it is).

It's a pipe dream no doubt. But a nice one.

#2007066 - 12/31/12 01:37 PM Re: New Nord Italian Grand [Re: voxpops]  
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I don't have a NORD but have played one. I too was disappointed by the action for home/studio playing of classical and modern but not pop/rock/blues/jazz music. I wondered though if the keyboard was perfectly fine for gigging with in a band, adequate for solos, and so met the Nord designers requirements. Of course better is always achievable on all or most DP's, just read the forums! smile

#2007193 - 12/31/12 07:56 PM Re: New Nord Italian Grand [Re: EssBrace]  
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Originally Posted by EssBrace
I'm currently playing Nord's sounds using MP10's keyboard so I'm pretty happy with that combination although I don't like having both pianos out in the room because it just looks a mess.


How about setting them up like this?

[Linked Image]

Happy New Year everyone!

Cheers,
James
x


Employed by Kawai Japan, however the opinions I express are my own.
Nord Electro 3 fan & occasional rare groove player.
#2007198 - 12/31/12 08:17 PM Re: New Nord Italian Grand [Re: Kawai James]  
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Originally Posted by Kawai James
How about setting them up like this?


Yes I've been looking at getting an upper tier for my Roland stand. I'll see what NAMM brings first though...

Happy New Year James and all the other Nord fanciers!

#2007226 - 12/31/12 08:57 PM Re: New Nord Italian Grand [Re: voxpops]  
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The Dave Ferris demo seems to have disappeared, before I've had a chance to listen. frown


#2007227 - 12/31/12 08:58 PM Re: New Nord Italian Grand [Re: Kawai James]  
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Originally Posted by Kawai James

How about setting them up like this?

[Linked Image]



That red is really ghastly, isn't it?

#2007255 - 12/31/12 09:53 PM Re: New Nord Italian Grand [Re: Melodialworks Music]  
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Originally Posted by Melodialworks Music
That red is really ghastly, isn't it?


Blasphemy!

No soup for you! wink


Employed by Kawai Japan, however the opinions I express are my own.
Nord Electro 3 fan & occasional rare groove player.
#2007305 - 01/01/13 02:02 AM Re: New Nord Italian Grand [Re: voxpops]  
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Happy New Years all! A New Years resolution for who've not yet experienced the Fazioli...try it this year!


Yamaha AvantGrand N1
Nord Piano 2


"Be who you are and say how you feel. Because those who mind don't matter, and those who matter don't mind." - Dr. Seuss
#2007350 - 01/01/13 06:52 AM Re: New Nord Italian Grand [Re: voxpops]  
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James - been studying that picture. Is that Photoshop at work? What is the lower keyboard there? Is the red felt photoshop'd just to match the Nord? The bevelled edge above the keys shows it is a Kawai (MP10 or similar) but the MP10 has blue felt...so is this a NEW Kawai piano/keyboard of some sort or am I getting all excited about a Photoshop creation?

Come on, put me out of the misery of my barely contained curiosity...

#2007369 - 01/01/13 07:51 AM Re: New Nord Italian Grand [Re: voxpops]  
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EssBrace, no Photoshop-ing.

This K-2 on the other hand...

[Linked Image]

Cheers,
James
x


Employed by Kawai Japan, however the opinions I express are my own.
Nord Electro 3 fan & occasional rare groove player.
#2007370 - 01/01/13 07:58 AM Re: New Nord Italian Grand [Re: Kawai James]  
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Originally Posted by Kawai James
EssBrace, no Photoshop-ing.


Mmmm, interesting! A real bit of red felt then. Maybe in a weighted 88 key piano or controller from your very own employers then.....no doubt all will be revealed in a couple of weeks in L.A?

That K2 looks good - but the combination of brassy Kawai logo and chrome fallboard hinge, pedals and casters is a fashion faux-pas. The devil's in the detail!

#2009441 - 01/05/13 12:34 PM Re: New Nord Italian Grand [Re: EssBrace]  
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In addition to bowing out of this thread because I didn't like the turn it had taken, I was uploading some new stuff to my Soundcloud page so I had to delete the original link to the Faziloi test to make room. I was still out of space so I went ahead and upgraded to the next Sc level.

I received a few PMs asking about the demo test, so to be fair to anyone who hadn't heard it, here's the Large Nord Fazioli sample again on "Pensativa"
http://soundcloud.com/dave-ferris/pensativa-clare-fischer/s-flu0C

Many have already heard this but here's the Nord Bosendorfer and Yamaha CP5 recorded last Spring of '12 again for comparison. I did use differing mic pres for these two. Due the nature of the Nord samples, I think the John Hardy Twin Servo is more flattering for the Nord Bosendorfer then the more transparent Forssell SMP-2. On the other hand, the CP5 best benefits from the Forssell to my ears. These demo tests were made before I'd purchased the JMK Audio JM-110 di/pre. For these DPs, I'd have to give the nod to the JM-110 at this time. It has the best of both worlds--transparency and just a tad of color which adds a nice vibe for the digital sound.

Nord Bosie
http://soundcloud.com/dave-ferris/gentle-rain-bonfa-nord/s-JVeeU

Yamaha CP5
http://soundcloud.com/dave-ferris/gentle-rain-bonfa-cp5/s-HMc1H

I'll leave these up here for 10 days or so and then probably delete them...so go ahead and download them now, if so desired, as opposed to later.


https://soundcloud.com/dave-ferris

2005 NY Steinway D
Yamaha CP4, CP5
#2013194 - 01/12/13 02:55 AM Re: New Nord Italian Grand [Re: Dave Ferris]  
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Dave Ferris Offline
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Originally Posted by Dave Ferris
I received a few PMs asking about the demo test, so to be fair to anyone who hadn't heard it, here's the Large Nord Fazioli sample again on "Pensativa"
http://soundcloud.com/dave-ferris/pensativa-clare-fischer/s-flu0C

Many have already heard this but here's the Nord Bosendorfer and Yamaha CP5 recorded last Spring of '12 again for comparison. I did use differing mic pres for these two. Due the nature of the Nord samples, I think the John Hardy Twin Servo is more flattering for the Nord Bosendorfer then the more transparent Forssell SMP-2. On the other hand, the CP5 best benefits from the Forssell to my ears. These demo tests were made before I'd purchased the JMK Audio JM-110 di/pre. For these DPs, I'd have to give the nod to the JM-110 at this time. It has the best of both worlds--transparency and just a tad of color which adds a nice vibe for the digital sound.

Nord Bosie
http://soundcloud.com/dave-ferris/gentle-rain-bonfa-nord/s-JVeeU

Yamaha CP5
http://soundcloud.com/dave-ferris/gentle-rain-bonfa-cp5/s-HMc1H

I'll leave these up here for 10 days or so and then probably delete them...so go ahead and download them now, if so desired, as opposed to later.


This is a cross post from the KC forum.

Again, perhaps heard by a few already, here's the Nord Bright Grand XL in action last year on a student demo at LA Music Academy. So now you have all these most recent Nord sample clips in one place.

This is a first take on the student's composition and recorded live in the studio. Piano comping solo for trumpet solo starts at 2:00 and then piano solo around 3:05:

http://soundcloud.com/dave-ferris/nord-xl-bright-grand-at-lama/s-5VYB3


https://soundcloud.com/dave-ferris

2005 NY Steinway D
Yamaha CP4, CP5
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