Welcome to the Piano World Piano Forums
Over 2.5 million posts about pianos, digital pianos, and all types of keyboard instruments
Join the World's Largest Community of Piano Lovers (it's free)
It's Fun to Play the Piano ... Please Pass It On!

SEARCH
Piano Forums & Piano World
What's Hot!!
Posting Pictures on the Forums
-------------------
Forums RULES & HELP
-------------------
ADVERTISE on Piano World
(125ad)
Piano Life Saver - Dampp Chaser
Dampp Chaser Piano Life Saver
(ad)
Piano Buyer Guide
Piano Buyer Fall 2017
Who's Online Now
52 registered members (Beemer, barbaram, andyhuang, Agent88, 10 invisible), 1,710 guests, and 2 spiders.
Key: Admin, Global Mod, Mod
(ad)
Estonia Pianos
Estonia Pianos
Quick Links to Useful Piano & Music Resources
Our Classified Ads
Find Piano Professionals-

*Piano Dealers - Piano Stores
*Piano Tuners
*Piano Teachers
*Piano Movers
*Piano Restorations
*Piano Manufacturers

Quick Links:
*Advertise On Piano World
*Free Piano Newsletter
*Online Piano Recitals
*Piano Recitals Index
*Piano & Music Accessories
*Live Piano Venues
*Music School Listings
* Buying a Piano
*Buying A Acoustic Piano
*Buying a Digital Piano
*Pianos for Sale
*Sell Your Piano
*How Old is My Piano?
*Directory/Site Map
*Virtual Piano
*Music Word Search
*Piano Videos
*Virtual Piano Chords & Scales
Previous Thread
Next Thread
Print Thread
#2001678 - 12/19/12 12:08 PM Beginner Question  
Joined: Dec 2012
Posts: 2
Cth6 Offline
Junior Member
Cth6  Offline
Junior Member

Joined: Dec 2012
Posts: 2
I apologize up front if this has been asked before, I searched the 600 pages but could not find what I was looking for. Probably because I am sure I am not using the correct terms.

I have been playing on and off for a few years now. My instructor was teaching based on Hal Leonard's EZ Play music. While fingering was correct, we were not putting emphasis on a classical learning style. The key focus was was flourishing the left hand as opposed to playing the chords in one motion. Basically playing C, then E, then G on a 3/4 as opposed to CEG at the same time for the measure. We were in the process of taking that to the next level for multiple time signatures and beats as well as other techniques. I can play in most keys, but clearly most comfortable in C. Unfortunately, he passed away and I have been struggling to find an instructor that is familiar with that technique in my area.

So that brings me to this point. I am really not interested in learning the classical style of playing the piano. I have tried a few times and it is not for me. I enjoy picking up a piece of sheet music like Piano Man, playing the melody and plusing it up with my left hand. Playing is very much a stress reliever for me. I have reached out to more instructors and piano stores then I ever imagined. Is there a name for that kind of teaching or technique? Are there any good books, websites, or videos that I can leverage to further my teaching.

Thanks.

CT

(ad)
Piano & Music Accessories
piano accessories music gifts tuning and moving equipment
#2001711 - 12/19/12 01:23 PM Re: Beginner Question [Re: Cth6]  
Joined: Apr 2010
Posts: 2,496
Andy Platt Offline
2000 Post Club Member
Andy Platt  Offline
2000 Post Club Member

Joined: Apr 2010
Posts: 2,496
Virginia, USA
There are books called "Fake books" that are basically chords and melody to improvise around and this sounds like the approach you want. I think if you look for a teacher who can teach improvisation or pop you will be happy. Some teachers, even ones who specialize in that area, may want to teach a basic classical foundation but hopefully you'll find what you are after.

(Caveat here: I am with a classical teacher who doesn't know one pop song to the next ... so I have zero experience of having a teacher like that.)


  • Debussy - Le Petit Nègre, L. 114
  • Haydn - Sonata in Gm, Hob. XVI/44

Kawai K3
[Linked Image][Linked Image][Linked Image]
#2001759 - 12/19/12 02:52 PM Re: Beginner Question [Re: Cth6]  
Joined: Jun 2005
Posts: 5,446
Derulux Offline
5000 Post Club Member
Derulux  Offline
5000 Post Club Member

Joined: Jun 2005
Posts: 5,446
Philadelphia
Yes, absolutely. My first piano teacher was a wonderful jazz/blues/improv pianist. They are out there, you just have to find one that specializes in what you want. So ask these exact questions when you talk to teachers, and see what they offer. The good ones will tell you yes or no straight away. The bad ones will beat around the bush.


Every day we are afforded a new chance. The problem with life is not that you run out of chances. In the end, what you run out of are days.
#2001763 - 12/19/12 02:59 PM Re: Beginner Question [Re: Andy Platt]  
Joined: Dec 2012
Posts: 2
Cth6 Offline
Junior Member
Cth6  Offline
Junior Member

Joined: Dec 2012
Posts: 2
Thanks Andy. The fake books are great to identify the chord to accentuate the melody. I actually use them all of the time. I was learning ways to play those chords. On a 3/4 measure it is easy to play arpeggiation with basic chords. I am really interested in other ways to make them interesting. What if I add the 7th to a C chord. Playing 4 notes in a 3/4 measure with arpeggiation does not sound right to me.

I am not sure if I am explaining my desire effectively.

(ad ) MusicNotes.com
sheet music search
#2001776 - 12/19/12 03:26 PM Re: Beginner Question [Re: Cth6]  
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 3,891
rocket88 Offline
3000 Post Club Member
rocket88  Offline
3000 Post Club Member

Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 3,891
Much of what one needs to play any style of music is taught in a "Classical" teaching format.

If taught "correctly", i.e. completely, Classical training includes technique, theory, composition, etc, all of which are not specific to Classical, but are applicable to much of music.

After all, its the same, notes, same keyboard, same fingers/hand, same note reading, etc.

I guess what I am trying to say is that the fundamentals are much the same, and a Classical teacher is more easy to find, and what you learn there will filter into whatever you want to play.

And, Jazz teaching is very similar in the respect as Classical, i.e. emphasis on theory, technique, etc.

A good example is Billy Joel, who was Classically trained. From Wikipedia:

Quote
Joel's father was an accomplished classical pianist. Billy reluctantly began piano lessons at an early age, at his mother's insistence; his teachers included the noted American pianist Morton Estrin, and musician/songwriter Timothy Ford


So if you can't find anyone specific, that may be the way to go, because much of what you learn will ultimately help you. I was classically trained, and glad of it, because I have a good foundation, but it certainly has not limited my ability to play anything else; If anything, it has greatly helped it. Check out the free tune in my signature...definatly not Classical!

All the best!


Piano teacher and Blues and Boogie-Woogie pianist.
#2004129 - 12/24/12 10:00 PM Re: Beginner Question [Re: Cth6]  
Joined: May 2012
Posts: 2,209
Greener Offline

Platinum Supporter until July 22 2014
Greener  Offline

Platinum Supporter until July 22 2014


Joined: May 2012
Posts: 2,209
Toronto, Canada
Originally Posted by Cth6

fake books are great to identify the chord
...
I was learning ways to play those chords.
...
I am really interested in other ways to make them interesting.
...


1) Solid chords
2) Broken chords
3) Walking bass
4) Stride
5) Any combination of above

"What if I add the 7th to a C chord."

If you can add the 7th, you can probably add the 9th as well, but you can not always add the 7th to a major or minor triad. Sometimes you can, or maybe the 6th will work instead, or again maybe not. Your ear will tell you what fits.

There are numerous teaching websites available and if you do enough digging, you may be able to find something you like.

I found this one to be quite good for this particular piece I was interested in. It will also give you some ideas for chord comping.



[Linked Image]
#2004141 - 12/24/12 10:52 PM Re: Beginner Question [Re: Greener]  
Joined: Jul 2012
Posts: 935
Michael_99 Offline
500 Post Club Member
Michael_99  Offline
500 Post Club Member

Joined: Jul 2012
Posts: 935
Canada Alberta
Great video. Thanks for posting. Especially nice is that I can hear the video and many I cannot hear.

#2004182 - 12/25/12 01:51 AM Re: Beginner Question [Re: rocket88]  
Joined: Aug 2012
Posts: 3,176
outo Offline
3000 Post Club Member
outo  Offline
3000 Post Club Member

Joined: Aug 2012
Posts: 3,176
Finland
Originally Posted by rocket88
Much of what one needs to play any style of music is taught in a "Classical" teaching format.

If taught "correctly", i.e. completely, Classical training includes technique, theory, composition, etc, all of which are not specific to Classical, but are applicable to much of music.

After all, its the same, notes, same keyboard, same fingers/hand, same note reading, etc.

I guess what I am trying to say is that the fundamentals are much the same, and a Classical teacher is more easy to find, and what you learn there will filter into whatever you want to play.

And, Jazz teaching is very similar in the respect as Classical, i.e. emphasis on theory, technique, etc.



You may be right in theory, but in practice it usually isn't so. Proper classical training takes a long time and concentrates much on teaching tradition and specialized techniques that would not be needed at all when playing the way the op wants to play. Where I live there are clearly too types of teachers, those who are classical and may or may not be willing/able to teach something else too and then those who specialise in teaching more improvised style of playing and pop/jazz. Having a classical teacher can kill one enthusiasm pretty quick if the student is not at all interested in classical piano music. If one is lucky one may find a teacher that is good at adapting his methods and teaching material to the student's needs, but not everyone can...

#2004242 - 12/25/12 09:03 AM Re: Beginner Question [Re: outo]  
Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 16,155
Morodiene Offline
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member
Morodiene  Offline
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member

Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 16,155
Boynton Beach, FL
Originally Posted by outo
Originally Posted by rocket88
Much of what one needs to play any style of music is taught in a "Classical" teaching format.

If taught "correctly", i.e. completely, Classical training includes technique, theory, composition, etc, all of which are not specific to Classical, but are applicable to much of music.

After all, its the same, notes, same keyboard, same fingers/hand, same note reading, etc.

I guess what I am trying to say is that the fundamentals are much the same, and a Classical teacher is more easy to find, and what you learn there will filter into whatever you want to play.

And, Jazz teaching is very similar in the respect as Classical, i.e. emphasis on theory, technique, etc.



You may be right in theory, but in practice it usually isn't so. Proper classical training takes a long time and concentrates much on teaching tradition and specialized techniques that would not be needed at all when playing the way the op wants to play. Where I live there are clearly too types of teachers, those who are classical and may or may not be willing/able to teach something else too and then those who specialise in teaching more improvised style of playing and pop/jazz. Having a classical teacher can kill one enthusiasm pretty quick if the student is not at all interested in classical piano music. If one is lucky one may find a teacher that is good at adapting his methods and teaching material to the student's needs, but not everyone can...


Many jazz teachers I know (especially those in universities) prefer to only take students who are able to show a certain level of playing classical repertoire so that they don't have to teach any of that. I think that if you want to do jazz, you can do so with the right classical teacher who can give you some tips in jazz as you are getting the basics. Ideally, you'd find a jazz teacher who can address technical issues too, but those are just about as rare.


private piano/voice teacher FT

[Linked Image][Linked Image][Linked Image]
[Linked Image]
#2004283 - 12/25/12 12:27 PM Re: Beginner Question [Re: Morodiene]  
Joined: Aug 2012
Posts: 3,176
outo Offline
3000 Post Club Member
outo  Offline
3000 Post Club Member

Joined: Aug 2012
Posts: 3,176
Finland
Originally Posted by Morodiene
Originally Posted by outo
Originally Posted by rocket88
Much of what one needs to play any style of music is taught in a "Classical" teaching format.

If taught "correctly", i.e. completely, Classical training includes technique, theory, composition, etc, all of which are not specific to Classical, but are applicable to much of music.

After all, its the same, notes, same keyboard, same fingers/hand, same note reading, etc.

I guess what I am trying to say is that the fundamentals are much the same, and a Classical teacher is more easy to find, and what you learn there will filter into whatever you want to play.

And, Jazz teaching is very similar in the respect as Classical, i.e. emphasis on theory, technique, etc.



You may be right in theory, but in practice it usually isn't so. Proper classical training takes a long time and concentrates much on teaching tradition and specialized techniques that would not be needed at all when playing the way the op wants to play. Where I live there are clearly too types of teachers, those who are classical and may or may not be willing/able to teach something else too and then those who specialise in teaching more improvised style of playing and pop/jazz. Having a classical teacher can kill one enthusiasm pretty quick if the student is not at all interested in classical piano music. If one is lucky one may find a teacher that is good at adapting his methods and teaching material to the student's needs, but not everyone can...


Many jazz teachers I know (especially those in universities) prefer to only take students who are able to show a certain level of playing classical repertoire so that they don't have to teach any of that. I think that if you want to do jazz, you can do so with the right classical teacher who can give you some tips in jazz as you are getting the basics. Ideally, you'd find a jazz teacher who can address technical issues too, but those are just about as rare.


Certainly we are not talking about university level jazz teachers here, if the OP wants to learn to play popular melodies with some improvisation on chords. I don't know where you live, but around here there are numerous teachers who teach that and they are quite popular among adult beginners who are not interested in learning anything else.

I guess my idea of learning classical piano is not being able to play through a few method books. The way my teacher teachers goes so in depth (and I am not talking about theory, but the production of sound) and requires so much hard work from me that if my goal wasn't to actually play advanced classical stuff one day I would have run away pretty soon smile

#2004371 - 12/25/12 08:04 PM Re: Beginner Question [Re: Cth6]  
Joined: Aug 2012
Posts: 9
Daniel Johnson III Offline
Junior Member
Daniel Johnson III  Offline
Junior Member

Joined: Aug 2012
Posts: 9
Maryland, Resident of the U.S.
Most definitely. It looked as if your instructor had you doing a technique called "Alberti" bass. Essentially, Alberti bass is a common pattern in classical music that consists of repeating a pattern such as; C,G,E,G. It's a common left hand technique in Baroque music, and you'll see it occur in some early classical also; and as the time period moved on, it was used more for embellishing a phrase rather than structuring a piece.

The solution to your problem is simple. I don't know whether you want to play jazz or not as you never mentioned that you did. So, my solution would be this; you should try establishing a chord progression. Play around with sounds. Duke Ellington once said "if it sounds good, it is good". You can't go wrong! Try to experiment with just major and minor sevenths first. Then build and start implementing diminished and augmented chords. The introduce dominant or also known as (Major/minor)chords, into the mix.

My training system will show you in five videos how scales work in building your own chord progressions and eventually making distinct musical phrases out of them. Check it out below, hey, it's free!

Last edited by Daniel Johnson III; 12/25/12 08:11 PM.

Visit My Website For My Free Piano Training Course
http://www.danspianotutorials.com/subscribe.html

Moderated by  BB Player, casinitaly 

Piano Acc. & Gift Items in
Piano World's Online Store
In PianoSupplies.com ,(a division of Piano World)
our online store for piano and music gifts and accessories, Digital Piano Dolly, party goods, tuning equipment, piano moving equipment, benches, lamps Caster Cups and more.


Free Shipping* on Jansen Artist Piano Benches, Cocoweb Piano Lamps, Hidrau Hydraulic Piano Benches
(*free shipping within contiguous U.S. only)
(ad)
Pearl River & Ritmuller
Ritmuller Pianos
(ad)
Pianoteq
PianoTeq 6 Out now
ad
Pierce Piano Atlas


New Topics - Multiple Forums
Minimum Tuning Pin Torque
by Weiyan. 11/19/17 11:47 PM
What are the best pins?
by cordoba. 11/19/17 06:50 PM
Can't load MP3 files on Kawai ES8
by David Macob. 11/19/17 03:34 PM
Digital Piano Recommendations
by One Fish Two Fish. 11/19/17 01:58 PM
Should I hear beating with my stretch?
by Beemer. 11/19/17 01:16 PM
Forum Statistics
Forums44
Topics182,847
Posts2,673,033
Members89,164
Most Online15,252
Mar 21st, 2010
(ad)
Accu-Tuner
Sanderson Accu-Tuner
Check It Out!
There's a lot more to Piano World than just the forums.
Click Here to
Explore The Rest of Piano World!!
Visit our online store for gifts for music lovers


 
Help keep the forums up and running with a donation, any amount is appreciated!
Or by becoming a Subscribing member! Thank-you.
Donate   Subscribe
 
Our Piano Related Classified Ads
| Dealers | Tuners | Lessons | Movers | Restorations | Pianos For Sale | Sell Your Piano |

Advertise on Piano World
| Subscribe | Piano World | PianoSupplies.com | Advertise on Piano World |
| |Contact | Privacy | Legal | About Us | Site Map | Free Newsletter |


copyright 1997 - 2017 Piano World ® all rights reserved
No part of this site may be reproduced without prior written permission
Powered by UBB.threads™ PHP Forum Software 7.6.0