Welcome to the Piano World Piano Forums
Over 2.5 million posts about pianos, digital pianos, and all types of keyboard instruments
Join the World's Largest Community of Piano Lovers (it's free)
It's Fun to Play the Piano ... Please Pass It On!

SEARCH
Piano Forums & Piano World
What's Hot!!
Hurricane Irma & Our Piano Friends!
--------------------
Posting Pictures on the Forums
-------------------
Forums RULES & HELP
-------------------
ADVERTISE on Piano World
(ad)
Tuning a Piano
How to Tune Pianos
(125ad)
Piano Life Saver - Dampp Chaser
Dampp Chaser Piano Life Saver
(ad)
Piano Buyer Guide
Piano Buyer Spring 2017
(ad)
4th Finger Enigma Resolved!
Schumann's 4th Finger Enigma Resolved!
Who's Online Now
63 registered members (AprilE, AZ_Astro, AZNpiano, Beakybird, ArtlessArt, 16 invisible), 1,688 guests, and 1 spider.
Key: Admin, Global Mod, Mod
(ad)
Estonia Pianos
Estonia Pianos
Quick Links to Useful Piano & Music Resources
Our Classified Ads
Find Piano Professionals-

*Piano Dealers - Piano Stores
*Piano Tuners
*Piano Teachers
*Piano Movers
*Piano Restorations
*Piano Manufacturers

Quick Links:
*Advertise On Piano World
*Free Piano Newsletter
*Online Piano Recitals
*Piano Recitals Index
*Piano & Music Accessories
*Live Piano Venues
*Music School Listings
* Buying a Piano
*Buying A Acoustic Piano
*Buying a Digital Piano
*Pianos for Sale
*Sell Your Piano
*How Old is My Piano?
*Directory/Site Map
*Virtual Piano
*Music Word Search
*Piano Videos
*Virtual Piano Chords & Scales
Previous Thread
Next Thread
Print Thread
Page 2 of 2 1 2
#1995857 - 12/07/12 10:07 AM Re: When students have long nails and refuse to cut them [Re: Feminicricket]  
Joined: Aug 2004
Posts: 3,928
TimR Offline
3000 Post Club Member
TimR  Offline
3000 Post Club Member

Joined: Aug 2004
Posts: 3,928
Virginia, USA
Originally Posted by Feminicricket
They don`t realize the importance of curved fingers and habits that go with it.


And why is that, do you suppose?

Wouldn't you think it would be obvious?

But apparently it is not. Hmmm. Doesn't that need some thought?

It would seem they can play everything at their level fine with long fingernails. They probably suspect deep down that a scholarship to a conservatory and a career as a concert pianist WOULD require cutting them. Then again, the chances of that happening to them are less than getting hit by a meteorite.

It might also be that not everybody agrees on how curved is curved enough, or if the anatomical advantages can be conveyed some other way.

I can't stand long fingernails myself, I keep mine very short. I'm sure I could play without problems if they were half an inch longer. Longer than that I'd probably have to practice.


gotta go practice
(ad)
Piano & Music Accessories
piano accessories music gifts tuning and moving equipment
#1995896 - 12/07/12 11:45 AM Re: When students have long nails and refuse to cut them [Re: Nannerl Mozart]  
Joined: Mar 2010
Posts: 6,693
casinitaly Offline

Gold Supporter until March 1 2014
casinitaly  Offline

Gold Supporter until March 1 2014


Joined: Mar 2010
Posts: 6,693
Italy
As an adult student who had really long nails for well over 35 years, I can tell you from experience that a student won't cut their nails unless they are in love with playing the piano AND understand that long nails are an issue. Both points have to be realized.

I had long nails when I was 24 and bought my guitar......guess what? When I realized that even though Dolly Parton could do it, I couldn't, I basically played guitar when one of my nails broke and I cut the others so my hand would be "balanced"! I was not in love with the guitar.

When I started piano, even though my teacher convinced me it was important it still took me several months, yes months, of gradually trimming and getting used to short nails before I really started keeping them short. I hate short nails, I really do (on me, I mean, I don't think about other people's nails) -- but I love piano more.


[Linked Image]
#1995938 - 12/07/12 01:13 PM Re: When students have long nails and refuse to cut them [Re: casinitaly]  
Joined: Aug 2004
Posts: 3,928
TimR Offline
3000 Post Club Member
TimR  Offline
3000 Post Club Member

Joined: Aug 2004
Posts: 3,928
Virginia, USA
Originally Posted by casinitaly
I hate short nails, I really do (on me, I mean, I don't think about other people's nails) -- but I love piano more.


Exactly. You made the change after you'd become convinced it was the correct decision, or at least the lesser of two evils.

Students aren't convinced, I think partly because most of them aren't sufficiently serious about attaining a high level of performance, and partly because their teacher hasn't earned a high enough degree of credibility that their advice is accepted without question.

That means a student has room to debate it, and maybe the answers aren't convincing. Maybe because short nails and curved fingers are so much part of the teacher's worldview that he/she has never thought about why.

I think I could go on youtube and find many examples of high level pianists with short nails. And if we looked really closely, some of them would be fine with much longer nails than they have. I just used a ruler and measured the distance from my middle finger nail to the surface of my desk in playing position. I could add 1/4 inch to that finger, and obviously more to all the other fingers (because they curve less in normal playing).

Now if you explained to me the tendon attachment anatomy and the exact degree of curvature necessary for joint stability, I'd have bought it. But even as a student I was an engineer.


gotta go practice
#1995946 - 12/07/12 01:27 PM Re: When students have long nails and refuse to cut them [Re: Nannerl Mozart]  
Joined: Aug 2004
Posts: 3,928
TimR Offline
3000 Post Club Member
TimR  Offline
3000 Post Club Member

Joined: Aug 2004
Posts: 3,928
Virginia, USA
Whoops.
I have to take it all back.
Just looked at this picture:
http://bountifulpianolessons.blogspot.com/2010/07/to-curve-or-not-to-curve-that-is.html
and realized my hand position is wrong, wrong, wrong. I've been playing with the pads not knowing I should be using only the tip of the finger. Obviously short nails are more important than I realized!


gotta go practice
#1995973 - 12/07/12 02:25 PM Re: When students have long nails and refuse to cut them [Re: Nannerl Mozart]  
Joined: May 2009
Posts: 3,336
ten left thumbs Offline
3000 Post Club Member
ten left thumbs  Offline
3000 Post Club Member

Joined: May 2009
Posts: 3,336
Scotland
You're not related to a guy called keyboard klutz, are you?

#1995984 - 12/07/12 02:48 PM Re: When students have long nails and refuse to cut them [Re: Nannerl Mozart]  
Joined: Aug 2004
Posts: 3,928
TimR Offline
3000 Post Club Member
TimR  Offline
3000 Post Club Member

Joined: Aug 2004
Posts: 3,928
Virginia, USA
Hee, hee. Hope not.

Whether you need to cut your nails probably depends a bit on whether your image of curved is dribbling a basketball or gripping a golf ball.

But that's just mechanics.

The psychology of influencing a child is a different matter. They tend to ask why, and are sometimes skeptical of the answer. Especially if there is no immediate payoff, like something being easier to play now rather than in 10 years.


gotta go practice
#1996293 - 12/08/12 08:55 AM Re: When students have long nails and refuse to cut them [Re: Nannerl Mozart]  
Joined: Jul 2008
Posts: 732
Nannerl Mozart Offline
500 Post Club Member
Nannerl Mozart  Offline
500 Post Club Member

Joined: Jul 2008
Posts: 732
Australia, Melbourne
The more I read about piano pedagogy, the more I see that it has changed and shifted significantly over the past few decades. I'm saying this... and I'm only 21 and half way through my music degree.

I've talked to my teacher about my teaching issues and I've noticed that he's the traditional type of teacher, with a more fundamentalist approach, the type that only takes on 'serious' students - he won't teach Jazz, or improvisation or more contemporary popular genres... but he will teach classical - including 20th and 21st century music, he will teach harmony, aural and he also is available to accompany and teach me how to teach. He believes that technique is the foundation, without it we pave the way to injury, we also pave the way to bad or limited musicality.

I've always regarded his way as right or perhaps the more correct approach. The more I read and the more I interact with other teachers, I can see that his way fits me but it's not necessarily the right way. Teachers who belong to the latter group (the ones who would teach popular music, improvisation and more 'fun' stuff) are the type who are probably open to less 'serious' students and who are ok with the long nails thing.

It makes me wonder where I stand on the issue. I know that all students are not like me. As a student, I was pretty serious, and still am ... but I have my reasons - I am a music major. I'm not as serious as a piano major as piano performance is not my major but I guess I took lessons as a child and the younger you are, the more superior the teacher is - the teacher is always right in that instance. I suppose with teenagers and adults you leave it to their prerogative - or if you have a big issue with it you drop them. In addition to this, I work in another industry (in the Food industry) and as junior chef there is no option, you either cut your nails or you don't work in the kitchen. It was that simple. Maybe I'm hoping that my teenage student would see it in that light. Or maybe it is that simple - I've done what I can to convince her to cut her nails. She realises that it is physically possible to play with long nails but it is not ideal and in the end, I can either tolerate it or drop her.

Page 2 of 2 1 2

Moderated by  Ken Knapp 

Piano Acc. & Gift Items in
Piano World's Online Store
In PianoSupplies.com ,(a division of Piano World)
our online store for piano and music gifts and accessories, Digital Piano Dolly, party goods, tuning equipment, piano moving equipment, benches, lamps Caster Cups and more.


Free Shipping* on Jansen Artist Piano Benches, Cocoweb Piano Lamps, Hidrau Hydraulic Piano Benches
(*free shipping within contiguous U.S. only)
(ad)
Pearl River
Pearl River Pianos
(ad)
Pianoteq
PianoTeq 6 Out now
(ad)
Lindeblad Piano
Lindeblad Piano Restorations and sales
ad
Pierce Piano Atlas


New Topics - Multiple Forums
VST/External audio interface technical issues
by genuse. 09/24/17 10:22 PM
How can I learn "Never Surrender" by Lionel Yu?
by Piano Master 757. 09/24/17 09:45 PM
removing key cover on Mason Hamlin model 50
by jbclem. 09/24/17 08:10 PM
Women composers I admire
by GillesJ. 09/24/17 08:08 PM
Hailun H-5 Piano opinion
by DesertFox. 09/24/17 07:57 PM
Forum Statistics
Forums44
Topics182,013
Posts2,659,938
Members88,886
Most Online15,252
Mar 21st, 2010
(ad)
Accu-Tuner
Sanderson Accu-Tuner
Check It Out!
There's a lot more to Piano World than just the forums.
Click Here to
Explore The Rest of Piano World!!
Visit our online store for gifts for music lovers


 
Help keep the forums up and running with a donation, any amount is appreciated!
Or by becoming a Subscribing member! Thank-you.
Donate   Subscribe
 
Our Piano Related Classified Ads
| Dealers | Tuners | Lessons | Movers | Restorations | Pianos For Sale | Sell Your Piano |

Advertise on Piano World
| Subscribe | Piano World | PianoSupplies.com | Advertise on Piano World |
| |Contact | Privacy | Legal | About Us | Site Map | Free Newsletter |


copyright 1997 - 2017 Piano World ® all rights reserved
No part of this site may be reproduced without prior written permission
Powered by UBB.threads™ PHP Forum Software 7.6.0