2022 our 25th year online!

Welcome to the Piano World Piano Forums
Over 3 million posts about pianos, digital pianos, and all types of keyboard instruments.
Over 100,000 members from around the world.
Join the World's Largest Community of Piano Lovers (it's free)
It's Fun to Play the Piano ... Please Pass It On!

SEARCH
Piano Forums & Piano World
(ad)
Who's Online Now
77 members (20/20 Vision, amc252, benkeys, apianostudent, Bellyman, AlkansBookcase, accordeur, akse0435, 15 invisible), 1,965 guests, and 312 robots.
Key: Admin, Global Mod, Mod
Previous Thread
Next Thread
Print Thread
Hop To
Page 2 of 2 1 2
Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 32,060
B
BDB Offline
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member
Offline
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member
B
Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 32,060
Originally Posted by Ed Foote
Greetings,
In a performance setting, .010" is a huge tolerance for aftertouch. In a church choir room, not so much.

I set dip by setting the aftertouch, which is where most pianists gauge evenness of action. I consider aftertouch as that key travel which occurs after the jack is no longer supporting the weight of the hammer, and before the key's motion is stopped by the front punching.
After the blow and let-off are done, I set aftertouch by altering a previously set static dip, usually .390" on an older Steinway. If I have to deviate from that depth, in order to get an even aftertouch, .007" is as far as I allow the dip to vary before I start moving the hammer height. To determine the bottom limit of the key travel, I use my sense of touch to depress the key on the selected thickness of punching, ( I usually favor .035" with moderately firm pressure). Using a thicker punching to measure with firmer pressure will give a more consistent result that a thinner punching with light pressure. Whatever combo works for a given tech's sense of touch is the best way to do this. The object is consistency first and foremost.

If I am using the Crescendo punchings, I will often be using the .002" to achieve discernable differences in aftertouch. I can't tell a .002" difference in key dip, but in a regulating zone, that difference can be felt in aftertouch. And if I, as a tech can feel it, I assume my customers can, also.
Regards,


Sorry, but I do not believe that. In order to maintain such tight tolerances, you would need incredible control over not just the keybed punchings, but the knuckle and letoff button as well. The adjustment would have to be checked constantly, which would wipe out the budget of most small concert venues.

What is more, I have never heard of a single concert artist stopping in the middle of a run because there is a variation in the aftertouch of more than 0.007". Anyone who does this is not likely to have a career.

Keep in mind that this topic is for a amateur in a foreign country with little access to good piano care. Being pedantic does not help.

Last edited by BDB; 12/03/12 06:10 PM.

Semipro Tech
Joined: Feb 2011
Posts: 4,331
W
4000 Post Club Member
Offline
4000 Post Club Member
W
Joined: Feb 2011
Posts: 4,331
Originally Posted by BDB
Keep in mind that this topic is for a amateur in a foreign country ...

To interpose my experience as an amateur in a foreign country, I found that 0.010" (0.25 mm) reduction in aftertouch made a huge difference to the touch of my piano. A further 0.010" reduction made another huge difference. 0.005" would have be discernible to me if not 0.002".


Ian Russell
Schiedmayer & Soehne, 1925 Model 14, 140cm
Ibach, 1905 F-IV, 235cm
Joined: May 2003
Posts: 2,845
E
2000 Post Club Member
Offline
2000 Post Club Member
E
Joined: May 2003
Posts: 2,845
I wrote:
In a performance setting, .010" is a huge tolerance for aftertouch. In a church choir room, not so much.
If I am using the Crescendo punchings, I will often be using the .002" to achieve discernable differences in aftertouch. I can't tell a .002" difference in key dip, but in a regulating zone, that difference can be felt in aftertouch. And if I, as a tech can feel it, I assume my customers can, also.

BDB responds:
>>Sorry, but I do not believe that. In order to maintain such tight tolerances, you would need incredible control over not just the keybed punchings, but the knuckle and letoff button as well. The adjustment would have to be checked constantly, which would wipe out the budget of most small concert venues. <,

Believe what you like, my experience is that there are artists out there that can tell. , I strive for that kind of control over the action, and yes, I have many customers that easily discern a .010" difference in aftertouch. Ronnie Milsap could feel a little over .004" difference. The adjustment is not checked constantly, it begins with tolerances that close, and gradually loosens up, like one regulation a year on our stages. At the end of semester worst, there might be a tolerance of .010", but not to start.

>>>What is more, I have never heard of a single concert artist stopping in the middle of a run because there is a variation in the aftertouch of more than 0.007". Anyone who does this is not likely to have a career.

Pardon me, but there is straw leaking out. No artist is going to stop in the middle of a run, but they will adjust to whatever irregularities there are in an action, and the less irregular the individual component settings are, the less irregular the final result will be. The more regular the action, the less effort is expended on the instrument and more attention on the music. Aftertouch is a huge part of the equation , perhaps the most sensitive dimension in the action, and I still maintain that a .010" tolerance, while perhaps suitable for a choir practice piano, is a crude margin for the performance venue, which is where I live.
Regards,

Joined: Mar 2008
Posts: 9,230
O
9000 Post Club Member
Offline
9000 Post Club Member
O
Joined: Mar 2008
Posts: 9,230
When we are regulating with the smallest papers it is surprizing how the aftertouch difference is more sensitive than key dip difference.

The thin papers are 0.06 mm (silk paper) but those are for the balance, mostly even if I have seen as thin papers used. What counts in my opinion is to use papers that are not taking moisture too easily. I use the Yamaha ones in lack of better source. (not cheap)

I also use 22 mm diameter papers I still see pianos with the good large punchings installed on papers 20 mm in diameter, as originally the punchings where 20 mm.
The "creshendo" punchings are adding power but à little noise too. They are precise, but may be a little hard to the pianist articulation.
Not for all pianos, if the the keybed is not too sonorous it is better..
Regards

Last edited by Kamin; 12/05/12 04:43 AM.

Professional of the profession.
Foo Foo specialist
I wish to add some kind and sensitive phrase but nothing comes to mind.!
Joined: Jan 2009
Posts: 3,489
B
3000 Post Club Member
Offline
3000 Post Club Member
B
Joined: Jan 2009
Posts: 3,489
Originally Posted by Kamin

The "creshendo" punchings are adding power but à little noise too. They are precise, but may be a little hard to the pianist articulation.


The Crescendo punchings are great for stable regulation, however I agree that their extra firmness is noticeable to the pianist when playing (at least to me). It's not necessarily bad, but it took a little getting used to.

Page 2 of 2 1 2

Moderated by  Piano World, platuser 

Link Copied to Clipboard
What's Hot!!
Piano World Has Been Sold!
--------------------
Forums RULES, Terms of Service & HELP
(updated 06/06/2022)
---------------------
Posting Pictures on the Forums
(ad)
(ad)
New Topics - Multiple Forums
New DP for a 10 year old
by peelaaa - 04/16/24 02:47 PM
Estonia 1990
by Iberia - 04/16/24 11:01 AM
Very Cheap Piano?
by Tweedpipe - 04/16/24 10:13 AM
Practical Meaning of SMP
by rneedle - 04/16/24 09:57 AM
Country style lessons
by Stephen_James - 04/16/24 06:04 AM
Forum Statistics
Forums43
Topics223,391
Posts3,349,273
Members111,634
Most Online15,252
Mar 21st, 2010

Our Piano Related Classified Ads
| Dealers | Tuners | Lessons | Movers | Restorations |

Advertise on Piano World
| Piano World | PianoSupplies.com | Advertise on Piano World |
| |Contact | Privacy | Legal | About Us | Site Map


Copyright © VerticalScope Inc. All Rights Reserved.
No part of this site may be reproduced without prior written permission
Powered by UBB.threads™ PHP Forum Software 7.7.5
When you purchase through links on our site, we may earn an affiliate commission, which supports our community.