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I know that Rune will come in and reply, but the score is my end product, from his midi file. And he did confirm that he doesn't read music either because he couldn't check the score! Which is why I'm quite weary there may be errors in there, or foolishly done notational tricks... hem...

But if it's about music then heck YES! Here's to all who think improvisation is not composition, etc... It's a very fine work (albeit, as Steve said... you can't put to sleep a child in a couple of minutes, but still... hehe).

Hi Nikolas,

It might well be my defective ear, but in the recording of Rune's LULLABY, I hear a minor second dissonance at the beginning of Measures 5 and 13 - probably an E in the treble. I do not see any trace of that in the computer-generated score.

Ed

As you know, I happen to be one of those who believes that composition is a very specific art and craft; and improvisation is quite an other, distinct, art and craft.

I would be willing to bet, and hope that Rune will chime in here with clarification, that this piece is played ESSENTIALLY the exact same way each time, in spite of not having it written down.

Rune?

I think that Rune will have a lot to say when he comes to this thread!

Are you implying that Rune played this once, completely spontaneously, fully formed, while recording it; and that the score you have rendered through transcription is the result of extemporaneous improvisation?

(If true, this could be the exception that proves my rule!)
Ed

Oh no... Now I see that my post implied many things. What I meant that since rune isn't around we're all assuming great many things.

I think that he might have played it a few times and then record it. But no idea really. Rune will let us know, but the very fact that he doesn't read score, does mean that his compositions are more based in what he plays and thinks while playing, rather than pre planing, etc.

Again no idea and I hope that Rune will come to clarify things.

Regardless to say that I really like his lullaby! Very much so!

EDIT: Ed it may very well be that I missed a note or two. I did delete a couple of notes that seemed to be too silent and thus assumed they were 'wrong' somehow, but it can easily be corrected! Thanks for checking it out!

And here we have the first festive work... Based (obviously) on the well known tune of 'Silent night' with a few twists!

CLICK HERE TO DOWNLOAD THE MP3 OF SILENT NIGHT BY SEAN MONTGOMERY

This was sent to me a few moments ago, by a new member (whose nickname here in PianoWorld I don't know), but his name in the email is Sean Montgomery. I'm hoping that he'll come over to post his thoughts and become a regular member, since he's new!

Hi Ed,

Many thanks for your positive comments on my lullaby.

Nikolas kindly offered me to produce a computer generated score of the piece:

quote=Nikolas]Rune: Sure thing. Send it over. I'll check how it's made. If you used a clicked track (so if you pretty much followed the tempo) then it'll be dead easy to create the score. If you just recorded it the 'fast way' without any tempo, then things might be trickier, and I can't promise anything but I will give it a try.
[/quote]

As I did not use a click track on the original recording, I suspected that the score could be difficult to process.
For that reason I made a new recording as a midi file for Nikolas and followed a click track at 74 bps. Not very easy and I´m sure I played the piece different in areas.

Under normal circumstances I believe I play my compositions essentially the same way each time. Hope this clear things up. Sorry for the confusion.

And no, I am not able to read music from scores. I am self-taught, with the exception of a few very basic piano lessons at school when I was a kid

Rune

Hi Rune,

Thank you for the clarification. I hope I did not detract in any way from your wonderful work by lapsing into a philosophical discussion of composition versus improvisation.

In my opinion, your Lullaby is a very nice COMPOSITION, in every aspect of the word. The fact that you have not formally studied harmony and voice-leading makes it all-the-more outstanding.

Ed

I'll also apologize for taking it a bit further, but I have to say this...

An improvisation is something that's an one way, or similar. That's the point of it right? But if you record that (with midi, as it happened in Runes case), does it remain an impro, or becomes a composition?

For me in any way you create a new musical work, it's all composition = creativity unleashed! That's why I don't differentiate between the two, although I see the point in doing so... :-/

Note: I just wish I had mod powers in order to gather all the works in the first post of the thread... I'll talk to the admins/mods responsible for this....

Hey Nikolas,

I lifted the following from a recent thread in which you and I were participating.

Obviously, there will be “grey” areas between what is clearly a “composition”, and what is obviously an improvisation. But I believe those in-between cases to be few, and their characteristics are certainly not changed by the simple act of recording. .

I know you understand my point of view on the subject(s), but for those who may not -
I think of composition as a process; and I contrast that with improvisation, which is an event. In many instances, both are musical miracles, but they ARE different.

My reason for asking Rune about working on his Lullaby, and if he played it essentially the same each time, was this. A composition is something that is learned, essentially note-for-note, and then repeated. The art and skill of improvisING can be learned, but an improvisation is always “off-the-cuff”. The venerable jazz pianist Teddy Wilson could improvise, AND, more recently, he prepared tunes for performance that sounded like they were improvised, but were played essentially the same way each time. I believe the latter process is composition.

I also believe that Rune’s Lullaby is a composition. It fits all the criteria, and now that Nikolas has been good enough to capture it on paper, it can easily be transfered to other musicians for their performance.

I used to compose - quite a bit. I still improvise on jazz standards. I love them both, and they are two, completely different skills, and they produce two completely different forms of the art.
(Well, I would not use "art" in my case, but you get the idea.)

Ed

Ed,

I fully agree with you. I should, just in case, note that I do not find either 'better' or 'worst'. I'm in love with many guitar solos (in pop/rock idioms) that I wouldn't consider them anything less that masterfully composed... compositions!

Still, now with the aid of technology we have something of a problem with our definitions (which are pretty much the same): You can capture note by note, rhythm by rhythm, dynamic by dynamic, phrase by phrase even the most complex of improvisations. Exactly like taking a photograph. And this photograph can remain in time and forever (as long as humanity exists and as long as there's interest in it).

It's the same with any improvisation: Even if the process is momentarily in real time, an event as you say (and as it should be!) the capturing of that event, makes it... something else. Something completely different!

What a lovely idea! I've listened to everyone's work and enjoyed them all! What a great inspiration for a beginner!

Thanks for all the contributions, both the music and discussion. I have listened to each piece several times.

Pieces submitted in order of posting :

Nikolas: Very short and sweet , a sense of intrigue and mystery....
I hope we shall be hearing more of your compositions in the months to come.

Rune: Rune , this is a lovely piece with a gentle and gracious spirit. Thanks for submitting your composition. You asked about my recording.... yes, as Nikolas mentioned it was played on an acoustic grand at home, and using a Zoom H4N recorder. Thanks for your comments.

Steve: Wonderful rich textures, mood and chord development. I like the sense of depth and reaching forth. I don't find it particularly dark or sad. I look forward to hearing it played on acoustic piano. Thanks for your submission.

Dara: not to bad for your first submission
someone mentioned wandering. yes i like to wander and also wonder.

Allazart: Thanks allazart for your contribution and piece. This is a lively piece and sounds like you had fun making it. Hope to hear more from you.

Ted: Very much enjoyed listening to your pieces, Barclay's Blues and A Romantic Duality. They both seem to suggest another time in the past, and have a sense to me of being cinematic.

Sean: Lovely rendition of 'Silent Night'. Thanks and hope to hear more from you. Seasons greetings !

And here's an extra tune, from Larry G. Alexander.

It's called "Arresti E Vada" (not sure if I separated the words correct. Larry?)

CLICK HERE TO LISTEN TO Arresti E Vada

If I may comment is that I think this is a very clever work, rather difficult to perform live, and the mechanical recording (from Finale?) certainly doesn't do it justice. But it's the first time I've heard something so dissonant from you Larry and I'm enjoying every minute of it.

Dara: Thanks for your words about my work. I have a few ideas for the coming months... So I won't run out! And thanks for offering your insights for all those works so far. It's been very smooth so far I think!

Not wishing to take anything away from Sean's excellent effort, to me this is an "arrangement".

We can probably get into a rather lengthy discussion about what distinguishes an arrangement from a composition if it is not already obvious.

Very nice piece, Sean!

Would agree with your observation, LoPresti -- perhaps the thread title should be extended to "depository of compositions and arrangements from Piano World", because I consider both areas to be of interest to Piano World listeners. I personally consider arranging to be a heckuva lot easier than composition (although neither one is easy), and have many more of the former than the latter in my "portfolio".

I do know that Nikolas wished he had made a more encompassing title, to include Compositions and Improvisations, and now perhaps Arrangements. In my mind, these three species are different enough to warrent each their own thread.

On the other hand, I start thinking about the settings, or the performance of many of these different creations. It is very (VERY!) common for the typical jazz trio to be playing a "song" composed by Cole Porter (for instance), that is arranged by a member of the trio, and that is improvised upon, in turn, by all three players. Such performances (settings) are so common, it is difficult to think of them in terms of categories we are discussing here.

Ed

No reason for apologies. The topic you are discussing is interesting

Nikolas: Sorry for not responding to your contribution earlier. I have actually listened to several of your compositions both at your web site and on YouTube. I find your music very interesting and enjoyable.

I regularly slip into standard chord progressions in my attempts to compose, despite the struggle to extend my musical language. I think your Sketches for Solo Piano plays an important role and I am convinced they are appreciated by many composers

Dara: Many thanks for your nice comment on my lullaby!

Rune (also struggling with Google translate :-o)

Rune: Thanks for listening my work(s). I do hope that I'm contributing something 'new' most of the times I compose...

To everyone, just a word of caution: I've requested to Frank that I get some editing powers (YAY) so I will be able to edit the initial post with all links and stuff, within the weekend! However I'm quite uncertain if I'll have enough time to handle more than 1 thread per month and I do think that the general idea of 'composing' is creativity, which is evident in every single work presented here... So, personally, I'm find with a single thread encompassing all that don't belong in their own thread.

BTW, I should note that wr in another forum of PW, did ask which works go in here and which should have their own thread and I'm not sure I have a clear answer, but I think that smaller works go here and larger works warrant their own thread... :-/ Comments?