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In search of my first piano #1991769 11/28/12 12:53 AM
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stng Offline OP
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Hi everyone. I've lurked here for a long time, absorbing all the wonderful information, but now I've decided to take the plunge and ask for some advice--I think this may be the friendliest forum I've every come across. I've been learning piano for about 3 years, and I've reached grade 3 (slow, I know, but my teacher gets me to learn 20-30 pieces at each grade, from preliminary upwards, so I'm pretty pleased with my progress). Anyway, I've been learning on a Yamaha P85 digital. Great, but my teacher and I agree that it's about time I invested in an acoustic.

So, I've set off on my piano buying journey. I've gone to and fro over used versus new, and I've come to the conclusion that I want something that is mine, so I've bitten the bullet and decided on new. I've been trialling pianos and I've come up with a short list. I know which ones I prefer the sound and feel of (although they are all fine instruments, just different), but I'm not so sure about quality of build and longevity.

My list:
  • Sauter Concent 120
  • Vogel 120
  • Kawai K5
  • W. Hoffmann 120
  • Petrof P125

I like all of these for various reasons, although the Sauter was a delight to play and to listen to. But where is my value for money balance and which of these is going to last me for the long haul. I want this to be a piano that sees me through.

Any advice or even simply experiences with these pianos would be really helpful.

Thanks very much for any help smile



stng
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Re: In search of my first piano [Re: stng] #1991856 11/28/12 08:15 AM
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I think all of these pianos will hold up just fine for you in a home setting. If you enjoy the Sauter most, you have made a fine choice. They are beautiful instruments.

I say go with what you love.


Rich Galassini
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Re: In search of my first piano [Re: stng] #1991883 11/28/12 09:43 AM
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Sauter +1

IMO, the next group are highly competitive with individual strengths. We previously sold more of the Vogel V115 with very good track record for our customers, so the V121 would be my second choice. I have very little experience with the Hoffman.


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Re: In search of my first piano [Re: PianoWorksATL] #1991987 11/28/12 02:49 PM
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Thanks, guys, for the advice. I really like the Sauter tone and touch. Although only 120cm high, it sounded bigger than a Kawai K6 I played in the same store and it had a more complex tone (maybe it was richer in harmonics). I don't know whether the Concent has triplex strings--the technical information on Sauter pianos is very limited on the web--but if it did that would explain it.

The Petrof P125 also had a very nice tone and a heavier touch (in line with the Kawai) than the Sauter. I also played a Sauter Masterclass 130, which was beautiful, but out of my price range. Unfortunately, the pianos are all in different shops, so I have to travel between them to play each and it makes comparisons all the harder.

I am planning on putting the piano into a spare bedroom 4x4m (13x13ft). I'm guessing that something that plays softly and isn't so bright would be better.


stng
Re: In search of my first piano [Re: stng] #1992432 11/29/12 01:49 PM
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Originally Posted by stng
I really like the Sauter tone and touch. Although only 120cm high, it sounded bigger than a Kawai K6 I played in the same store and it had a more complex tone (maybe it was richer in harmonics)....

I am planning on putting the piano into a spare bedroom 4x4m (13x13ft). I'm guessing that something that plays softly and isn't so bright would be better.



Hi, stng:

If you like the Sauter, I don't think you would go wrong with the choice. I admit my bias towards Sauter because I have the Masterclass 122 and enjoy its sound and capabilities.

Sauter does play bigger than others of a comparable size. There is plenty of power in my Masterclass 122 whenever I need it. Since you are looking for something that plays softly, the Sauter should fit the bill in that area. You can play a wide dynamic range with a Sauter and you can easily play very softly on them.

It looks like the 120 model should have the R2 action which allows you to play fast repetitions of notes so you should find that you would be able to play advance repertoire on it.

A R



Sauter 122 Masterclass (M-Line)
Re: In search of my first piano [Re: A Rebours] #1992705 11/30/12 06:50 AM
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Thanks AR. As far as I can tell, the particular Sauter I'm looking at doesn't have the RR action (happy to be told by anyone in the know that I'm wrong). It lacks that little RR on the fall board. I was mildly disappointed, because I'd heard really good things about this faster action, but the Concent still plays very nicely. I'd love to move to a better Sauter, but they cost an arm and a leg. I guess my other option is to save...


stng
Re: In search of my first piano [Re: stng] #1992826 11/30/12 01:38 PM
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Originally Posted by stng
As far as I can tell, the particular Sauter I'm looking at doesn't have the RR action (happy to be told by anyone in the know that I'm wrong). It lacks that little RR on the fall board. I was mildly disappointed, because I'd heard really good things about this faster action, but the Concent still plays very nicely. I'd love to move to a better Sauter, but they cost an arm and a leg. I guess my other option is to save...


A well-regulated piano whether one has the RR action or not will maintain the piano's response that you like now. Having a routine schedule of piano maintenance performed by a skilled technician in tuning, regulation, and voicing will keep the virtues of what you like in this piano in tip-top shape.

What can you tell us about the Concent model? I don't see it listed on Sauter's website. I did Google the model and saw some piano stores in France and Netherlands that have the model.

I am always curious to learn about the various Sauter models and how they sound and play, in general. I say "in general" since sound and touch are subjective.

A R



Sauter 122 Masterclass (M-Line)
Re: In search of my first piano [Re: A Rebours] #1992890 11/30/12 03:39 PM
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It is part of their Peter Maly design series, but I think it might be the only one without the RR action. It is a very nicely constructed piano, with modern lines that appeal to me but probably not to everyone. I've included a link.

Sauter Concent

It is remarkably loud for its size and has a wonderful tone that is crisp and clear, but warm.


stng
Re: In search of my first piano [Re: stng] #1993037 12/01/12 12:42 AM
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Wow! the piano is absolutely beautiful! I own a K5 and LOVE it. I hadn't had a chance to try Sauter during my search, but now I'm jealous after seeing how beautiful Sauter is smile Where are you located? and do you know where the piano is made?

I tried Vogel, Petrof and Hoffmann on your list. Petrof and Hoffmann are hard to come by in the chicago market now and I only found them in one piano store. I wasn't sure if the piano wasn't prepped well or not, I wasn't impressed by them and was quite disappointed at the sound. I was expecting to have a powerful and projecting tones but I didn't feel like that at all. I liked Vogel. it's nice but I wasn't like "oh my god!". so I ruled it out quickly as I couldn't justify paying a few thousands $ more. I fell in love with the K5 I tried and feel free to ask me any questions about that model.

I still can't believe of the Sauter's design! it's just so contemporary looking...


Re: In search of my first piano [Re: stng] #1993038 12/01/12 12:58 AM
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OK.. i have checked PB.. looks like Sauter is significantly more $$$ than Kawai k5. I think if you're having the budget of Vogel and Sauter, you should consider Kawai K8.

Re: In search of my first piano [Re: stng] #1993040 12/01/12 01:16 AM
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RileyBunny, the Sauter is a very nice instrument. To be honest, I can get it for about the same price as a K6. It's on sale, even though it's only a couple of months old. I'm in Australia, and Sauters are much cheaper here than in the US. I have no idea why.

I've narrowed down my search now...the Sauter Concent or Carus with the RR action or a Schimmel C120 (the dealer for the Vogel has been very generous with the Schimmel price). Does anyone have any thoughts on which of these is a better choice?

My only reservation is that the Sauters are in a shop with poor air conditioning and all the Sauters I have tried there have had a couple of tuning issues, especially in the bass. If I get the Sauter, it will be ordered from Sauter and will arrive without going onto the floor. I'd probably use my own technician. Has anyone had problems with Sauters having uneven tone or not holding their tune? Should I worry about this?

Simon


stng
Re: In search of my first piano [Re: stng] #1993350 12/01/12 06:45 PM
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Originally Posted by stng
It is part of their Peter Maly design series, but I think it might be the only one without the RR action. It is a very nicely constructed piano, with modern lines that appeal to me but probably not to everyone. I've included a link.

Sauter Concent

It is remarkably loud for its size and has a wonderful tone that is crisp and clear, but warm.


Ah...I now see. Peter Maly design. I wasn't looking in the right place.

My Sauter is the same - big sound for the size and the tone is as you describe. Lots to work with in terms of a wide dynamic range as well as tonal color possibilities. Sauter does have its own unique sound, don't you think?

A R


Sauter 122 Masterclass (M-Line)
Re: In search of my first piano [Re: RX2Bunny] #1993354 12/01/12 06:48 PM
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Originally Posted by RileyBunny
and do you know where the piano is made?



Riley Bunny,

Sauter pianos are made in Germany.

A R


Sauter 122 Masterclass (M-Line)
Re: In search of my first piano [Re: stng] #1993359 12/01/12 07:01 PM
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Originally Posted by stng


Has anyone had problems with Sauters having uneven tone or not holding their tune? Should I worry about this?

Simon


Hi, Simon,

Not at all. My Masterclass has even tone and holds its tuning extremely well. When I have it tuned it is barely out of the tune. The piano is in a stable environment with no huge humidity swings so this definitely is a factor for tuning stability.

When you get your piano from the factory I am sure they will have voiced your piano to make sure it has an even tone. Once you get the piano into your home and it settles in a good technician who is skilled at voicing can finely voice the piano to your liking.

Since you would be ordering your piano directly from the factory you can discuss any concerns you might have with them. Just contact them via email and they'll answer your questions.

A R


Sauter 122 Masterclass (M-Line)
Re: In search of my first piano [Re: A Rebours] #1993375 12/01/12 07:46 PM
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Thanks AR. When I said from the factory, I actually meant that the dealer was going to arrange a piano in the next shipment. But I am going to take your advice and contact Sauter with a question about one of their other models.

I'll post pictures when I finally have it in my home.


stng

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