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No matter how much you may love your piano, it lives in your home, you don't live in it... protect your home and you protect your piano... the entire piano.
Or, then again: http://www.mymodernmet.com/profiles/blogs/the-piano-houseThe architect specified that D-C should provide the HVAC. ![[Linked Image]](http://www.runemasterstudios.com/graemlins/images/smilielol.gif)
Marty in Minnesota
It's much easier to bash a Steinway than it is to play one.
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What data do you have to substantiate your statement? Please elaborate a bit.
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What data do you have to substantiate your statement? Please elaborate a bit. About your manners or about your mania? "We hold these truths to be self-evident."
Marty in Minnesota
It's much easier to bash a Steinway than it is to play one.
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One begins to wonder about someone who is so adamantly opposed to a simple device which has proven itself to be successful in countless applications.
This tirade is most unbecoming and even borderline manic. It is no nothings like you Marty, who help to foster myths, and misinformation. You don't appear to be an "expert" on anything except being contrary at every opportunity. It is you, my friend, who appear to have the manic disorder. I am, and always will be, a consumer advocate. Whether it be for commercial consumers or private consumers, misleading marketing methods should be brought to light. It is often the things left out that are the most misleading. Please present to forum readers any independent data you have to backup your comments. Manufacturer websites and endorsements by those who have a "horse in the race" is skewed data and cannot be considered. As any employer will quickly tell you, they see nothing but great stuff on a resume.
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No matter how much you may love your piano, it lives in your home, you don't live in it... protect your home and you protect your piano... the entire piano.
Or, then again: http://www.mymodernmet.com/profiles/blogs/the-piano-houseThe architect specified that D-C should provide the HVAC. A DC should provide the HVAC??? From what orifice did you pull that idea out of? Marty, you are living in another dimension where delusion is fact. Perhaps the string theory has some merit. Your comments bring to mind an old saying... "better to remain silent and be thought a fool than to speak and remove all doubt".
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It is no nothings like you Marty, who help to foster myths, and misinformation.
I don't understand your use of a double negative. Please explain.
Marty in Minnesota
It's much easier to bash a Steinway than it is to play one.
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No matter how much you may love your piano, it lives in your home, you don't live in it... protect your home and you protect your piano... the entire piano.
Or, then again: http://www.mymodernmet.com/profiles/blogs/the-piano-houseThe architect specified that D-C should provide the HVAC. A DC should provide the HVAC??? From what orifice did you pull that idea out of? Marty, you are living in another dimension where delusion is fact. Perhaps the string theory has some merit. Your comments bring to mind an old saying... "better to remain silent and be thought a fool than to speak and remove all doubt". Let me guess, you didn't look at the link, right? Go look at it then apologize to Marty...
Last edited by Ken Knapp; 11/27/12 05:05 PM.
Ken
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I have installed hundreds and hundreds and hundreds of Damp Chaser systems over the years. Perhaps thousands, I have never counted them. If properly installed and properly maintained by the owner, they work extremely well.
At my college we have Dampp Chaser systems installed on all of our Steinways and many other pianos. In fact on our Steinway D,s, we have two Dampp Chaser systems installed on each Piano! They work exceptionally well! A piano with one of these properly installed, and the key is properly installed, AND maintained, will be a piano that holds its tune and pitch better than one without.
Jerry Groot RPT Piano Technicians Guild Grand Rapids, Michigan www.grootpiano.comWe love to play BF2.
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I have been following this thread from the beginning. I was a little worried because of the anti-damp chaser posts since I have one in the piano I purchased recently. I have not had a technician come in yet for the first tuning/voicing and I am waiting to fill the water because I know the pads need changing, etc. I am feeling better about having it and look forward to getting my system up and running. Thanks for the information from all the posters.
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Chopinlover49, Caring for a D-C is very easy and when your tech does the service, ask him to show you how it is done. The only thing to learn is the fitting of new pads for the humidifyer and the cleaning of the element. My suggestion is to only use distilled water and the water treatment fluid from D-C. To find the best prices on the supplies, try a google. I happen to use http://howardpianoindustries.com/
Marty in Minnesota
It's much easier to bash a Steinway than it is to play one.
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I have been following this thread from the beginning. I was a little worried because of the anti-damp chaser posts since I have one in the piano I purchased recently. I have not had a technician come in yet for the first tuning/voicing and I am waiting to fill the water because I know the pads need changing, etc. I am feeling better about having it and look forward to getting my system up and running. Thanks for the information from all the posters. If you're DC is empty and if the humidifier unit is not a smart heater bar then you're better off unplugging it until the tech comes. Otherwise the humidifier will be running empty throwing up heat, instead of humidity. You can easily learn how to replace the pads yourself. Nothing to it...
Jerry Groot RPT Piano Technicians Guild Grand Rapids, Michigan www.grootpiano.comWe love to play BF2.
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I purchased a Kawaii Grand RX2 3 years ago. I live on Vancouver Island in Canada, and am in a 10-storey apartment condo building two blocks from the Strait of Georgia. My piano gets sticky keys about every 3-4 months. My piano tuner has suggested I think about having a Dampp Chaser installed. I know nothing about these, except what I've read on the website selling them. Has anyone got experience with them? Are they worth while? Or should I try buying a humidifier and dehumidifier? As usual in this forum, the participants have gone WAY off topic and failed to answer the original posters fundamental question. Her piano gets STICKY KEYS every 3-4 months, NOT an unstable soundboard or tuning issues. I would be very suspicious of a "piano tuner" who recommends a DC system to address this issue on a grand. However, a "whole house" or "room specific" system would definitely address the issue if the source of the problem was an excess of humidity in the environment and the subsequent swelling of organic materials in the instrument.
Last edited by CC2 and Chopin lover; 11/29/12 08:59 AM.
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Usually sticking keys on a Kawai are in the key bushings although, it could be elsewhere too. They should be addressed and fixed with, or without a DC system. But, living in Michigan, I can't say what the norm is up there in Canada which is why I haven't addressed it.... Jurgen Goering could answer that one... 
Jerry Groot RPT Piano Technicians Guild Grand Rapids, Michigan www.grootpiano.comWe love to play BF2.
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I think the larger point is that of all the typical culprits that one would look at as the source of "sticky keys", all reside within the action cavity, therefore, NONE would be adequately addressed by a DC system in a grand, since the DC unit resides under the soundboard and does not change the humidity conditions inside the action cavity to any appreciable degree.
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I used to get sticky keys not from the bushings but from the piece of wood that sits in front of the keys that would swell. A little piece of cardboard put in there helped keep it from pressing up against the keys when played.
I'm not suggesting this is the problem, but there could be several possible reasons for sticky keys. I had a dammp-chaser on that piano and it didn't help that particular issue (nor was it installed to resolve that problem). If the OP's piano tech recommends it, however, I do think it's a worthwhile investment, and hopefully they did look at other possible causes for the sticky keys.
private piano/voice teacher FT ![[Linked Image]](https://www.pianoworld.com/forum/gallery/42/thumbs/2529.jpg) ![[Linked Image]](https://forum.pianoworld.com//gallery/42/medium/9342.png)
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As usual in this forum, the participants have gone WAY off topic and failed to answer the original posters fundamental question. Her piano gets STICKY KEYS every 3-4 months, NOT.... Actually CC2, this has all been responded to and was considered by the OP in replies. This was my initial advice. Please take the time to read what was written at the early part of the thread. Hi lori822,
Though I am a supporter of the use of the D-C systems to increase stability in pianos, having them installed on all three of my pianos, there is another consideration in your situation. Your Kawai RX has a composite action. The Kawai piano actions are known for being unaffected by humidity changes. "Sticky keys" generally are not a problem due to changes in RH with Kawai pianos. Is your piano tuner also a piano technician? It may be time for a full action regulation for your piano.
That being said, a D-C system would be most beneficial in maintaining tuning stability across the seasons. You mentioned living in a condo and it would be important to consider the type of HVAC system you have in your environment. That would be the starting point in determining the need for a full or partial D-C system.
I hope that there is some response from piano technicians in your area to offer additional insight. You might also pose the question in the 'tuner/technician' forum.
Marty in Minnesota
It's much easier to bash a Steinway than it is to play one.
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I did read it Marty, and your advice was misleading and essentially incorrect. The vast majority of "sticky key" issues stem from bushing expansion within the keys, NOT in the wippens and hammer shanks/flanges, and, since Kawai pianos with Millenium actions still use traditional keys and bushings, they are NOT immune to such problems, and ARE affected by changes in humidity from this perspective. That being the case, my suggestion to you would be to know what you are talking about before giving other members of this forum "advice".
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""Sticky keys" generally are not a problem due to changes in RH with Kawai pianos. Is your piano tuner also a piano technician? It may be time for a full action regulation for your piano."
CC2 - Before you become accusatory, you might consider what I wrote as quoted above. We are in agreement but you seem to prefer to argue.
Marty in Minnesota
It's much easier to bash a Steinway than it is to play one.
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I have installed hundreds and hundreds and hundreds of Damp Chaser systems over the years. Perhaps thousands, I have never counted them. If properly installed and properly maintained by the owner, they work extremely well.
At my college we have Dampp Chaser systems installed on all of our Steinways and many other pianos. In fact on our Steinway D,s, we have two Dampp Chaser systems installed on each Piano! They work exceptionally well! A piano with one of these properly installed, and the key is properly installed, AND maintained, will be a piano that holds its tune and pitch better than one without. I too have installed hundreds of DC systems over the past 40 years and have had only positive results.
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Family Owned and Operated Since 1937.
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I purchased a Kawaii Grand RX2 3 years ago. I live on Vancouver Island in Canada, and am in a 10-storey apartment condo building two blocks from the Strait of Georgia. My piano gets sticky keys about every 3-4 months. My piano tuner has suggested I think about having a Dampp Chaser installed. I know nothing about these, except what I've read on the website selling them. Has anyone got experience with them? Are they worth while? Or should I try buying a humidifier and dehumidifier? I rather have been apprehensive about having a unit installed under my Grand. Will the humidity be too concentrated in one area of the underside of the piano? Will the screws in the piano alter the tone or sound? Please, some advice or some shared experience?? Your input is appreciated. I think I can see that condo building from my porch...  In this kind of situation, I would investigate whether or not a humidity issue is indeed causing the problem, before recommending any multi-hundred dollar prescription. It could be something else entirely (and probably is). In our area, DC units are rarely needed, thanks to dry summers and mild winters. A thorough look at the problem to come up with a definitive diagnosis should always be the first step. Actually, this should be the second step. The first step would be to get someone in who will diagnose before prescribing.
JG
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