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Does the Roland RP 301 equal the quality sound of the Roland V-Piano?

Appears roughly the price difference is:

RP 301 about 1600
V-Piano about 6000

Quite a difference.

Makes me wonder about how durable the 301 would be. Or, how long you could play it without problems.

Bech

I don't think the difference in price has anything to do with durability, it's the electronics inside them - the V-Piano's sound is totally modeled and generated from scratch from when you press the key down, which gives it the playability that sampled or even SN DPs can't match.

But saying that, the V-Piano is a bit of a heavy beast considering it has only 88 keys and no cabinet and no speakers.....

The V-Piano is a flagship studio slab with unique sound modeling controls and top-of-line action, etc. The RP-301 is a fantastic, affordable console with entirely different features. The main piano sound is a derivative from the V-Piano technology. The sound in the RP-301 is like having one of the favorite pre-sets from the V-Piano, not the whole thing. The action is good, but also different.

They are vastly different products. Roland has an excellent reputation for durability...and the RP-301 has a 5 year, in-home warranty which is unique in the industry at that price.

What is "playability"?

Nonsense. They sound nothing like one another. The 301 has the usual Supernatural sample-based sound (with modelled elements) and the V-Piano is exactly as bennevis described it (except he missed the fact it sounds completely wrong!). But there is no similarity between the tonal characteristics of them at all.

EssBrace ----

Can you explain what you mean by saying the V "sounds completely wrong"? Just curious as the V is something I'm a little interested in.

Me too. I thought it sounded pretty good. I'm not a fan of DP sounds -- I prefer piano libraries -- but the V Piano sounds better to me than any other digital.

I'm almost reluctant to elaborate because there are certain V-Piano owners who will pounce. I have ranted about it many many times (as have others). I owned a V-Piano and got rid of it. Roland promised "a virtual showroom of concert grands" meaning that there are so many adjustments to the sound that you can "create" any piano you like. Want a Yamaha? No problem. A Fazioli? Easy. Well the truth is all the presets - and regardless of whatever adjustment you make - sound the same - it has the same basic underlying tonal characteristic. And I don't like that sound - in the midrange it has a processed, artificial, synthetic "hollow" quality that just doesn't sound like a real piano - it sounds like an electronic emulation of one (not a very good one either).

The dynamics and nuance and expressiveness are second to none - its response to the player's inputs is far and away the best you will find in a digital piano. So it's a curious mixture of very good (the best) and in my opinion really rather bad.

Please note that I have had it confirmed to me by the Roland UK V-Piano product specialist that when designing the V-Piano they had to start with a sound, a basic tonal structure. And everything the V-Piano does is based around that tone. So if you don't like that sound, you are not going to like the sound of the V-Piano.

One final point, Roland KNEW it was a problem for some people - they KNEW there was an issue with the midrange tones. In the V-Piano Grand they have introduced a new model which is structurally different (you cannot adjust the same parameters). This new tone fixes the problem and does not have the electronic hollow midrange of the other V-Piano voices. This new tone can be loaded into the original V-Piano although you need the cooperation of Roland to achieve that.

So a V-PIano with the new model in it from the V-Grand would be a very good thing. It is still characteristic of the Roland tonal signature (so you need to like that) but the midrange issue can be fixed in this way.

About half the V-Piano owners on this forum got rid of them for all the same reasons and one or two owners who still have the V-Piano have misgivings about its sound.

Cheers,

Steve

btcomm,
Instead of taking what our very, very, very good friend Essbrace says at face value (he's been saying the same thing ever since he lost interest in the V-Piano and got rid of it), why not play the black beast (or beauty) for yourself, dialling in the settings I suggested on another thread (or look up my old V-Piano thread where I gave a long list of settings that emulate well-known acoustic brands). If you still don't like what you hear, that's fine - everyone has their own tastes in piano sound (and tastes also change with time, as many here have discovered...).

All I'll say is that I've been playing acoustic pianos all my life (OK, since 10... ) and the V-Piano is the only DP that comes close to the playing and sound experience I get from a well-tuned and regulated concert grand. The V-Piano Grand has the same 28 different piano sounds (from which you can customize your own settings) plus two extra which are nice to have, but not indispensible, IMO - they aren't a complete departure from the other presets that both have (I've played the Grand in a concert hall, where its projection and power at fff is truly wondrous).

And I'm reminded of how good the V-Piano is every time I go into a DP store and try out the new DPs.....

I didn't "lose interest", it simply did not deliver the promise - or anything even close to it. You cannot even imagine how much I wanted it to work. But to use modern parlance it was an "epic fail".

Was the fail on this level?



Or this?




(just thought this topic could use a diversion)

Or this ... Essbrace vs. Bennevis ... aka V-piano-hate vs. AG-hate ...

Ah, I remember the days when I was boxing... (OK, it was just a 'Boxercise' fitness class in the gym and most of my 'opponents' were female.... ).

But I must admit I never felt like I wanted to punch the AG, no matter how unresponsive it felt when I tried to get something like a real fortissimo out of it, and it would only give me a limp mf. I just kept thinking: what a wasted opportunity Yamaha can't give the thing real 'welly' (as the Northerners would say) and get some modelling into the AG's gizzards so that it begins to play and feel like the real thing, rather than just having the action resembling the real thing.

The difference between me and bennevis is that I can happily acknowledge the considerable strengths of the V-Piano and the considerable weaknesses of the AvantGrand. And of course I have owned both.

Bennevis would like to do rude things with the V-Piano, such is his blind (and deaf) devotion to it and apparently cannot find a single praiseworthy element to the AvantGrand - he even refuses to acknowledge the undoubted superiority of the action. His views completely lack balance. And as a result he lacks credibility.

Pray, do elucidate.....

Let's just say it's a good job the V-Piano doesn't have a convenient "orifice". I shudder to think what you'd get up to with it!

as a curious passerby, thanks for the credible and thorough review of the V-Piano, EssBrace. As someone who unfortunately lives far from music stores (especially those that would have such a digital on display to try), I always find such well-thought-out reviews interesting and thought-provoking.

Thanks Bob. But my thoughts are just that; my thoughts. I'd encourage anyone to try the V-Piano - there are some enthusiastic owners of it. I cannot believe they don't hear what I hear because to me it's so blatant - but it would appear they don't hear it - or are willing to sacrifice a measure of sonic realism for the unmatched dynamics. And if anyone really likes the sound of the V-Piano then for them it represents a unique commodity - a near perfect digital piano.

Cheers,

Steve

There are some fine performances by concert pianists (Yana Reznik, among others) of virtuoso repertoire on the V-Piano Grand on Youtube, played in classical concert settings, the same way they'd be performing on acoustic concert grands like the Steinway D - no artificial amplification or sound manipulation, just the sounds from the V-Grand's own speakers, with mikes at a judicious distance from the instrument.

I think it's significant that among DPs, only Roland's V-Piano Grand - which is basically the V-Piano in a cabinet with dedicated speakers - has been tested in such surroundings and such a manner. Listen carefully to the nuances at all tonal and dynamic ranges, and note in particular the dynamic range and power of the Roland, even within the recording limitations of Youtube - I can attest that in the flesh, the sound and depth of tone and color you can draw from the instrument (once it's been appropriately tweaked) is well-nigh indistinguishable from that of an acoustic concert grand, as I played on the V-P Grand myself following its London debut in the RCM concert hall last year.

As for its sound per se, if you can hear any 'artificiality' in its mid-range (as our dear friend EB keeps claiming ), then look up all EB's previous posts on the V-P to get a greater insight into exactly what it is he's hearing, for they're undoubtedly extremely insightful . If you don't, but instead hear what sounds like a rich-sounding grand piano, look up my previous reviews on this forum, including of that RCM concert. There're also many other comments from other happy V-P owners, who rarely post here, not to mention many rave reviews in several publications - none of which mentioned any so-called 'mid-range' problems that EB claims everyone with ears not blocked with wax should be able to hear...(look up the reviews in Performing Musician, Sound on Sound among others). In fact, as far as I know, this is the only place where 'mid-range' issues have cropped up and been discussed ad nauseam, ad infinitum, ad....

BTW, why is it that Yamaha, despite having so many classical pianists on its rosters, never tried to put on a classical concert using the AG, unamplified, unadulterated?

Because Yamaha is an acoustic piano company, and one of the most highly respected names in classical music. They don't need to pretend that the AvantGrand is comparable to a CFX concert grand piano. Nobody would believe them.

Roland on the other hand is not an acoustic piano company, and consequently is not as well respected a name in classical music. They need to pretend that the V-Piano Grand is comparable to a concert grand because, well, that's the 'best' instrument they have. Alas, nobody believes them.

James
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