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#1990209 - 11/24/12 03:24 AM Synthogy Ivory II glitch?  
Joined: Nov 2012
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James70k Offline
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James70k  Offline
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Hi guys, did you notice there is a faint clicking sound in Ivory II German D's C4 Key? This occur when playing at the velocity between 67 to 83. It is especially obvious between velocity 67 to 74. The rest of the keys are just fine without any clicking sound.

Here is my setting,

Sample: German D (8 Levels or higher)
Timbre (knob): 99
Lid Position: Full Stick
Timbre Shift: 0
Stereo Perspective: Performer
Velocity Map: Arc Type (Mild), Hardness (0.0%)

As for the rest of the parameter settings, it does not affect the clicking sound.

I'm doing some recording and honestly this clicking sound is quite annoying. I'm very sure it is not due to poor computer performance because this occur even if I'm just playing a single note (C4). Can someone help to verify this, please? I'm just wondering if this is a software glitch or is it inherent within the recorded sample..

Thanks in advance!

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#1990272 - 11/24/12 10:13 AM Re: Synthogy Ivory II glitch? [Re: James70k]  
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djwayne Offline
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djwayne  Offline
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I tried setting up Ivory II to your specs and did NOT get a clicking sound. It sounded like a normal piano to me. Maybe it's you midi controller ?? Did you try the on screen piano ?? I tried both and could not duplicate a clicking sound on C4.

#1990590 - 11/25/12 05:49 AM Re: Synthogy Ivory II glitch? [Re: James70k]  
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James70k Offline
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Yes, I did try the on screen piano and get the same thing. I've recorded a short clip to demonstrate this faint clicking sound from C4 key. It seems to appear on the right side of the stereo field. You probably need to use a headphone or earphone to hear it.

http://soundcloud.com/james-kob/ivory-ii-c4-key-clicking-sound

Do you hear it as well?

#1990704 - 11/25/12 01:05 PM Re: Synthogy Ivory II glitch? [Re: James70k]  
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djwayne Offline
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Sorry but I'm not hearing it in your sample...sounds like a normal piano sounds to me. I did try headphones, but nothing. I didn't hear any "clicking."

Last edited by djwayne; 11/25/12 01:06 PM.
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#1990714 - 11/25/12 01:36 PM Re: Synthogy Ivory II glitch? [Re: James70k]  
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sullivang Offline
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sullivang  Offline
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I can't hear any clicking either FWIW.

Greg.


Middle-aged Jeremy Clarkson acolyte.
#1990727 - 11/25/12 02:35 PM Re: Synthogy Ivory II glitch? [Re: James70k]  
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xorbe Offline
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I can hear it. It's like a fingernail tap or something.

#1990780 - 11/25/12 06:06 PM Re: Synthogy Ivory II glitch? [Re: James70k]  
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o0Ampy0o Offline
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The only thing resembling a click that I could hear is on every note played and seems to be part of the natural sound of an acoustic piano.

In that Soundcloud file the notes are all played at about the same velocity. Does the volume of the perceived click change when the keys are struck soft or heavy?

If there is no change, it might help sifting out the click if the keys were struck softer in a sample recording.

I am using Sennheiser HD600 headphones.

Last edited by o0Ampy0o; 11/25/12 09:18 PM. Reason: spelling
#1990784 - 11/25/12 06:49 PM Re: Synthogy Ivory II glitch? [Re: o0Ampy0o]  
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Macy Offline
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Does the Key Noise setting have any effect?


Macy

CVP-409GP, Garritan CFX, Vintage D, Ivory II GP's & American Concert D, Pianoteq, True Keys American D, Ravenscroft 275, Garritan Authorized Steinway, Alicia's Keys, EWQL Pianos, MainStage, iPad Pro/forScore/PageFlip Cicada, Custom Mac MIDI/Audio Software Design, Macs Everywhere
#1991062 - 11/26/12 12:16 PM Re: Synthogy Ivory II glitch? [Re: James70k]  
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James70k Offline
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xorbe, Yes, it sounded like a fingernail tap. It doesn't happen to the other keys, only on C4, that is why I feel something is wrong.

oOAmpyOo, the clicking sounds only occur between 67 to 83 velocity range, outside this range higher/lower it is not audible. It is particularly obvious between 67 to 74. I can hear the clicking sound easily when I'm using my iphone+earphones, with my macbook and headphone (Sennheiser HD200) it is less obvious.

Macy, the Key Noise setting does not eliminate that faint clicking sound, I've tested it. However lowering the Timbre knob to 0 or below does eliminate the sound. Anything between 1 to 99 on the Timbre produces the click.

Weird thing is only the German D have this problem, the Bonsendofer and Studio 7ft are both fine. I've Ivory II American concert D as well, no such problem. However I like German D's sound the most frown

#1992193 - 11/28/12 11:03 PM Re: Synthogy Ivory II glitch? [Re: James70k]  
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sullivang Offline
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sullivang  Offline
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I tried lowering the pitch an octave to perhaps make the click easier for me to hear. When I do that, AND listen with the headphones lifted off my ears a bit (which I have found makes hearing subtle clicks easier - quick & easy high frequency boost), yes, I can hear a tiny click in the right side only, using my AKG K601 headphones. (I still can't hear it using HD570 headphones) I still have not heard the click under any circumstances playing the recording at normal pitch.

If this is the artifact, needless to say it is far, far too subtle for me to ever have noticed, unless perhaps I had applied EQ to boost the highs, or applied any other effect which boosted the highs.

Greg.
p.s Listening to a lossily compressed recording at a significantly different pitch to the original is probably not ideal. I.e - I should have requested the uncompressed original recording. However, since I am only hearing the click on that C4 note, I think the test is probably ok.

Last edited by sullivang; 11/28/12 11:15 PM.

Middle-aged Jeremy Clarkson acolyte.
#1992197 - 11/28/12 11:11 PM Re: Synthogy Ivory II glitch? [Re: James70k]  
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xorbe Offline
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Originally Posted by James70k
xorbe, Yes, it sounded like a fingernail tap. It doesn't happen to the other keys, only on C4, that is why I feel something is wrong.

Yeah, I heard it on just the one note. I'm not sure I would have noticed if you hadn't pointed it out, but now it's too late, haha. It's one of those things that don't annoy you until you notice -- like DLP color wheel flicker, etc.

Last edited by xorbe; 11/28/12 11:12 PM.
#1992217 - 11/29/12 12:03 AM Re: Synthogy Ivory II glitch? [Re: James70k]  
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o0Ampy0o Offline
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Assuming it is "the click" you are referring to, I hear a click on every note.

Some hear a click on C4 exclusively.

Some do not hear a click at all.

Hearing a click may depend on what you are using to listen with rather than being an indication of a glitch in the software.

IOW, there may be a click every time a note is hit yet the listening device may be what determines whether it is heard on every note, only on C4 or not at all.

The gathered data is inconclusive.

Last edited by o0Ampy0o; 11/29/12 01:11 AM.
#1992847 - 11/30/12 02:11 PM Re: Synthogy Ivory II glitch? [Re: sullivang]  
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James70k Offline
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James70k  Offline
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Originally Posted by sullivang
I tried lowering the pitch an octave to perhaps make the click easier for me to hear. When I do that, AND listen with the headphones lifted off my ears a bit (which I have found makes hearing subtle clicks easier - quick & easy high frequency boost), yes, I can hear a tiny click in the right side only, using my AKG K601 headphones. (I still can't hear it using HD570 headphones) I still have not heard the click under any circumstances playing the recording at normal pitch.

If this is the artifact, needless to say it is far, far too subtle for me to ever have noticed, unless perhaps I had applied EQ to boost the highs, or applied any other effect which boosted the highs.

Greg.
p.s Listening to a lossily compressed recording at a significantly different pitch to the original is probably not ideal. I.e - I should have requested the uncompressed original recording. However, since I am only hearing the click on that C4 note, I think the test is probably ok.


I agree with your observation. When I use my iPhone with earphones, the click is more obvious as compared to using my macbook pro with sennheiser HD200 (in this combination, the lower frequencies are stronger and blur out the click sound). However in your test, you also notice that the "click" is happening only on C4 note and not the rest.

#1992853 - 11/30/12 02:20 PM Re: Synthogy Ivory II glitch? [Re: xorbe]  
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James70k Offline
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Originally Posted by xorbe
Originally Posted by James70k
xorbe, Yes, it sounded like a fingernail tap. It doesn't happen to the other keys, only on C4, that is why I feel something is wrong.

Yeah, I heard it on just the one note. I'm not sure I would have noticed if you hadn't pointed it out, but now it's too late, haha. It's one of those things that don't annoy you until you notice -- like DLP color wheel flicker, etc.


May I know what device and earphones/headphones did you use to listen to the recording? Initially I din't notice the click too, until one day when I happen to record a clip that has more C4 key, thats when I realize the click sound. Since you only hear this "click" sound from C4 key only and not the other keys, now I'm more certain of my observation.

#1992865 - 11/30/12 02:38 PM Re: Synthogy Ivory II glitch? [Re: o0Ampy0o]  
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James70k Offline
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James70k  Offline
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Originally Posted by o0Ampy0o
Assuming it is "the click" you are referring to, I hear a click on every note.

Some hear a click on C4 exclusively.

Some do not hear a click at all.

Hearing a click may depend on what you are using to listen with rather than being an indication of a glitch in the software.

IOW, there may be a click every time a note is hit yet the listening device may be what determines whether it is heard on every note, only on C4 or not at all.

The gathered data is inconclusive.


My inclination is this "click" sound probably comes from the sample source rather than a software glitch, because it only happens on German D and not the other piano samples. I agree with you, how much one hear this "click" depends on the player device and earphones/headphones. May I know what listening devices did you use to listen to the recording?

#1992882 - 11/30/12 03:19 PM Re: Synthogy Ivory II glitch? [Re: James70k]  
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sullivang Offline
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sullivang  Offline
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Sydney, Australia
Originally Posted by James70k

My inclination is this "click" sound probably comes from the sample source rather than a software glitch, because it only happens on German D and not the other piano samples.


Absolutely. Clicks are VERY easy to introduce into a given sample when the sample is edited, even if the click was not in the original recording of the sample. When a sample is recorded, it must be truncated so that it can be used by the sample player - the part of the recording before the hammer strike must be removed, so that there is no delay when a key is pressed and the sample is "played" by the sample player. If this unwanted part of the sample is not removed carefully, a click can be created. This doesn't mean that this click was definitely caused by this editing, but it could have been. (alternatively, the click sound may have been in the original recording of that sample for whatever reason, and the instrument designers simply didn't hear it, and thus didn't do any processing to remove the click)

It's important to understand that these sampled pianos comprise hundreds (of not thousands) of seperate little recordings ("samples") of the piano. It is very easy for there to be problems with some samples and not others.

Greg.

Last edited by sullivang; 11/30/12 03:30 PM.

Middle-aged Jeremy Clarkson acolyte.
#1993032 - 12/01/12 12:29 AM Re: Synthogy Ivory II glitch? [Re: James70k]  
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o0Ampy0o Offline
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Originally Posted by James70k
...May I know what listening devices did you use to listen to the recording?

I listened using both Sennheiser HD 580 and Sennheiser HD 600 headphones.

#1993046 - 12/01/12 01:33 AM Re: Synthogy Ivory II glitch? [Re: James70k]  
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xorbe Offline
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Originally Posted by James70k
May I know what device and earphones/headphones did you use to listen to the recording?


Lol, sit down first ... I jammed my netbook against my ear! I was traveling at the time and not anywhere near my AKGs.

#1993205 - 12/01/12 01:11 PM Re: Synthogy Ivory II glitch? [Re: James70k]  
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PtJaa Offline
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Is it possible to remap the offending sample?

I had a similar problem in Galaxy Vintage D. Solved it by remapping the offending samples with samples from another key (quite simple in Galaxy pianos, as long as you have the full Kontakt).
If remapping was possible, it would be the easiest way to remedy the problem.


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