Welcome to the Piano World Piano Forums
Over 2.5 million posts about pianos, digital pianos, and all types of keyboard instruments
Join the World's Largest Community of Piano Lovers (it's free)
It's Fun to Play the Piano ... Please Pass It On!


SEARCH
Piano Forums & Piano World
(ad)
Virtual Sheet Music
Download Sheet Music Instantly
Virtual Sheet Music - Classical Sheet Music Downloads
Sheet Music...
(ad)
Accu-Tuner
Sanderson Accu-Tuner
(125ad)
Piano Life Saver - Dampp Chaser
Dampp Chaser Piano Life Saver
(ad)
Modern Piano Moving
Modern Piano Moving
(ad)
Piano Buyer Guide
Piano Buyer Spring 2017
(ad)
Lindeblad Piano
Lindeblad Piano Restorations and sales
Who's Online Now
100 registered members (alphonsus, Almaviva, AndyP, alexcawley, Adypiano, 36251, 23 invisible), 1,441 guests, and 8 spiders.
Key: Admin, Global Mod, Mod
(ad)
Estonia Pianos
Estonia Pianos
Quick Links to Useful Piano & Music Resources
Our Classified Ads
Find Piano Professionals-

*Piano Dealers - Piano Stores
*Piano Tuners
*Piano Teachers
*Piano Movers
*Piano Restorations
*Piano Manufacturers

Quick Links:
*Advertise On Piano World
*Free Piano Newsletter
*Online Piano Recitals
*Piano Recitals Index
*Piano & Music Accessories
*Live Piano Venues
*Music School Listings
* Buying a Piano
*Buying A Acoustic Piano
*Buying a Digital Piano
*Pianos for Sale
*Sell Your Piano
*How Old is My Piano?
*Directory/Site Map
*Virtual Piano
*Music Word Search
*Piano Videos
*Virtual Piano Chords & Scales
Previous Thread
Next Thread
Print Thread
#1989604 - 11/21/12 11:31 PM What does this musical symbol mean?  
Joined: May 2001
Posts: 22,240
pianoloverus Online content
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member
pianoloverus  Online Content
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member

Joined: May 2001
Posts: 22,240
New York City
I can't show you a picture of the symbol of piece it came from a I lack the computer skills. The piece was a jazz version of White Christmas. The symbol looked liked a quarter of a circle...the part from 12:15 to 12:30. At first I thought it was some misprint on the score but it appeared many times....each time before a tied single note G in the bass.

(ad)
Piano & Music Accessories
piano accessories music gifts tuning and moving equipment
#1989612 - 11/22/12 12:19 AM Re: What does this musical symbol mean? [Re: pianoloverus]  
Joined: Nov 2007
Posts: 6,491
Nikolas Offline
6000 Post Club Member
Nikolas  Offline
6000 Post Club Member

Joined: Nov 2007
Posts: 6,491
UK
Is it filled (black)? Or not?

#1989620 - 11/22/12 12:34 AM Re: What does this musical symbol mean? [Re: Nikolas]  
Joined: May 2001
Posts: 22,240
pianoloverus Online content
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member
pianoloverus  Online Content
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member

Joined: May 2001
Posts: 22,240
New York City
Originally Posted by Nikolas
Is it filled (black)? Or not?
No, just like a quarter of a circle drawn.

#1989628 - 11/22/12 01:40 AM Re: What does this musical symbol mean? [Re: pianoloverus]  
Joined: Aug 2009
Posts: 6,451
ChopinAddict Offline
6000 Post Club Member
ChopinAddict  Offline
6000 Post Club Member

Joined: Aug 2009
Posts: 6,451
Land of the never-ending music
Maybe it is a jazz symbol (I don't play jazz, but jazz has its own symbols, for example if you look at this page and search for "jazz symbols" it shows something that could be what you are looking for).



[Linked Image]

Music is my best friend.


(ad ) MusicNotes.com
sheet music search
#1989730 - 11/22/12 11:42 AM Re: What does this musical symbol mean? [Re: pianoloverus]  
Joined: Sep 2011
Posts: 589
Thrill Science Offline
500 Post Club Member
Thrill Science  Offline
500 Post Club Member

Joined: Sep 2011
Posts: 589
California
Can you photograph it with your phone and email it to someone who can put it up here?

It sounds like a "wedge" -- an accent -- but usually these are triangular and not 1/4 of a circle.


Robert Swirsky
Thrill Science, Inc.
#1989744 - 11/22/12 12:35 PM Re: What does this musical symbol mean? [Re: pianoloverus]  
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 1,124
rada Offline
1000 Post Club Member
rada  Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 1,124
pagosa springs,co
Does it have a dot under it? If so it's a fermata.

rada

#1989750 - 11/22/12 12:42 PM Re: What does this musical symbol mean? [Re: rada]  
Joined: May 2001
Posts: 20,295
BruceD Offline
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member
BruceD  Offline

Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member

Joined: May 2001
Posts: 20,295
Victoria, BC
Originally Posted by rada
Does it have a dot under it? If so it's a fermata.

rada


No; he said that the curved line occurs at the 3 to 6 position on a clock.


BruceD
- - - - -
Estonia 190
#1989753 - 11/22/12 12:49 PM Re: What does this musical symbol mean? [Re: pianoloverus]  
Joined: May 2001
Posts: 20,295
BruceD Offline
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member
BruceD  Offline

Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member

Joined: May 2001
Posts: 20,295
Victoria, BC
Originally Posted by pianoloverus
I can't show you a picture of the symbol of piece it came from a I lack the computer skills. The piece was a jazz version of White Christmas. The symbol looked liked a quarter of a circle...the part from 12:15 to 12:30. At first I thought it was some misprint on the score but it appeared many times....each time before a tied single note G in the bass.


I wonder if it is a symbol used in jazz somewhat akin to a "slide" or "schleifer" in Baroque music where two notes of the scale below the note on the score are played, quickly, step-wise on the beat before the principal note. Conventionally, this would be noted as grace notes before the beat, but I'm wondering - pure speculation on my part and if this symbol represents what I'm suggesting - if this gives the performer a choice of how many notes to play rather than being given a specific number as in the grace notes.

It seems to me that what I suggest is something I've heard in jazz/pop piano music, although not having any jazz scores, I've not seen how this might be notated other than as grace notes before the beat.

Regards,


BruceD
- - - - -
Estonia 190
#1989762 - 11/22/12 01:21 PM Re: What does this musical symbol mean? [Re: BruceD]  
Joined: May 2003
Posts: 2,534
RealPlayer Offline
2000 Post Club Member
RealPlayer  Offline
2000 Post Club Member

Joined: May 2003
Posts: 2,534
NYC
If it *always* occurs before the tied G, could it be a glitch in the engraving process that put it there? In other words, a mistake? Where is it, exactly, in relation to the tied notes -- right in front of them, and on the same level?

#1989827 - 11/22/12 04:32 PM Re: What does this musical symbol mean? [Re: RealPlayer]  
Joined: May 2001
Posts: 22,240
pianoloverus Online content
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member
pianoloverus  Online Content
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member

Joined: May 2001
Posts: 22,240
New York City
Originally Posted by RealPlayer
If it *always* occurs before the tied G, could it be a glitch in the engraving process that put it there? In other words, a mistake? Where is it, exactly, in relation to the tied notes -- right in front of them, and on the same level?
It's always slightly to the left a slightly below the note head for first of the two tied G's. I'm guessing the arranger used some computer program to print this piece so it may very well be a glitch. The piece sounds perfectly OK to me as is(without assuming this symbol adds anything).

Last edited by pianoloverus; 11/22/12 04:34 PM.
#1989835 - 11/22/12 04:49 PM Re: What does this musical symbol mean? [Re: BruceD]  
Joined: May 2001
Posts: 22,240
pianoloverus Online content
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member
pianoloverus  Online Content
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member

Joined: May 2001
Posts: 22,240
New York City
Originally Posted by BruceD

I wonder if it is a symbol used in jazz somewhat akin to a "slide" or "schleifer" in Baroque music where two notes of the scale below the note on the score are played, quickly, step-wise on the beat before the principal note.
I can't imagine adding any grace notes before the G's would sound good in this instance, but that may just be because I've learned it without adding any extra notes and am used to hearing it that way.

#1990426 - 11/24/12 06:54 PM Re: What does this musical symbol mean? [Re: pianoloverus]  
Joined: Nov 2007
Posts: 933
daviel Offline
500 Post Club Member
daviel  Offline
500 Post Club Member

Joined: Nov 2007
Posts: 933
Waxahachie, Texas


"Forget it, Jake. It's Chinatown."
David Loving, Waxahachie, Texas
#1990585 - 11/25/12 05:14 AM Re: What does this musical symbol mean? [Re: pianoloverus]  
Joined: May 2012
Posts: 1,393
Bobpickle Offline

Gold Supporter until July 10  2014
Bobpickle  Offline

Gold Supporter until July 10  2014


Joined: May 2012
Posts: 1,393
Cameron Park, California
Sounds kind of like a scoop, which you could likely get a good description of on the non-classical forums if you haven't tried already. I've encountered these in Jamey Aebersold jazz instructional texts that aren't instrument-specific (not sure any of his are).

Scoop - (music, often with "up") To begin a vocal note slightly below the target pitch and then to slide up to the target pitch, especially in country music.




of the picture you and bruce described, a Breath Mark also comes to mind, though I can hardly imagine why such a mark would come up in discussion here or be listed on any piano transcriptions (or why you wouldn't say the symbol looked like a comma)

Last edited by Bobpickle; 11/25/12 05:15 AM.

"[The trick to life isn't] just about living forever. The trick is still living with yourself forever."
#1990586 - 11/25/12 05:18 AM Re: What does this musical symbol mean? [Re: Bobpickle]  
Joined: Aug 2009
Posts: 6,451
ChopinAddict Offline
6000 Post Club Member
ChopinAddict  Offline
6000 Post Club Member

Joined: Aug 2009
Posts: 6,451
Land of the never-ending music
I had initially thought it could be a breath mark too, but then I noticed he said "in the bass" (and breath marks are usually not in the bass). I am pretty sure it is a jazz symbol.



[Linked Image]

Music is my best friend.


#1990606 - 11/25/12 08:46 AM Re: What does this musical symbol mean? [Re: pianoloverus]  
Joined: May 2001
Posts: 22,240
pianoloverus Online content
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member
pianoloverus  Online Content
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member

Joined: May 2001
Posts: 22,240
New York City
I emailed the person who arranged this piece after finding out his PW name in another thread where he posted an arrangement of Lo How A Rose E're Blooming. So if he gets back to me we'll all find out if this is a symbol or a typo.

It's not a breath mark which is shaped like a comma and has a different shape then I described in my OP.

#1990757 - 11/25/12 05:07 PM Re: What does this musical symbol mean? [Re: pianoloverus]  
Joined: Nov 2009
Posts: 303
LimeFriday Offline
Full Member
LimeFriday  Offline
Full Member

Joined: Nov 2009
Posts: 303
Australia
[Linked Image]

Is this an example of the symbol? From what I gather - it is a scoop.

#1990801 - 11/25/12 08:56 PM Re: What does this musical symbol mean? [Re: LimeFriday]  
Joined: May 2001
Posts: 22,240
pianoloverus Online content
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member
pianoloverus  Online Content
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member

Joined: May 2001
Posts: 22,240
New York City
Originally Posted by LimeFriday
[Linked Image]

Is this an example of the symbol? From what I gather - it is a scoop.
Yes, the version in the piece I mentioned looks like the one next to the E in your score. So what does it mean?

#1990839 - 11/25/12 11:09 PM Re: What does this musical symbol mean? [Re: pianoloverus]  
Joined: Nov 2009
Posts: 303
LimeFriday Offline
Full Member
LimeFriday  Offline
Full Member

Joined: Nov 2009
Posts: 303
Australia
I am no expert by any means - so don't take my word as gospel - but my understanding is that it indicates sliding up to the note. Starting slightly below pitch - and sliding to the note. I've heard it used by acoustic and electric guitars - but I would imagine it's used elsewhere as well.

#1990847 - 11/25/12 11:31 PM Re: What does this musical symbol mean? [Re: LimeFriday]  
Joined: May 2001
Posts: 22,240
pianoloverus Online content
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member
pianoloverus  Online Content
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member

Joined: May 2001
Posts: 22,240
New York City
Originally Posted by LimeFriday
I am no expert by any means - so don't take my word as gospel - but my understanding is that it indicates sliding up to the note. Starting slightly below pitch - and sliding to the note. I've heard it used by acoustic and electric guitars - but I would imagine it's used elsewhere as well.
The music in question is for solo piano.

#1990870 - 11/26/12 12:21 AM Re: What does this musical symbol mean? [Re: pianoloverus]  
Joined: Nov 2007
Posts: 6,491
Nikolas Offline
6000 Post Club Member
Nikolas  Offline
6000 Post Club Member

Joined: Nov 2007
Posts: 6,491
UK
Originally Posted by pianoloverus
Originally Posted by LimeFriday
[Linked Image]

Is this an example of the symbol? From what I gather - it is a scoop.
Yes, the version in the piece I mentioned looks like the one next to the E in your score. So what does it mean?
Ah... ok then...

This is why none of us could understand what you mean. This is a symbol for winds instruments (mostly, and could also apply to strings as well if need be).

It's the idea of 'gliding into the right note'. If this is a score for keyboards rather than piano, then I'd assume that the composer/editor means using the pitch wheel a little. If this is for piano though, I'd just do a couple of appogiaturas there and get it over with...

Depending on the bend, and the direction of the note, you chose the right appogiaturas... That's all there is to it. But it totally makes sense that noone could understand what you mean. It's very very rarely seen in piano music. If you had gone to the non classical forum, I think you'd have a much better chance of getting a reply sooner!

#1990873 - 11/26/12 12:35 AM Re: What does this musical symbol mean? [Re: pianoloverus]  
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 6,612
Damon Offline
6000 Post Club Member
Damon  Offline
6000 Post Club Member

Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 6,612
Originally Posted by pianoloverus
Originally Posted by LimeFriday
I am no expert by any means - so don't take my word as gospel - but my understanding is that it indicates sliding up to the note. Starting slightly below pitch - and sliding to the note. I've heard it used by acoustic and electric guitars - but I would imagine it's used elsewhere as well.
The music in question is for solo piano.


Who's arrangement is it?

#1992221 - 11/29/12 01:11 AM Re: What does this musical symbol mean? [Re: pianoloverus]  
Joined: Dec 2010
Posts: 1,304
LoPresti Offline
1000 Post Club Member
LoPresti  Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Joined: Dec 2010
Posts: 1,304
New York
Think of a bagpipe, warming up . . .


In music, everything one does correctly helps everything else.
#1992225 - 11/29/12 01:15 AM Re: What does this musical symbol mean? [Re: Damon]  
Joined: May 2001
Posts: 22,240
pianoloverus Online content
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member
pianoloverus  Online Content
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member

Joined: May 2001
Posts: 22,240
New York City
Originally Posted by Damon
Originally Posted by pianoloverus
Originally Posted by LimeFriday
I am no expert by any means - so don't take my word as gospel - but my understanding is that it indicates sliding up to the note. Starting slightly below pitch - and sliding to the note. I've heard it used by acoustic and electric guitars - but I would imagine it's used elsewhere as well.
The music in question is for solo piano.


Who's arrangement is it?
J. Keil

#1992621 - 11/29/12 11:47 PM Re: What does this musical symbol mean? [Re: pianoloverus]  
Joined: Nov 2007
Posts: 933
daviel Offline
500 Post Club Member
daviel  Offline
500 Post Club Member

Joined: Nov 2007
Posts: 933
Waxahachie, Texas
Here is a scoop used in charts for horn players: lead sheets scoop

Looks like the music above has the player falling off to a rest and slurring up to a rest. You can slur notes on a piano. Done all the time in jazz and blues. The Chopin I'm learning has series of tiny notes leading to the end note.

I have never seen the symbol at the last 1/2 note chord - squiggly arrow. I'm used to a broken chord symbol - always in my world rolled from the bass on up. I have never seen one with an arrowhead on the top.

OP said it is a jazz version of White Christmas - so it's probably intended to mean a pitch wheel maneuver. I play keys, but most of the keyboard players I know don't read!

Last edited by daviel; 11/29/12 11:57 PM.

"Forget it, Jake. It's Chinatown."
David Loving, Waxahachie, Texas
#1992645 - 11/30/12 01:56 AM Re: What does this musical symbol mean? [Re: pianoloverus]  
Joined: Dec 2004
Posts: 1,203
Auntie Lynn Offline
1000 Post Club Member
Auntie Lynn  Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Joined: Dec 2004
Posts: 1,203
San Francisco, CA
I have the same situation with a crazy looking squiggle marking at the end of one of the Bolcom Ghost Rags...nobody has been able to figure it out (so far)...

Last edited by Auntie Lynn; 11/30/12 01:57 AM.
#1992659 - 11/30/12 02:50 AM What does this musical symbol mean? [Re: Auntie Lynn]  
Joined: Dec 2010
Posts: 1,304
LoPresti Offline
1000 Post Club Member
LoPresti  Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Joined: Dec 2010
Posts: 1,304
New York
Originally Posted by Auntie Lynn
I have the same situation with a crazy looking squiggle marking at the end of one of the Bolcom Ghost Rags...nobody has been able to figure it out (so far)...

Let me see . . . . . what could we all learn from this thread so far?
Reviewing for a moment, our original poster gave a word description (actually a pretty graphic one!) of the symbol he was attempting to decipher.
Nicholas attempted to get a more complete picture. Others started guessing, and zeroing in on jazz articulation. Then BobPickle had a very educated guess, but we had no way of being sure.
But it was not until someone actually posted the pictures of these symbols, and they were verified by our original poster, that Nikolas could actually, and definitively say, this is a _____.

Now, here we are, a few days later, with a new and different word description. So, let's see - we could ask more questions verbally, and then a few individuals could start guessing at it, based on the word descriptions. And then, someone else could hunt around and link-in an image of what we think this "crazy looking squiggle marking" might be. And then we'll need to wait for confirmation from Auntie Lynn that one of them is the correct symbol in question.
=OR=
Auntie Lynn could just post an image of the "crazy looking squiggle marking", so we can decipher it for her.

But, I guess that ruins the dance?


In music, everything one does correctly helps everything else.

Moderated by  Brendan, Kreisler 

Piano Acc. & Gift Items in
Piano World's Online Store
In PianoSupplies.com ,(a division of Piano World) our online store for piano and music gifts and accessories, party goods, tuning equipment, piano moving equipment, benches, lamps Caster Cups and more.


Free Shipping on Jansen Artist Piano Benches
ad
Pierce Piano Atlas


(ad)
Pianoteq
Grotrian Concert
Royal
for Pianoteq out now
(ad)
A. Geyer Pianos
A. Geyer Pianos
What's Hot!!
Why Do You Play The Piano?
-------------------
Posting Pictures on the Forums
-------------------
Forums RULES & HELP
-------------------
ADVERTISE on Piano World
-------------------
Piano Classified Ads
New Topics - Multiple Forums
Removing very old keys
by Don B. Cilly. 05/23/17 06:39 AM
The biggest problem of performing and teaching
by Vladimir Dounin. 05/23/17 04:06 AM
Posting images
by BruceD. 05/22/17 11:29 PM
Looking for Carillon Bell Sound
by SoundThumb. 05/22/17 11:08 PM
(ad)
Sheet Music Plus
Sheet Music Plus Featured Sale
Forum Statistics
Forums44
Topics179,829
Posts2,628,946
Members87,852
Most Online15,252
Mar 21st, 2010
Report Problems With New Forums
Report Problems with New Forums Here!
Visit our online store for gifts for music lovers

 
Help keep the forums up and running with a donation, any amount is appreciated!
Or by becoming a Subscribing member! Thank-you.
Donate   Subscribe
 
Our Piano Related Classified Ads
| Dealers | Tuners | Lessons | Movers | Restorations | Pianos For Sale | Sell Your Piano |

Advertise on Piano World
| Subscribe | Piano World | PianoSupplies.com | Advertise on Piano World |
| |Contact | Privacy | Legal | About Us | Site Map | Free Newsletter |


copyright 1997 - 2017 Piano World ® all rights reserved
No part of this site may be reproduced without prior written permission
Powered by UBB.threads™ PHP Forum Software 7.6.0