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+1 too!

Expectation is one thing and attitude is another. A long story about outsourced assembly line, subcontractors and etc. should not be the excuses for bad quality control. Unfinished polishing and keyboard problem says something about the quality of the products. Technicians doing reparations came without spare parts says something about the quality of the service. Together it is the attitude of the manufacture for their products and customers. This is also the reason why I rated a 4 for the service. In fact Kawai doesn't think a missing screw is a problem. It is the shop where I bought the piano wanted to send someone to me to put the screw on (1 hour drive). That's a 5 star service!

Not all companies are outsourcing everything.

roland

from their site: Every Roland digital piano is carefully assembled one by one. We’ve adopted the “cell production system,” in which one person is responsible for assembling a product from start to finish, increasing efficiency and assuring pride in workmanship and an extraordinarily high standards of quality.


If one company can do this, all of them can do this!

I really think that just expecting to buy something that will need fixing within days or weeks of taking it home is ludicrous. We should expect to get value for our money (and paying a bit more for it is hunky dory in my book.)

The whole disposable culture of goods needs to go.

Thumbs up for Roland then, but I'm afraid there are not many Roland's around. And...their products are indeed more expensive in comparisson to some other brands. That may say something, but is also a risk for Roland, cause people seem to expect both a low price and the best quality. On the other and price doesn't say everything: I've had several premium price A products the last few years, all with flaws and problems. Googling around showed it were not single incidents and only my bad luck - although I seem to have a talent for getting the wrong boxes all of the time ;-)

Of course there are some companies that do everything exactly right, but 1) they are a minority 2) they are almost always more pricey (no contradiction with my previous statement that price doesnt say everything; both are true)

I wish you could order any product without a doubt , but my experience and from people around is that that is simply no the case. In that is not only a few brands that are to blame, I don't think that's totally fair.

It's interesting that you mention Roland, because in my experience their product quality does seem to be a cut above the norm. That is not to say that I've had a bad experience with other DP manufacturers (certain Italian producers excepted), but the premium you sometimes pay for Roland does seem to be reflected in the physical quality of the product.


I agree wholeheartedly with this. I had a classic example of the problem with a microwave installed in a brand new house. It lasted 13 months before fizzling out, whereas a freestanding one from the 1980s is still going strong. And, from a little bit of Googling, I discovered that this is a million miles from being an isolated incident.

However, it will take a cultural shift for this to be remedied. Many corporations now seem to exist only for themselves. Products are almost incidental, and customers are a nuisance unless they quietly and uncomplainingly keep opening their wallets. However, I really don't believe that this is the case for companies like Kawai. Although there are some irritating marketing practices, Kawai generally produces a very good product. A lot of the complaints seen on this forum are aired here in large part due to the presence of Kawai James (who really does care). They have had issues that result from transporting delicate but heavy products worldwide, but have addressed those problems in a timely manner.

This thread deals in part with poor finish. I can't recall having seen another post about that in recent times. Clearly, QC wasn't as effective as it should have been in this instance, and there may be pressure at the factory to occasionally overlook things that will affect production figures and times but, unless it becomes a regular occurrence, I don't think Kawai should be pilloried for it if, as they have done, they address the issue to the customer's satisfaction. I agree it shouldn't happen in the first place, but we live in a world where everyone expects everything yesterday and at a bargain price.

The wooden bar above the keyboard has some room to be shifted up en down by loosing the screw. It is by design, but I not sure why it is designed like that? Maybe to cope with different types of keyboard? I hope it stays at this position and won't fall on the keyboard again. To cope with the raised bar they also put some tape between two boards to make some room. Thats a mickey mouse fix. The missing screw is inside the piano. I can just buy one but I don't want to open the piano myself. As long as the piano works, I am ok with it.

I'm not saying yay or nay against kawai. I have no experience of their products, I can only read what's here about them. I also agree with having James on board means more complaints are heard. I really wish the other dp companies (including Roland) would have someone on the forum also. James is awesome.

Casio, on the other hand, I did own and is not worth the money. The increased amount of complaints on here is alarming.

I've been shifting my attitude of what I buy and who from for awhile. I'm getting more picky and have learned that delaying a purchase to save up for a higher quality, better built and conscientious company is to my benefit. I also don't buy just to buy. I buy what I need and hold on to what I own.

I hope I'm not the only one who's shifting to this attitude.

Deleted

Perhaps I'm just triggered by the words "totally unacceptable " that creeps up in just about any thread and with just about any problem, or perceived problem, be it small or big. It looses its meaning in this way. Let's leave the biggest misses for "totally unacceptable" and smaller issues , that are often fixed and/ or replaced to other less heavy handed terms. I'm no just referring to this thread, but also other reported issues, or misunderstood characteristics (happens too) in other threads. "Totally unacceptable" sounds to me like really unsolvable bad and a huge overall failure of the company involved. Single issues that require replacements or fixes are bad enough in itself and certainly an annoyance , but if dealt with in a proper way , I wonder if "totally unacceptable" is the right qualification . Of course everyone is entitled to their own opinion , to me it just sounds rather angry if applied to every incident.

Note: personally I'm not sure if I had a big bulky and heavy DP unpacked and assembled in my room and there's a problem that can be fixed in my place, that I would play the unacceptable card immediately and request an new unit, considering disassembly, packing, transporting / unpacking , assembling the new unit and the hoping there's no other issue on the new unit that requires attention.

Anyway ...over and out. I hope you will enjoy the piano in the end, despite the repair history. I think it's a beautiful DP.

+1! My Roland FP-7F is beautifully made and hasn't given me a bit of trouble from Day One of ownership.

K.

Yes Roland's quality is top-notch in many ways. Just don't mention the key surface problems with Ivory Feel that they have allowed to drag on for years on end. All makers have issues now and again.

A consumer attitude of accepting, and apparently almost expecting, poor quality manufacturing as long as it can be corrected at the users home (or work location) after receipt of a new product is a key enabler that produces poor quality manufacturing in the first place. Excellence in product design and zero defects in manufacturing should be expected. It is achievable when it is expected and demanded by consumers and manufacturers.

Human error is always a variable, but it can be reduced to a negligible level with adequate process control. I say this as a product designer and former executive in a Fortune 500 technology company, that also owned his own small company which designed and manufactured its own high-tech products for over a decade. Consumers should demand the best quality and expect the best service. Then the most successful companies will be the best at providing both.

Interesting. I bought one a few years ago; the playing action was really light and good; ideal for playing in restaurants as I was then. But it sounded on occasions, like a howling banshee; something went wrong big time. It took nearly 12 months for them to accept responsibilty and replace the offending circuit board. A dealer in Preston (UK)refuses to sell `em, their reputation was so bad. Methinks it must have changed for the better now. But at the time, my dealer (Promenade Music, Morecambe, was less than helpful.

100 right ! I couldn't agree with you more. My experience with my Kawai CS9 should have been a totally different one! (http://www.pianoworld.com/forum/ubbthreads.php/topics/1957075.html)
Cheers,
Antonfranz

I'll second that.
If we expect poor quality, manufacturers will give us what we expect (and deserve).
So don't!

@antonfranz , I read your story carefully and understand your frustration. However , it is not clear and probably never will be, if the keys had been adjusted before the Kawai rep was called in to check the piano. In that case the keybed would have looked in pretty good shape and the judgement of the Kawai rep not to fix the keybed is normal . I'm not defending anyone in particular, but I have some experience with thomann and what they say and promise is not always what happens in reality. They are a big company with fast moving products and what happened to your CS in reality is unknown. Could have been that it has been standing around for while before someone took care of it. Could have been that they wanted a second opinion from Kawai in a later stadium , when they doubted if sending the unit back and forth was worth it, considering the logistic costs. They may have been afraid that you would find something else wrong with the unit later on and sent it back again, completely wiping out their profits. In all it seems to me that a Kawai rep came in only at a late stadium and perhaps Kawai service was only involved very late in this scenario, while in the meantime your frustration got time to wax. The fact that your CS had flaws is a bad thing. What happened afterward was something where thomann and Kawai were involved and what exactly was said and done and when we'll Never know. I've got promises broken and things said (that were not done or different in reality) with thomann as well, so my only point is that it is hard to lay blame on just one party for all that went wrong, when we weren't there to see what actually happened. Good to hear you enjoy your Yamaha ! looks very nice too...J

@ JFP

Your words sound very balanced and wise to me and I can share your comments despite my obvious frustration .Now I am happy with my Yamaha and that's what counts....
Thank you JFP.
Ciao,
Antonfranz

Hello.

Sorry to hear about your problems.

I own a Kawai MP10 and only have and/or had a few complaints with it.

First the sustain pedal was not consistently disengaging when I would lift up and away. I emailed Kawai US and they very quickly sent me a new double pedal module by FedEx. I was very impressed with Kawai US's fast response. Although, if I owned the company, I would have followed up with an email to see if my problem had been solved, instead of just assuming that it had.

The music stand on the Kawai MP10 is a very frustrating piece of hardware. You know how sometimes you wonder if the engineers actually try/use the things they design to see if they actually work or not. To see just how user friendly they are. Well that is the case with the music stand. That is, sheets of paper will bend (concave) then slide off onto the keyboard - very frustrating. More firm book like music will stay up (if they are firm enough). I am not bragging, but I could design/engineer a much better music stand for the Kawai MP10.

The last problem is that, by design, Kawai decided to not include the modeling (if that is the right term) for the sustaining vibration of the virtual key's strings when transitioning from the sustain pedal to re-engaging the respective key(s) on the keyboard. Some manufactures include this feature. Kawai apparently does not, at least on the MP10. I hope yours has this feature included.


WJS.

WJS,

Thank you your feedback about the MP10.

I'm glad to read that my colleagues at Kawai America were able to provide a replacement pedal unit efficiently. I'm not familiar with ther customer support follow-up policy, but will pass on your comments on Monday.

Regarding the music rest and individual sheets of music, this topic was discussed in the following thread:

http://www.pianoworld.com/forum/ubbthreads.php/topics/1973926/

However, I shall make a note of suggesting that the music rest design be improved for future instruments.

Finally, regarding the damper pedal re-engaging, this is another improvement that I would like to see implemented in future Kawai instruments.

Thank you once again for your useful feedback.

Kind regards,
James
x

I just made a post about an easy way to fix this... https://www.pianoworld.com/forum/ubb...0to%20Kawai%20MP10%20mu.html#Post1993408

Other than the music rest I'm pretty pleased with my MP10. I haven't had any problems with the sustain pedal or with key spacings.

Thanks Allan.

I read what K. James said on the other thread and saw your fix in the pictures.

I too may have to do that.