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and to my knowledge, Samick does not have controlling ownership of Steinway.
That's my recollection as well. At the time of the purchase, it was a minority interest, and more significantly, the shares issued were non-voting shares. Kirkland and Messina had a strenglehold on voting shares at the time.
The flap here seems to be about whether Steinway needs to be in a gilded palace in mid-Manhattan in order to sell its pianos into its local market. I doubt it, and don't understand that feeling, but maybe Woody Allen could explain it.
A company has to change when the market changes, or the market will eat them up. Steinway management is smart enough to change with the market. I see this as a financial positive for the company, that outweighs the proximity to Carnegie Hall. I'm confident Steinway has a solid plan going forward.
And.......... it doesn't take 20,000 employees to make a Steinway piano.
I'm all for jobs staying in North America but I do question the earlier thought that NY Steinways are equal to the other premium pianos primarily from Europe.
It is not uncommon to hear stories in the industry that for example, of 10 new Steinway pianos manufactured, 6 or 7 really shine with the character that their brand is known for. The other 3 or 4 don't provide quite the same impression. I've heard this more than once and it often makes me wonder - how has the company survived this long when 20-30% of its production is noticeably less stellar than what the other 70-80% is recognized for? If 20-30% of all the Mercedes that were manufactured did not perform to the expectations of the buying consumers, that would be considered a massive issue for the auto maker.
Even so, I echo the voices of reason that point out that the Steinway Hall sale shouldn't in any way suggest a beginning of the dismantling of S&S in America. Business decisions are likely being made with consideration of what will benefit the company to help keep it strong moving forward.
John J.D. Grandt Piano Supply Company www.jdgrandt.com https://www.facebook.com/JDGrandtPianoSupplyCo J.D. Grandt (Worldwide) Steingraeber & Söhne (Canada) Lomence Modern Crystal Piano (North America) Piano Bass String Manufacturing Specialist (Worldwide)
I hope my prognostications are not true, but only time will tell. I suggest that unless you tour the factory and see what actually is going on there, it is impossible to gauge the under utilization of a very large manufacturing plant. I think at one time the factory had many, many more workers then they do now.
Here are some facts:
1 Steinway Place, Astoria is actually owned by the New York City Industrial Development Agency. S&S has the property in a PILOT Program (Payment in Lieu of Taxes), a form of industrial incentive for NYC manufactures. The assessed value of the property is $25,500,000.00. To mitigate the real estate taxes on the property, the deed to the property has been transferred to the NYCIDA, which is tax exempt. Without the PILOT program, the annual real estate tax bill of the plant would be $2.5 million. Under the PILOT program, it is reduced to $250.000.00. Under the normal terms of a PILOT, at the end of the PILOT, the deed to the property reverts back to the original owner.
Under the terms of the PILOT that S&S has agreed to, there were supposed to retain 616 jobs, and create 89 new jobs. As per the 2012 annual report, they only show 383 jobs, a net loss of 233 jobs. The PILOT went into effect 1999, and is scheduled to expire in 2026. However, if they do not maintain the jobs they agreed to, they could lose the PILOT deal, which would result in their real estate taxes going up ten fold.
If S&S continues to reduce their payroll, they face the good chance that they would lose their PILOT. If that happens, I bet dollars to donuts that they are out of there!
Does anyone know actually how many people are currently employed at S&S in NYC?
Just a few dozen yards from Steinway Hall is 57 West 57th Street, a building not yet complete but already notorious: catering to billionaires, this building is already sold out, and promises to be not only the tallest apartment building in NYC, but the most expensive apartment building in the world, with individual apartments reportedly selling for up to $90 million.
In such a neighborhood, Steinway property is hot merchandise in the real estate market. Very hot. Whether the building remains standing as is or is replaced by another condominium expressly for the ruling class remains to be seen. Living in walking distance from Steinway at 57th Street, I will miss it on a sentimental level - it was, after all, the meeting place for every pianist of distinction for many decades, from Paderewski to Rachmaninoff to Horowitz to whomever your favorite today may be. The place has karma big time.
I remember when McGraw-Hill sold one of their major buildings (the one on Sixth Ave. I believe) because they couldn't pass the opportunity to make big money on the sale. Then they took long term favorable leases on the space they still needed.
I agree, you can feel the presence of great pianist in the 57th Street building.
My Keyboards: Estonia L-190, Roland RD88, Yamaha P-80, Bilhorn Telescope Organ c 1880, Antique Pump Organ, 1850 concertina, 3 other digital pianos ------------------------- My original piece on BandCamp: https://frankbaxtermrpianoworld.bandcamp.com/releases
Me banging out some tunes in the Estonia piano booth at the NAMM show...
I hope my prognostications are not true, but only time will tell. I suggest that unless you tour the factory and see what actually is going on there, it is impossible to gauge the under utilization of a very large manufacturing plant. I think at one time the factory had many, many more workers then they do now.
Here are some facts:
1 Steinway Place, Astoria is actually owned by the New York City Industrial Development Agency. S&S has the property in a PILOT Program (Payment in Lieu of Taxes), a form of industrial incentive for NYC manufactures. The assessed value of the property is $25,500,000.00. To mitigate the real estate taxes on the property, the deed to the property has been transferred to the NYCIDA, which is tax exempt. Without the PILOT program, the annual real estate tax bill of the plant would be $2.5 million. Under the PILOT program, it is reduced to $250.000.00. Under the normal terms of a PILOT, at the end of the PILOT, the deed to the property reverts back to the original owner.
Under the terms of the PILOT that S&S has agreed to, there were supposed to retain 616 jobs, and create 89 new jobs. As per the 2012 annual report, they only show 383 jobs, a net loss of 233 jobs. The PILOT went into effect 1999, and is scheduled to expire in 2026. However, if they do not maintain the jobs they agreed to, they could lose the PILOT deal, which would result in their real estate taxes going up ten fold.
If S&S continues to reduce their payroll, they face the good chance that they would lose their PILOT. If that happens, I bet dollars to donuts that they are out of there!
Does anyone know actually how many people are currently employed at S&S in NYC?
Despite your disclaimer, you seem very happy to make dire predictions about Steinway. As if you couldn't care less and are more interested in showing your ability to gauge the economic future of the company.
Pinaoloverus, I don't think I have a monopoly of making predictions on here. I didn't know I needed your permission to express an opinion on here - my bad. Is it because you consider my prediction "dire" that makes it impermissible? Is it merely because you decided you don't like my opinion that makes it taboo? Please let me know how you acquired the special right to express an opinion, so someday I can aspire to be like you, and permitted to opine on here and deride those who I disagree with.
I know many who are as devoted to S&S as I am, but I know no one more devoted. I am not happy at all about my prediction, and I hope I am wrong. My hopes and feelings doesn't change facts. Public opinion can change corporate action, and providing FACTS on here can only help shape people's opinions if such people are designed intelligently enough to consider all the facts.
I do not have any special ability to "gauge the future of the company," just some basic internet research that anyone can do.
Pianoloverus, to paraphrase another esteemed member on here, it is as if you couldn't care less and are more interested in showing your ability to make snide remarks instead of making meaningful contributions to a discussion.
Pinaoloverus, I don't think I have a monopoly of making predictions on here. I didn't know I needed your permission to express an opinion on here - my bad.
You don't need my permission. I was just commenting on what seems like, based on the content and tone of several of the posts you made on this thread, your lack of concern about Steinway and greater concern about your predictive abilities about their future. That's the strong impression your posts gave to me.
My Keyboards: Estonia L-190, Roland RD88, Yamaha P-80, Bilhorn Telescope Organ c 1880, Antique Pump Organ, 1850 concertina, 3 other digital pianos ------------------------- My original piece on BandCamp: https://frankbaxtermrpianoworld.bandcamp.com/releases
Me banging out some tunes in the Estonia piano booth at the NAMM show...
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