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#1987367 - 11/16/12 09:46 AM The Beginning of the End?  
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Silverwood Pianos Offline
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Dan Silverwood
www.silverwoodpianos.com
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"If you think it's expensive to hire a professional to do the job, wait until you hire an amateur."
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#1987371 - 11/16/12 10:12 AM Re: The Beginning of the End? [Re: Silverwood Pianos]  
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Zeno Wood Offline
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Holy cow!

On the other hand, they had sold it before, and bought it again about 15 years ago. Maybe they'll just rent it, as before, and the money held in escrow is akin to a deposit.


Zeno Wood, Piano Technician
Brooklyn College
#1987381 - 11/16/12 10:37 AM Re: The Beginning of the End? [Re: Silverwood Pianos]  
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Grotriman Offline
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Do you really think they can sell enough pianos at that location to pay the rent? Evidently they're holding a mortgage for over $100 million. This means a monthly payment of over $100,000.00 for the mortgage at least. Add in the overhead of the half dozen people, heat, A/C, electric and tuning - and you are talking about another $150K per month. You'd have to sell a lot of pianos out of this location to justify that kind of expense. Assuming a 50% margin you are talking about more than $500,000 worth of pianos (40?) per month just to break even.


Regards,

Grotriman
#1987409 - 11/16/12 11:40 AM Re: The Beginning of the End? [Re: Silverwood Pianos]  
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Silverwood Pianos Offline
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When Samick Corp. purchased an interest in Steinway some years back it was my understanding this gave Steinway Corp about 50 million in cash that was used to pay down debt.

A company that uses a capital injection for capital expenditures such as new equipment or upgrades to infrastructure is a good thing.
A company that uses capital to stay afloat is not an indication of longevity.


Dan Silverwood
www.silverwoodpianos.com
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"If you think it's expensive to hire a professional to do the job, wait until you hire an amateur."
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#1987552 - 11/16/12 06:10 PM Re: The Beginning of the End? [Re: Silverwood Pianos]  
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I certainly hope not. Steinway definitely isn't my cup of tea most of the time, but the loss of such an iconic American brand would just be a huge embarrassment for this country.

#1987560 - 11/16/12 06:24 PM Re: The Beginning of the End? [Re: Silverwood Pianos]  
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Emmery Offline
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Niagara Region, On. Canada
Es gibt immer Hamburg Steinway.


Piano Technician
George Brown College /85
Niagara Region
#1987601 - 11/16/12 08:59 PM Re: The Beginning of the End? [Re: Emmery]  
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Silverwood Pianos Offline
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Originally Posted by Emmery
Es gibt immer Hamburg Steinway.



Es ist in der Tat.


Dan Silverwood
www.silverwoodpianos.com
http://silverwoodpianos.blogspot.com/
http://www.facebook.com/SilverwoodPianosDotCom
"If you think it's expensive to hire a professional to do the job, wait until you hire an amateur."
#1987605 - 11/16/12 09:16 PM Re: The Beginning of the End? [Re: Silverwood Pianos]  
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Supply Offline
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Steinway is Steinway. NY and Hamburg are part of the same enterprise.

#1987644 - 11/16/12 11:43 PM Re: The Beginning of the End? [Re: Silverwood Pianos]  
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victor kam Offline
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Does that mean Steinway will have to relocate?



vk
NY Steinway D 423118 (rebuilt by Roy Peters, OH)
Yamaha UX 2499771; Casio PX-3 keyboard
#1987751 - 11/17/12 10:46 AM Re: The Beginning of the End? [Re: Grotriman]  
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malkin Offline
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*sigh* Salt Lake City
Originally Posted by Grotriman
Do you really think they can sell enough pianos at that location to pay the rent? ...


Maybe they will start selling pianos on Amazon.
wink


Having power is not nearly as important as what you choose to do with it.
– Roald Dahl

#1987754 - 11/17/12 10:51 AM Re: The Beginning of the End? [Re: Silverwood Pianos]  
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Jerry Groot RPT Offline
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Maybe they will turn around and just lease the place instead? Might be less expensive for them? Or, lease a smaller portion of it.


Jerry Groot RPT
Piano Technicians Guild
Grand Rapids, Michigan
www.grootpiano.com

We love to play BF2.
#1987762 - 11/17/12 11:42 AM Re: The Beginning of the End? [Re: Silverwood Pianos]  
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In the CBS era many properties were sold to get cash.
Bechstein did the same in Berlin. Sold the original factory area to the town of Berlin.
Of course, it might be a sign of cqash flow problems.

#1987778 - 11/17/12 12:28 PM Re: The Beginning of the End? [Re: Jerry Groot RPT]  
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ando Online content
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Originally Posted by Jerry Groot RPT
Maybe they will turn around and just lease the place instead? Might be less expensive for them? Or, lease a smaller portion of it.


I don't understand why it would be so expensive to operate in a building you already own. Why would it be any cheaper to lease it? Maybe it's different in NY, but in Australia if you already own a building, you aren't up for too many more expenses and in the long run it can be very beneficial to have a stable location you can't be evicted from. Forced relocation can be very expensive. Do you have some kind of heavy land/building tax in NY or something?

#1987789 - 11/17/12 01:03 PM Re: The Beginning of the End? [Re: Silverwood Pianos]  
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Jerry Groot RPT Offline
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Grand Rapids Michigan
I don't know. Just a thought. Less expenses pertaining to upkeep maybe?


Jerry Groot RPT
Piano Technicians Guild
Grand Rapids, Michigan
www.grootpiano.com

We love to play BF2.
#1987793 - 11/17/12 01:11 PM Re: The Beginning of the End? [Re: Silverwood Pianos]  
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Ralph Offline
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Delaware (slower/lower)
It's my understanding that the Steinway family used to live there as their primary residence in addition to using it as a showroom. It really is disapointing to hear that landmark will no longer be part of Steinway.


Do or do not. There is no try.
#1987811 - 11/17/12 02:04 PM Re: The Beginning of the End? [Re: Silverwood Pianos]  
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rysowers Offline
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Zeno is right - this has happened before. It's a lot of money to have tied up in a retail location that competes with the company's dealers.

I think if there is a REAL beginning of the end, its when they added Billy Joel to the room where some of the immortal pianists are displayed. Mozart, Chopin, Liszt, Rachmaninoff, and...Billy Joel!


Ryan Sowers,
Pianova Piano Service
Olympia, WA
www.pianova.net
#1987815 - 11/17/12 02:07 PM Re: The Beginning of the End? [Re: Silverwood Pianos]  
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Jerry Groot RPT Offline
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http://www.pianoworld.com/forum/ubbthreads.php/topics/1987813/1.html

Go on page one to see what Bob Snyder has to say about it.


Jerry Groot RPT
Piano Technicians Guild
Grand Rapids, Michigan
www.grootpiano.com

We love to play BF2.
#1987835 - 11/17/12 03:09 PM Re: The Beginning of the End? [Re: Ralph]  
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pianoloverus Online content
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Originally Posted by Ralph
It's my understanding that the Steinway family used to live there as their primary residence in addition to using it as a showroom.
Not correct to my knowledge.

#1987909 - 11/17/12 06:53 PM Re: The Beginning of the End? [Re: Silverwood Pianos]  
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Supply Offline
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Vancouver Island, BC, Canada
In the other tread, one expert noted:
Quote
My guess is the the realestate value of Steinway Hall exceeded the advantages Steinway could realize staying in that location.
I can imagine this to be true. And, it may also hold true for the Steinway factory property in Astoria at some point. I have been told that the real $ value of the factory lies in the land.

Quite a few years ago Bösendorfer moved production out of downtown Vienna to a sleepy town almost an hour's drive away, and retained a much smaller downtown location where the final voicing etc was done. This made a lot of economic sense, no doubt, and they could still profess to be based in the capital city. Bechstein did the exact same, benefiting from huge federal incentives to move production into a far eastern backwater near the Polish border, while maintaining a prestigious address in Berlin. Maybe S&S will eventually do the same?

#1987921 - 11/17/12 07:37 PM Re: The Beginning of the End? [Re: rysowers]  
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David Jenson Offline
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Maine
Originally Posted by rysowers
I think if there is a REAL beginning of the end, its when they added Billy Joel to the room where some of the immortal pianists are displayed. Mozart, Chopin, Liszt, Rachmaninoff, and...Billy Joel!
Well, he IS "The Piano Man". 'Right? laugh


David L. Jenson
Tuning - Repairs - Refurbishing
Jenson's Piano Service
-----
#1987981 - 11/17/12 11:33 PM Re: The Beginning of the End? [Re: Silverwood Pianos]  
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Bob Offline
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Nope, the beginning to the end was Billy Joel's use of a digital piano last time I saw him... frown

I believe the Steinway family lived in a house near the factory, which still stands, occupied by regular folks!




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