Piano World Home Page Forums Our Most Popular Forums Piano Tuner-Technicians Forum Aural versus electronic tuning

@Brendan, I cannot say how you tune but be persuaded that if your customers are happy you are doing well.

AT worst unisons that are a tad too straight anc closed will open and warm themselves because the piano will be played, so it may only be a temporary situation. (it may depend how the energy is driven from the start, but when aiming for maximum cleanness and maximum tone immediately, the evolving in time may go the good direction in my opinion)

Emmery, I am perfectly sure I aim for "clean" unison (I dont allow any beat even very slow to be noticed (particularly in the treble)

What I use most is an "energy sensor" that helps me to refine what I hear.

That way I can use what I feel thru the tuning lever, thru my fingers, my body, etc.

This gives the impression that unisons (at last) can be tuned "without listening" , because the energy is showing its quality and quantity in time in regard of your sensations of the hammer bumping on the strings. (that is amix, the ear came last, eventually)
It is also so much less tiring, and I believe I can tune unisons while listening the radio (with one ear) - not in noise, but in a quiet environment .
It is also possible , as showed me Alfredo, to focus more on the bending/twist of the tuning pin, than on the wire (as the job on the wire is done with the ears, and if you are slow enough to move the wire, you have the impression of absolute control on tone, once the twist/untwist motion of the pin is well in the body.

Tone wise it is as easy as :

Taking the energy provided by the hammer/finger (in the bass for instance light bumps of the hammer help the ear to focus on the good part of tone to work from)

have that energy rule/straighten the most thick part of the spectra the sooner possible in time.

focus on the partials,and decide how much coupling you allow for the 2nd 3d partial, then have it show up in the mix ass soon as possible.

Chase for false beats

The coupling energy, at any level, kill part of the differences in spectra (between strings) , but I believe we tend to kill more than necessary, the pitch of the partials very rarely can be coupled really for all partials plus fundamental, only on low ih Instruments as Faziolis or other with similar clear tone a little straight, tending toward 2nd partial and up more than fundamental.

The discrepancies between strings spectra is what allows the tone to be at the same time clean and stable

When tuning very slowly, the "window" of usable unison is really noticed and it is often surprising to discover how large it is. (similarly as for octaves, there is some room that allows to favor fundamental and strength of attack, or the more high partials.)
The energy taken from one goes toward the other, but a strong fundamental tend to drive the spectra , sort of adbsorbing the partials in its energy. that gives a strong but somehow "square" tone that can be useful, but tend to moan at Forte level,

SO we are anyway obliged to listen to the "tail" of the tone, if not, tuning unisons could be done very fast, as soon as the optimal energy level is noticed at the wanted moment after attack.

When I was less experimented, I noticed that listening to recordings I like helped me a lot, I had the tone in my ears and tuning with some imagination seem to sound always better than tuning in regard of an abstract scheme (unison wise, but the same can be said for 3ds, 4,5th etc..

The most important thing is to be absolutely confident in the pin manipulation, then every pin gives you some bonus and allow to cheat a bit, so in case of trouble you can use that.

Nethertheless, an identical bending/setting of each pin allows for the most strong and homogenous tone, that is why this is the primarly goal, to me... clean AND strong, and they go together, what we do in concert tuning (where the piano is regularely yet in tune when we begin) is to refresh the wire termination points when we manipulates the hammer to "warm" the tone.

Indeed an ETD would show "horrible" few tenths of cts, eventually, but, because I measured string by string the tuning of the most demanded tuner here (the one asked by the most prestigious musicians when they travel to Paris, to simplify) and I find extremes openings, so the tone is very brilliant, I know that compared with my unisons, they are really quiet and minimally opened (and I try to use the piano's own voice for its brilliancy,(sparkle) only a very little is added)

Unfortunately we are obliged to use some compromizing (as tempering and octaves stretch) if not we could allow the instrument to sing by itself all the harmonic content it have, but the justness would be unaccepted... But we can tune in a way where a note played is putting many others in motion (damped or not)

As a musician, I would admit I prefer an "inspired" tuning where the tuner follows an idea about consonance or his ears, to a "perfect" tuning following a theoretical scheme but lessening the reactions from the piano to a small part of the scale.

When tuning in high treble, we play really very fast repeatedly, as 6 times a second or more, so the energy (dissipates very fast) that raise when coupling is noticed.
the same process apply all along the keyboard, as one important part of the tone. When playing the finger may have access to that energy, that is how the pianist can manipulate the tone.
If it is not "tuned" of it it dissipate for coupling more the partials and the fundamental, the pianist have less tools at hand to manipulate the tone.

We can make a perfectly tuned piano that miss that discrete part, then the attack of the tone feels like an electrical shock if the hammers are dense, or damped,, the energy of the attack does not give the foundation for something.

I trained hard to tune that way, anticipating the drift of each string, even before concerts, then I find my pin more firmly set after the piano have played.

I guess I understand what you are talking about too, and it relates to energy as well, you leave the energy in a condition where you feel that it cannot be less good in the future.

But I noticed it is possible to tune hoping for long term, what helps is the bending of the pin and the stress equilibrium between the pin and the wire .

In concert I believe we tend to leave a little extra so a too strong stroke will use it without lowering the unison audibly (one of my mentors told me that a too high strings will be less noticed than the opposite, in case the equilibrium is broke (the "node" is "untied" but the tension raise)

When I leave an unison I feel it is strong in that direction : if played strong no drift is expected, eventually a little more strong pin setting, so what I work is really the evening between the torque of the pin and the one of the wire...

Here is a piano tuned for immediateness, that favor the attack, but the energy is like self crucnched for the sustain (I hear that more in the treble) :

http://youtu.be/_kER-kIOPQ8

When playing stronger, only the attack take the energy, the rest of the tone does not lenghten, on the contrary it sound like adbsorbed in a black hole... the piano can be in cause as well indeed

This piano sounds very Bright... Harsh even maybe? Or is that just Jazz!

Jazz indeed, also that could be apiano regulated with a large drop , raise the impact tone.

That kind of tuning is adapted to the music played anyway, but if some energy was left availeable for the thickening of the tone the piano would have more dynamics in my opinion.

it may be done by tuning a few miliseconds later after the inital "crak" , my mentor showed me how the ton e semm to go along the wire at fast speed then develop in the room (while a closed tone tend to go straight up to the ceiling)

imagination indeed...

LOL! Imagine!