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Thanks Andy.

Here are 2 more pieces I recorded after the Respighi. For these, I used the Rode NT5's. EBVT III brings out lots of colors in the music.

"Barberini's Minuet" by Harold Bauer, from a 1920's Welte-Mignon Piano Roll, Live-Performance LX CD, played by Katherine Bacon.
http://www.box.net/shared/u247vtbd16


"Caprice in A Minor" by Paganini-Liszt, also from the same CD, played by Katherine Bacon, from a 1920's Welte-Mignon Piano Roll. http://www.box.net/shared/eevp5al4n2


As they say in German, "Uben, Uben, Uben".....and practice makes perfect, usually. Stability is what I have to practice.

Looks like everyone was having a great time. Thanks for sharing the images and the recordings!

Glen

I saw your note, Andy. Glad I did or I would have missed this posting.

Though I don't hear the huge difference that you do between ET and EBVT III, I still very much enjoyed what I heard. Very nice and clean.


Now that would be an intriguing exercise. Probably not gonna happen, unless someone who could do EBVT III lived in the D/FW area and I were willing to yank my piano away from my tech. :-)

GP:

Re: "Barberini's Minuet"--man, THAT'S EBVT III! It really speaks it! Perhaps the mics were placed closer than the Caprice (which is very nice, btw... but the piano is farther away?)? Whatever the case, the Minuet really sparkles. Is it in F? (I'm trying, Mark R.! )

ChrisKeys:
What I want to say is, playing in EBVT III is totally different than listening to it. And hearing it live is totally different than hearing a recording of it. Recordings, no matter how good they might be made, and playback equipment, as good as it might be, limit the sound. I am sure you are up on that.

Nevertheless, GP, I am interested in how you would answer this: as true as your recordings are--and they are VERY VERY true, is that not the case? Do you agree that "live" is different? I am sure there are all sorts of technical acoustic reasons why this is...

So, Chris, I really hope you get a chance to try it, some day! It is a real treat!

--Andy

Well, your try was successful! Indeed it's in F.

Grandpianoman: I love the view from your music room... wow.

Thanks GPM. You are doing MUCH better at unison's! I enjoyed the songs a great deal. Bill was right, you can do it!

You're welcome Jerry, and thanks for the encouragement! The issue for me is stability. Bill showed me what I had to do, and going forward will try to implement his suggestions!

More music is coming as I get to it.

I wish I had taken more videos......here is Gregg at the M&H playing several Grieg pieces. I misplaced the list of titles..if someone knows the titles, please let me know.

What beautiful sounds.......these are great examples of how EBVT III can bring a myriad of colors and feelings to the music. Thanks for your great work Gregg!

Kudos to Bill for his excellent tuning!

1. Grieg on the Mason&Hamlin RBB 1 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jPG7DCEWW5I

2. Greig on the Mason&Hamlin RBB 2 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dPKDWkUFsRw

Here is an example of some 1920's music in EBVT III. This was recorded during the tune-a-thon. Fun stuff!

Zez Confrey's "Kitten on the Keys" played here by Herbert Clair on the Ampico. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZgOKNlyWoJg

The first is Grieg: Notturno Opus 54, No. 4. The second had the title, "Norwegian...". I can't remember whether it was a dance or song but I think this may be where you confused what Patrick had played (the Swedish folk song) as "Norwegian".

I am up very early this morning to go to Oshkosh, WI to the annual air show where there are reportedly more take offs and landings than at any other airport during the event.

http://www.airventure.org/

I am going to meet my best friend from college whom I had last seen in Paris, France in June of 1976. He has been a pilot for Air France for over 30 years. I had known him when I was taking my first French courses in college and he was in the USA to learn English. I had spent my senior year in Aix-en-Provence, France and was on my way back to the USA when I last saw him. I moved to Madison, WI in August of 1976.

I will give him a CD of Mussorgsky's "Pictures at an Exhibition".

Sounds like a great time Bill! How exciting to meet someone you haven't seen in 30 years!

Finally was able to upload Patrick's improv at the M&Hamlin. YouTube was doing something strange to it every time I tried to upload it in the last 4-5 days.

This was the very first thing we recorded the night Bill and Patrick arrived from Las Vegas, and right after Bill finished tuning it for the first time. You can hear Bill comment at the beginning that some of the unisons already needed to be cleaned up. Never the less...a good example how even in D flat, EBVT III sounds great.

Patrick, I could sit and listen to you "improvise" all day long!

http://www.youtube.com/user/AmpicoGPM#p/a/u/0/s1E3W6YuMyI

"Body and Soul" - indeed!

Interesting choice of piece, seeing that it alternates between Db and D major! The Dave Brubeck quartet also played a rendition that I love - I have it on the "Live from the USA / Live from the UK" double album. Nice!

Now, I wonder, which of the two keys is the body, and which is the soul?

That is the first melody that came to mind for me because I had often been told that it would not work in anything but ET. Of course, I knew that was not true. What you hear is a purely aural tuning since my ETD had gone on the blink, inoperable. I could not use the program for this piano which I had stored.

You hear me make the comment that I really needed the ETD to stabilize the unisons. I usually don't use an ETD for the unisons in ordinary work but for the highest level of concert and recording work, I need it to prove that the unison has not drifted in pitch, not even 1/10 cent from where I have determined it should be. This piano is particularly difficult to keep stable.

GP has often asked me why it is so difficult and if there is something "wrong" with it. First, there is nothing "wrong" with it. Of the many types of pianos I tune, I find that Yamaha and Kawai pianos are easy. They tune like "butter". They do what I tell them to do with ease and hold it predictably. They have tuning pin bushings and there is no steep angle from the agraffe or capo bar to the tuning pin. The tuning pin torque is usually not very high. The pin moves easily and the string renders predictably and easily as well. Recently, I tuned a new "Remington" grand (which appeared to have been made by Young Chang). I don't think I have ever tuned a grand so easily and quickly.

A Steinway and this Mason & Hamlin however are in a different league. A novice tuner would make a real mess of it, to be sure, especially if an aural tuning were attempted by someone with limited experience and skill. The tuning pins have no bushings and there is a lot of resistance in the pressure material between the speaking length termination points and the tuning pins. The tuning pins are extremely tight because of the new Falconwood pinblock material.

Although I use an impact type technique to raise the pitch of a string because I believe that it minimizes any twisting of the tuning pin, there is no real way to avoid that. I must use a combination if impact and slow manipulation of the pin in order to stabilize it. While the pianos described above cooperate easily, this piano requires complex movements and far more time to set each pin precisely.

While I can and often have "flown" through a Yamaha or Kawai grand in 30 to 45 minutes for a public performance and had it hold beautifully, this piano will not accept such technique. It requires long and very careful work and will go sharp and flat with the very slightest environmental change.

On the positive side, this piano will begin to cooperate like one of the above in perhaps 10 years. It will get to a point where it is "broken in" and will do what it is commanded to do after it quits resisting. In 50 years, it will still be holding up well and can be tuned with ease while any of the Asian pianos will need restoration.

So, it is a credit to GP that he has done as well as he has with it. It really does take a person with superior skills to tune this piano well.

I asked this question before, and didn't get an answer yet, but obviously, since I won't let it drop, it is important to me. So please forgive me for bugging you about it. It is addressed to Bill, Patrick and GP (and esp. Gregg, if he is a reader and poster here...)

We have read some of Patrick's comments about playing/performing in EBVT III. Bill, how was Gregg introduced to EBVT III? Bill, Patrick, GP, what were his comments about playing/performing using the temperament?

Thanks!
--Andy

Bill, no wonder it takes me longer to tune this piano!

When Bill was here, he used a tuning lever from Joe Goss of Mother Goose Tools. I had never seen a lever like that. I tried it and liked the feel, and it seemed to be easier to manipulate the pins.

I ordered the lever last week, and it arrived today. I am very impressed with it. Very easy to tune with, and an excellent response/feel between the lever and the pins. I can set the unisons much faster. It's the #110 "Plateau" lever complete, 20 degrees, and a #3 "Sole" tip. It has a "Lignum Vitae" knob, which is a very dense and rare wood, and has a great feel to it. All in all, a very high quality product! http://www.mothergoosetools.com/tuning_hammers/index.shtml

All this time I had been using a #2 tip!?....which I see now was wrong....Bill pointed that out...the #2 tip was not getting as far down on the pins as was possible. The pins are a german import,#2ot size. This could explain some of my instability in setting the pins, although Bill has said even he finds it more difficult to tune than other pianos.

I have already touched up my first EBVT III tuning with it, and it was a breeze to do!

Any other tuners out there that use this lever, and if so, what are your impressions?

Hi Andy,

Sorry, must have missed your original question.

I believe Gregg does not use a computer. From what I remember, he was very pleased with the EBVT III and how it sounded on the M&H RBB. He also thought the timber/sound of the M&H was excellent.

This has been discussed before...I think EBVT III or any temperament for that matter, influences the way one plays a piece.

Joe Goss called me up one day and got right to the point: "I'd like to make you a tuning hammer". He said if I didn't like it, I could send it back. Well, I did like it and I wouldn't use any other.

Andy, I am sorry if I have been a bit remiss in responding to some of your messages. A few messages mysteriously disappeared from my e-mail. I seem to find all that I can do these days.

I met Gregg about 15 years ago when I was assigned to tune a piano for him when he was giving a going away recital just before he was headed off to grad school at Rice University in Houston. He is a graduate in piano performance from Oberlin University in Ohio. He received a Masters degree from Rice in choral conducting. He works now as a free lance pianist and organist. He took time away from his regular job as a church organist to fly to Portland.

Gregg had been introduced to non-equal temperaments by my colleague here in Madison (whose name I won't mention on here because it gets into Google and he does not participate here). He was, however one of the instructors at the last convention and taught about the wonders of the 1/7 comma meantone temperament which he uses nearly exclusively. Gregg has long been sensitive to whichever piano he performs upon and plays according to the feedback he gets from it.

Gregg does not own a computer but occasionally goes to a library to use one when he needs to. Therefore, he does not and would not participate on this forum. He shies away from the use of most modern technology but is amazingly adept at using it when he does. Only recently did he get a cellphone which he has off most of the time. "Anybody who really wants to reach me will leave a message", he says. "I don't have nor respond to emergencies". He did find his cellphone useful for scheduling as opposed to notes written on scraps of paper or cocktail napkins.

I long ago rejected the "neutral pallet" concept for piano tuning. To me, that only means providing a constrictive pallet with which the pianist can do little more than operate the keys.

Thanks for the explanation Bill. It makes total sense. It's something I knew but, completely forgot about. I would like to see Del's design some time. It HAS to be better!!

Steinway's with F-2 as the lowest tenor note tune a little bit crappy in that area too and also tend to drift due to the same reasons you mentioned. Although, it is "better" -usually- in that area, it is iffy much of the time too. That can be just as frustrating of an area to tune sometimes.

Wouldn't you think that instead of cutting corners on their pianos like this GH1 B for example, because we all know these companies KNOW THIS, that they would increase the quality just a little to avoid this troubled area? I mean, after all, it is THEIR reputation at stake here along with ours and if we encounter this type of thing, we tend not to recommend the piano. That particular model is one that I will not recommend buying just for that one reason alone.

OK, I don't want to take GPM's thread off topic to far so, carry on. I'm leaving again for 5 days so, I'll see you turds when I return! hahaha! Be GOOD now, ya hear???

That is why if you examine the strike ratio, you will find that many take care to have the 1/8 ratio (optimal) just in that region, while it will be 1/7 in the basses and up to 1/10 (!) at a440 level on smaller pianos. Why do they keep that break position I dont know, there are probably reasons...

For the raising of the strings length above a 440 it may well relate to the human ear, needing a richer partial content in that area to correctly juge the pitch. ALso it allow for more tension, hence a more stressed soundboard, which then will have a raised resonant frequency and behave as it it was lighter (while being stiffer in reality).

OK I am out ... !