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#1987019 - 11/15/12 11:20 AM Re: Convince us NOT to buy the Shigeru [Re: ando]  
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Peter K. Mose Offline
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Originally Posted by ando
There are times when your instincts tell you, "yes, this is the one!". I think it's important to listen to your instincts sometimes. I had the impression from the OP that the Shigeru was exactly this kind of moment.


Ando - who sounds like my mom - makes a very good point, despite my earlier post. One can get overly obsessive about a big decision. There's a romance to all of this as well. (But it would still be nice to learn about that Steinway.)


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#1987037 - 11/15/12 12:01 PM Re: Convince us NOT to buy the Shigeru [Re: LynnieGC]  
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Wow! Thank you all so much!

Regarding the relationship with the dealer. With a school, the importance of the relationship with the dealer during the fundraising process cannot be ignored and unfortunately, neither can the politics (partly why we don't have unlimited options for who we can buy the piano from) :-) The dealer for the Shigeru is certainly prepared to provide the most support for us.

All the bids include the best cover and a dolly for proper moving. We do have a piano storage room and also included a humidifier in our bid request. We have consulted with several piano technicians and artists in our area and they advised us on what to request and have given us some estimates of maintenance costs so we're not completely in the dark on that front.

Sadly we can't put the three pianos next to each other on the stage and listen...nor can we travel by plane, etc. to check out some of the other pianos available.

However, I will speak to my colleagues about looking at Mason and Hamlin, as I agree American made would speak to our potential sponsors and the community.

Thank you again everyone for your advice! It's great to hear from so many!

#1987125 - 11/15/12 03:41 PM Re: Convince us NOT to buy the Shigeru [Re: Withindale]  
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Originally Posted by Withindale
Two good reasons to buy a Mason & Hamlin are its WNG action and patriotism.

If everyone in your position were to follow the advice in this thread then American piano manufacturing will go bust.


This is really quite humorous if you think about it.

#1987214 - 11/15/12 08:14 PM Re: Convince us NOT to buy the Shigeru [Re: LynnieGC]  
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BTW

Looks like another fine institution recently chose a Shigeru SK7

http://www.facebook.com/photo.php?f...8.141433402569516&type=1&theater




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#1987322 - 11/16/12 05:03 AM Re: Convince us NOT to buy the Shigeru [Re: LynnieGC]  
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Originally Posted by LynnieGC

With a school, the importance of the relationship with the dealer during the fundraising process cannot be ignored and unfortunately, neither can the politics (partly why we don't have unlimited options for who we can buy the piano from) :-) The dealer for the Shigeru is certainly prepared to provide the most support for us.


Can a couple of our PW posters more familiar with US public school culture either translate or better explain these two quoted sentences? They leave me scratching my head.

If we are dealing here with a large high school with a performing arts center and a large music department, it seems we are dealing with a school in a large metropolitan area (probably over 1 million inhabitants) offering several piano dealers to choose from. Clearly there are at least 3 dealers - Steinway, Yamaha, and Kawai - so this is not a small town of 10,000 people, where everybody knows everybody, and everybody shops at McGillicuddy's Pianos & Kazoos (est. 1912).

Two piano dealers will be disappointed after this purchase decision in any case. Therefore why not widen the decision-making to embrace more dealers? Why not include private sales of high-end used pianos? For that matter, why *not* be willing to look further afield? Don't the Boosters want the best piano for the kids?

Does the second quoted sentence mean: "The Shigeru folks will throw in free Kawai t-shirts for our choir?" Or, "The Shigeru folks are promising to service our new seven-foot piano for free for the next ten years, provided we promise to buy all future upright or digital pianos from them"?




#1987555 - 11/16/12 06:12 PM Re: Convince us NOT to buy the Shigeru [Re: LynnieGC]  
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As someone who owns both an S&S B and an SK7 I'll chime in with some thoughts. I've just concluded an exhaustive hunt that ended up with the addition of the SK7 and I've had a chance to play many of the representative samples mentioned in this thread that are potential targets for you. Of course all pianos are different so the comments about playing as many pianos that are in budget and accessible is still the best advise.

For your purposes, assuming that the SK7 available to you is at all like mine, I would not attempt to change your first inclination. My SK7 projects like many concert grands and has many very fine qualities. I love my B, but if I were going to put one in any reasonably large performance setting the SK7 would win hands down. Also in comparison to most of the other pianos I considered. I had the chance to play and consider a brand new 9' Estonia (which would likely fit your budget), but it paled in comparison. I didn't get a chance to try the new 7'4" Estonia, but from the range of models I did try they didn't seem to have the power to project in a concert setting. I can appreciate the appeal for a home, but I'd question them for the OPs requirements.

I would agree with those that have suggested a look at the M&H BB. It's certainly an option and the right price point. I played a few and they had immediate appeal - though I grew tired of their sound after a while. Fun to date - didn't quite want to settle down :-)
Another possibility for the group that was pointing to European possibilities would be a Schimmel K213 if that was available as an option. It was a contender in my evaluations and it had power, colour and tone that might work. It didn't quite make it for me - I couldn't get over the rather poor pedal operations of the Schimmels and the refinement of the SK7 action eventually won out.

While there are some other options - I don't think anyone would have a problem with your decision to purchase the SK7 assuming you have done your due diligence from the financial side. You can't be too careful these days if you're spending public funds.

#1990542 - 11/25/12 01:57 AM Re: Convince us NOT to buy the Shigeru [Re: LynnieGC]  
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I agree with the post above mine . Try a schimmel 7 foot and compare.
Myself and 2 other pianists went through the Kawai models from the rx3 to rx 6, and the shiguru kawai 6 foot to 7 foot models. Then played the Schimmel model below the 7 foot, then the 7 foot model and thats where we stayed. These pianos were all in the same showroom all in a line so it was easy to just keep moving on down one after another for comparison. The action on the 7 foot schimmel was very consistant and just felt right from the first chords I played. We didnt play chop sticks on these pianos either, we played chopin polonaises, etudes,waltzes, the rachmaninoff piano concertos with cadenza etc.. So they were put through their paces. On the schimmel going up the length of the keyboard on a difficult run was much easier and fluid. Complex chords in the bass resolved clearer and with more resonance. The Schimmel I believe was even less money than the shigeru. So thats my experience. In the end though its your preference.Everyone is different. Good luck on your search.

#1990746 - 11/25/12 04:45 PM Re: Convince us NOT to buy the Shigeru [Re: LynnieGC]  
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Just buy the Estonia They sound prettier to me...

#1990748 - 11/25/12 04:48 PM Re: Convince us NOT to buy the Shigeru [Re: LynnieGC]  
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I have tried SO many Estonias they are incredibly consistent I would just order one --

#1990752 - 11/25/12 04:54 PM Re: Convince us NOT to buy the Shigeru [Re: Wound up]  
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Originally Posted by Wound up
Just buy the Estonia They sound prettier to me...



Would YOU buy a piano simply because a stranger on the internet told you to?

Your posts on this thread are less than useful.

The OP should buy the piano THEY love, not the one YOU love.



Pianist, Composer
Disclaimer: Shigeru Kawai Artist
#1990775 - 11/25/12 06:46 PM Re: Convince us NOT to buy the Shigeru [Re: Wound up]  
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Originally Posted by Wound up
I have tried SO many Estonias they are incredibly consistent I would just order one --


I've actually found quite the opposite to be true. Although the nice one(s) I've played were quite nice in many ways.

Shigeru is one of the most consistent pianos out there. They may not all sound the same as each other, but they most definitely all perform at a very high standard.

If I were buying for a recital hall it would be one of my first choices.


Recordings of my recent solo piano and piano/keyboard trio jazz standards.


#1990812 - 11/25/12 09:27 PM Re: Convince us NOT to buy the Shigeru [Re: LynnieGC]  
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Originally Posted by LynnieGC
Wow! Thank you all so much!

... The dealer for the xxxx is certainly prepared to provide the most support for us.


Talking of support, I'd ensure that any implied - or verbal - benefits are confirmed in writing. I found at least one sales dealer recently here promised the world (well, almost) to string me along, but when the final quotation arrived, it included less than many other dealers.


Alan from Queensland, Australia (and Clara - my Grotrian Concert & Allen Organ (CF-15)).
#1990903 - 11/26/12 03:04 AM Re: Convince us NOT to buy the Shigeru [Re: LynnieGC]  
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It's incredible how many pianos are selling these days to customers "sight unseen".

There must be something about some pianos where the question of 'consistency' may in fact not be the main consideration, if at all.

Using a certain tech perhaps and maximizing the acoustics within a given environment most typically "is".

Once this is accomplished, few questions seem to be asked after.

Norbert


www.heritagepianos.com
Greater Vancouver B.C. piano dealers for : Estonia, Brodmann, Ritmuller
604-951-8642 www.eliteheritagepianos.ca Edmonton, Alta dealers for Estonia,
Brodmann 780-405-8908
#1990943 - 11/26/12 06:30 AM Re: Convince us NOT to buy the Shigeru [Re: AJF]  
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Originally Posted by AJF
Originally Posted by Wound up
Just buy the Estonia They sound prettier to me...



Would YOU buy a piano simply because a stranger on the internet told you to?

Your posts on this thread are less than useful.

The OP should buy the piano THEY love, not the one YOU love.


I Guess you missed the title of the thread....
And after much research Fazioli and Estonia are the 2 I would buy New/or newer sight unseen...

(I DID once buy an Imperial sight unseen (tech checked it out)

Keeping in your spirit -- Not sure whats right for YOU and YOUR taste, But If the orig poster asks to be convinced NOT to buy a shigeru - I give my vote to give the Estonia a serious Look --

I think my observation the MANY newer Estonias I have seen that they were all acceptable to be IS a potentially useful piece of information -- but you can say it is less than useful it's ok!

Last edited by Wound up; 11/26/12 06:42 AM.
#1990984 - 11/26/12 10:16 AM Re: Convince us NOT to buy the Shigeru [Re: LynnieGC]  
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Hi all,

I never played the Shigeru (however I played on some new mid-sized Kawai grand and I was disapoointed, don't remeber the model now), but if you want some top-class piano maybe you should also check these pianos (which I for people in America ale less knownwhat I see in this forum):
- C. Bechstein
- Petrof
- Grotrian-Steinweg
- Bluthner

Unfortunalety, the first two are the same price range as Steinway, but also the same superb quality.
I see that even in pianos popularity is often connected with marketing,
not in quality alwas (for example low popuarity of Bechstein pianos, which are the same amazing as Fazioli or S&S)

#1991174 - 11/26/12 05:38 PM Re: Convince us NOT to buy the Shigeru [Re: Norbert]  
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Originally Posted by Norbert
It's incredible how many pianos are selling these days to customers "sight unseen".

Norbert

Would you expand on your statement? What types of piano and buyer, what percentage of pianos, etc?


Ian Russell
Schiedmayer & Soehne, 1925 Model 14, 140cm
Ibach, 1905 F-IV, 235cm
#1991252 - 11/26/12 09:51 PM Re: Convince us NOT to buy the Shigeru [Re: Wound up]  
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Originally Posted by Wound up
Originally Posted by AJF
Originally Posted by Wound up
Just buy the Estonia They sound prettier to me...



Would YOU buy a piano simply because a stranger on the internet told you to?

Your posts on this thread are less than useful.

The OP should buy the piano THEY love, not the one YOU love.


I Guess you missed the title of the thread....
And after much research Fazioli and Estonia are the 2 I would buy New/or newer sight unseen...

(I DID once buy an Imperial sight unseen (tech checked it out)

Keeping in your spirit -- Not sure whats right for YOU and YOUR taste, But If the orig poster asks to be convinced NOT to buy a shigeru - I give my vote to give the Estonia a serious Look --

I think my observation the MANY newer Estonias I have seen that they were all acceptable to be IS a potentially useful piece of information -- but you can say it is less than useful it's ok!


Sorry. I guess I was a little harsh in my delivery. That being said, your posts (as I interpreted them) basically said "i love Estonias! You should just get that piano!"
Have you tried a Shigeru? Many people, myself included, would not choose an Estonia over a Shigeru. Not because Shigerus are better but because they are so different. I DID read the OP. By saying "convince us NOT to buy a Shigeru" they are actually saying 'I really WANT a Shigeru'
The OP did ask if there is anything about these pianos that they need to be warned about. And anyone who knows these pianos knows they are top notch and there is nothing about them that is less than world class. So to chime in on this thread to simply say "you should buy an Estonia!!!" to me seems pointless. It's pretty obvious that the OP wants a Shigeru.



Pianist, Composer
Disclaimer: Shigeru Kawai Artist
#1991281 - 11/27/12 12:38 AM Re: Convince us NOT to buy the Shigeru [Re: LynnieGC]  
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Norbert Offline
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Quote
We went out to obtain three bids on 7' (ish) grand pianos and visited a Steinway dealer, a Yamaha dealer, and a Kawai dealer. We absolutely fell in LOVE with the Shigeru Kawai.


In a case like this, it would only make sense to say "yes"
The OP wouldn't really need to have ask anyone.

In this context, any other brands mentioned in terms of even basic comparison must be at least same size piano.

If comparison is really what this is all about [not sure if it is..] then not just any Estonia but the 7'4 grand 225 must be the one required in the line up.

Only question is if it "is" - "should" or even "could"

There's very few of them in the country to begin with...

Norbert

Last edited by Norbert; 11/27/12 12:45 AM.

www.heritagepianos.com
Greater Vancouver B.C. piano dealers for : Estonia, Brodmann, Ritmuller
604-951-8642 www.eliteheritagepianos.ca Edmonton, Alta dealers for Estonia,
Brodmann 780-405-8908
#1992634 - 11/30/12 12:54 AM Re: Convince us NOT to buy the Shigeru [Re: LynnieGC]  
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Good Point AJF,

I was salting their doubt for sure__

Yes I have played the Shigeru nice axe!

And Norbert, I thought Sam had one in Atlanta?


After flipping a few pianos the Estonia 225 and Fazioli 183 are the ones I ended up with (I operate a recording studio and have a piano fetish..) Sadly! the 225 is in storage while we remodel -- but I do like it alot__ wish I could upgrade the 6' Fazioli to the 228 then I would be in piano Heaven and financial Hell__

We are lucky in LA to have Pierre's Fine Piano's where you can fall in love with all of these instruments


#1992662 - 11/30/12 03:09 AM Re: Convince us NOT to buy the Shigeru [Re: LynnieGC]  
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Quote
After flipping a few pianos the Estonia 225 and Fazioli 183 are the ones I ended up with


It's an honor for any piano to be compared to Fazioli.

I also happen to like the Shigery, but for slightly different reasons. All pianos speak with a slightly different voice, all are beautiful within their own right.

Our last customer for a 225 Estonia compared the piano to C.Bechstein and Fazioli, all highly worthy contenders on high end scene.

In the end the 225 won out for its remarkable singing treble and overall balance: next customer could well have preferred one of the others for different reasons.

Individual preference and mutual respect are keywords. It's a level playing field - very interesting to watch on one-by-one basis. Sometimes one piano wins over the other, sometimes it's the other way around. It's the nature of things.

P.S. we just got again a new 225 Estonia for those who are challenged by these type comparisons anywhere here in Western Canada.

Our last 225 grand was chosen by its new owner out of an interesting mix of pianos including Fazioli..

Norbert smile

Last edited by Norbert; 11/30/12 12:25 PM.

www.heritagepianos.com
Greater Vancouver B.C. piano dealers for : Estonia, Brodmann, Ritmuller
604-951-8642 www.eliteheritagepianos.ca Edmonton, Alta dealers for Estonia,
Brodmann 780-405-8908
#1992664 - 11/30/12 03:13 AM Re: Convince us NOT to buy the Shigeru [Re: LynnieGC]  
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I am willing to compare a Whitney spinet to a Fazioli. (The Fazioli is better. The Whitney can be honored if it wants.) smile


Semipro Tech
#1992754 - 11/30/12 11:07 AM Re: Convince us NOT to buy the Shigeru [Re: Wound up]  
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Originally Posted by Wound up
And Norbert, I thought Sam had one in Atlanta?
Had is the right word. Ours sold months ago but was only recently delivered when the performance hall finished construction.

More are coming, but if there is not one near the OP, it's irrelevant for their current decision.


Sam Bennett
PianoWorks - Atlanta Piano Dealer
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#1993413 - 12/01/12 10:50 PM Re: Convince us NOT to buy the Shigeru [Re: LynnieGC]  
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Originally Posted by LynnieGC

My real question is, is there any reason to NOT purchase the Shigeru? Any warnings you have for us?

Thank you so much for your advice!


Sure! Shigeru's are somewhat rare and as soon as a few of your serious students get their hands on one you will have a hard time keeping it locked up!

Not very helpful I know. But, I sure have a hard time keeping our friend's hands off of ours grin

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