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#1986562 - 11/14/12 10:10 AM Convince us NOT to buy the Shigeru  
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LynnieGC Offline
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Hi everyone, I am new to this forum, but have read some recent posts and they've been helpful. I'm hoping you can help us with a decision. I am the choir director for a large high school with high quality choir, band, and orchestra programs. We are a new high school with a great performing arts center, but NO piano for the stage. It's totally ridiculous, but for the past 5 years, we've been performing with a Yamaha upright practice room piano. The quality and size of our performing ensembles have far surpassed that piano and we are going to buy a semi-concert grand. Fortunately we have some sponsors lined up and our Boosters are ready to support us in this purchase.

We went out to obtain three bids on 7' (ish) grand pianos and visited a Steinway dealer, a Yamaha dealer, and a Kawai dealer. We absolutely fell in LOVE with the Shigeru Kawai. It sounds amazing, it's beautiful, and we appreciate some of the forward thinking with the construction, etc. We are convinced, but the problem is, the band, orchestra directors, and I don't really play. I mean, we "play" but we don't play. I would love to hear from some piano soloists and those musicians who have experience with many pianos.

Our bids are for the Yamaha C7X Semi-Concert Grand, a 2002 Restored Steinway B, and the Shigeru Kawai Semi-Concert Grand. We were not really moved by the Yamaha or impressed with the support that the dealer would be willing to provide so we're not really considering that. The Shigeru people were AWESOME and the Steinway people are pushy and extremely negative about the Shigeru (but they're salespeople, right?). Kind of a turnoff, but obviously Steinway pianos are amazing. We just loved the Shigeru...

My real question is, is there any reason to NOT purchase the Shigeru? Any warnings you have for us?

Thank you so much for your advice!

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#1986565 - 11/14/12 10:19 AM Re: Convince us NOT to buy the Shigeru [Re: LynnieGC]  
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There is no reason not to buy that Kawai if it is what you prefer. It is a very well made and reliable piano with a quality company behind it. I wonder what they mean by "restored" with a 2002 Steinway. Or do you mean it was restored in 2002 and is an older piano?

If those are your only options, I think the Kawai is fine for your purpose, and you obviously didn't enjoy your treatment in the sales process by the people who are selling the Steinway. I would assume that how you are treated in the sales process will reflect how you will be treated by that company for service and for anything else as well.

However, since you, as you say, "play, but don't play", for peace of mind, why not get a really serious and accomplished player to help you with your choice? If this piano were just for accompanying a choir, any one of the three ( assuming there isn't something strange going on with a "restored" 2002 piano ) would be fine. If the piano will also be used as the featured instrument for concerts, you may want to get the opinion of someone who is more accomplished as a pianist.


Keith D Kerman
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#1986566 - 11/14/12 10:20 AM Re: Convince us NOT to buy the Shigeru [Re: LynnieGC]  
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Based on what you have described I'd guess that no one here will even try to talk you out of the Shigeru.

It is an excellent piano and well suited your your situation.


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#1986573 - 11/14/12 10:53 AM Re: Convince us NOT to buy the Shigeru [Re: LynnieGC]  
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"My real question is, is there any reason to NOT purchase the Shigeru?"

No. None whatsoever. Congratulations.

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#1986579 - 11/14/12 11:16 AM Re: Convince us NOT to buy the Shigeru [Re: LynnieGC]  
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I'm not talking you out Shigeru, but I want another point to reach you. Trying a Steinway, a Yamaha and a Kawai is still nowhere near the variety of representative pianos out there to try. Clearly for you, the Shigeru was the standout of that group, however what else is in your area to consider?

You should seriously see what the European makers have to offer before you wrap your decision. I believe there would be several in your budget range.


Sam Bennett
PianoWorks - Atlanta Piano Dealer
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#1986582 - 11/14/12 11:22 AM Re: Convince us NOT to buy the Shigeru [Re: LynnieGC]  
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I would look at Estonia too.. My favorite in it's price but nothing wrong with the Kawai__ Good Luck!

#1986588 - 11/14/12 11:38 AM Re: Convince us NOT to buy the Shigeru [Re: LynnieGC]  
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The Shigeru may well require less maintenance due to the composite materials in its action. As I guess many people will play the instrument, individual preferences for one brand or another should not be a major factor.

Good luck.


Ian Russell
Schiedmayer & Soehne, 1925 Model 14, 140cm
Ibach, 1905 F-IV, 235cm
#1986602 - 11/14/12 12:29 PM Re: Convince us NOT to buy the Shigeru [Re: LynnieGC]  
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If you're happy with the Shigeru and the people selling it, there's no reason to pass. It's not really my cup-o-tea, but as a pianist and technician, I recognize it as a top-tier instrument... and of course it comes with a 10 year warranty.

#1986646 - 11/14/12 02:25 PM Re: Convince us NOT to buy the Shigeru [Re: PianoWorksATL]  
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Originally Posted by PianoWorksATL
I'm not talking you out Shigeru, but I want another point to reach you. Trying a Steinway, a Yamaha and a Kawai is still nowhere near the variety of representative pianos out there to try. Clearly for you, the Shigeru was the standout of that group, however what else is in your area to consider?

You should seriously see what the European makers have to offer before you wrap your decision. I believe there would be several in your budget range.


I agree. The Shigeru is a very fine piano, and you won't go *wrong* with it, but in that price range there are other fine pianos.


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#1986657 - 11/14/12 02:43 PM Re: Convince us NOT to buy the Shigeru [Re: ClsscLib]  
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Thanks everyone!

We did look at Boesendorfer and Estonia as well. The Boesendorfer is way out of our price range (obviously), but the only Estonias that are around us right now are the 5' models...we weren't able to get as good of an idea because there are no semi-grands around for us to play....

The maintenance piece is big for us. We are a public school with a little budget and the hope of less maintenance fees for the Shigeru vs. the Steinway is appealing.

Regardless, the fact that we'll be performing on something OTHER than a little brown yamaha upright is very exciting.

Thanks for your thoughts! Any others are welcome!

#1986660 - 11/14/12 02:55 PM Re: Convince us NOT to buy the Shigeru [Re: LynnieGC]  
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I don't think you'll really save a big deal on maintenance. The composite action might only have an edge 30+ years down the road as it wouldn't shrink or expand. You'd still have to treat your precious Shigeru baby like you would a very expensive Steinway or Bosie with regular tuning, cleaning, regulation, etc., etc. You'll still need to replace the non-carbon-fiber strings, felts, and bushings eventually.

#1986664 - 11/14/12 03:07 PM Re: Convince us NOT to buy the Shigeru [Re: gnuboi]  
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Originally Posted by gnuboi
I don't think you'll really save a big deal on maintenance. The composite action might only have an edge 30+ years down the road as it wouldn't shrink or expand. You'd still have to treat your precious Shigeru baby like you would a very expensive Steinway or Bosie with regular tuning, cleaning, regulation, etc., etc. You'll still need to replace the non-carbon-fiber strings, felts, and bushings eventually.


Absolutely, yes, we will treat our new piano with supreme care, but it is good to know that you think the maintenance costs will be the same. Perhaps our Shigeru salesperson was overstating that benefit smile

#1986667 - 11/14/12 03:12 PM Re: Convince us NOT to buy the Shigeru [Re: LynnieGC]  
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If you want to get an estimate of the cost of maintenance, you should ask your technician.


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#1986674 - 11/14/12 03:48 PM Re: Convince us NOT to buy the Shigeru [Re: LynnieGC]  
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Originally Posted by LynnieGC



The maintenance piece is big for us. We are a public school with a little budget and the hope of less maintenance fees for the Shigeru vs. the Steinway is appealing.

Regardless, the fact that we'll be performing on something OTHER than a little brown yamaha upright is very exciting.

Thanks for your thoughts! Any others are welcome!


Shigerus are absolutely great pianos. I had one for 4 years, and it never gave me a problem. From day one the action was impeccable and remained that way until I sold it. The only reason for the sale was I wanted a bigger piano, and I couldn't afford the SK6.

For your purposes I'd venture to say there is nothing in the price range that would come close to what you are looking for except the Mason & Hamlin BB with the new WNG composite action. The SK6 and the Mason BB would have very different sounds, but would both perform superbly.


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#1986701 - 11/14/12 05:56 PM Re: Convince us NOT to buy the Shigeru [Re: LynnieGC]  
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It sounds to me as if you have just started looking, and want this wrapped up quickly. That's certainly one way to make a big purchase. And you wouldn't go wrong with the Shigeru. But as others have suggested, you are in the big leagues here with a 7-foot high-end piano search, and there are now potentially dozens of worthy choices, especially if you include used instruments (which could save you some serious money).

Why not hire a local pianist and a local piano technician to do some sleuthing for a few weeks and give you a report? Tell them each they can skip visiting the local Steinway, Shigeru, and Yamaha dealers, since you've already hit those places, but to please source at least a handful of other instruments for you within your budget.

I've done such piano consulting here in Toronto, both for students and outsiders, and I like to think I've matched people and instruments with more success than had they done this unassisted. I'm a music educator with a zest for high-end pianos, coupled with a fair bit of knowledge and an obsessive nature. There's probably a similar nutbar sleuth right in your own community. Just make sure they are independent, and won't take kickbacks from dealers.

Also, if you can't find an Estonia locally, widen your search. Get on a train or an airplane, or make a road trip. Or get your consultant to do this for you.

One further thought, which might be controversial on this board: get rid of your ideas about a cosy post-sale relationship with the dealer. You just want to buy a great piano. What you need after the sale is a fine independent piano technician - a technician *not* beholden to the dealer. If the Steinway folks are jerks, you might still hold your nose and buy from them if they have a good instrument. (We haven't heard yet what year that Steinway B is.)

Good luck!

Last edited by Peter K. Mose; 11/14/12 06:02 PM.
#1986705 - 11/14/12 06:14 PM Re: Convince us NOT to buy the Shigeru [Re: LynnieGC]  
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Well, you shouldn't buy the Shigeru because the world's going to end December 12, how's that? Other than that, I can't think of any possible reason why not.

As a matter of due diligence, at least take a look/listen/play at a Bechstein. It's quite a monster . . . ! Best of luck, and good for your team AND your booster sponsors. smile


PianoPerfection
Teacher, performer, technician
Westchester County, NY
#1986707 - 11/14/12 06:15 PM Re: Convince us NOT to buy the Shigeru [Re: LynnieGC]  
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Withindale Offline
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Originally Posted by LynnieGC
Originally Posted by gnuboi
I don't think you'll really save a big deal on maintenance. The composite action might only have an edge 30+ years down the road as it wouldn't shrink or expand. You'd still have to treat your precious Shigeru baby like you would a very expensive Steinway or Bosie with regular tuning, cleaning, regulation, etc., etc. You'll still need to replace the non-carbon-fiber strings, felts, and bushings eventually.


Absolutely, yes, we will treat our new piano with supreme care, but it is good to know that you think the maintenance costs will be the same. Perhaps our Shigeru salesperson was overstating that benefit smile

I suggest you read what Ed Foote says about actions made from composites:

Originally Posted by Ed Foote
Greetings,... I am more interested, right now, on the level of maintenance needed with the WNG parts. With a school full pianos, (58 grnds, 90 uprights), having parts that don't warp or twist, or pinning that doesn't change, can make a huge difference in how much time is available to see that everybody is kept up. Freedom from straightening things up will allow more time for tuning and voicing, which are always in short supply in school situations.
So far, players feel like these actions are tremendously "precise". I may be getting too old to get the maximum out of the voicing, but in terms of control and consistency, I think these composite parts are going to do to wooden ones what carbon fiber did to wooden golf clubs and tennis rackets.
I think we have a clear choice between tradition and performance, here...
Regards,


Ian Russell
Schiedmayer & Soehne, 1925 Model 14, 140cm
Ibach, 1905 F-IV, 235cm
#1986733 - 11/14/12 07:30 PM Re: Convince us NOT to buy the Shigeru [Re: LynnieGC]  
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Originally Posted by LynnieGC

Absolutely, yes, we will treat our new piano with supreme care, but it is good to know that you think the maintenance costs will be the same. Perhaps our Shigeru salesperson was overstating that benefit smile

Whichever instrument you buy, please make sure that your budget will allow for a NICE cover, preferably with a perimeter cable locking system, and a heavy duty truck for moving it around the stage. These are 2 of the best things that you can do to preserve your schools investment. If the hall is not climate controlled 24/7 and/or you're in a predominately dry climate you may want to consider a humidifier as well.


Pro Presenters - Norman, OK

Opinions expressed by me on this forum are my own and not necessarily that of the company for which I work.
#1986744 - 11/14/12 07:59 PM Re: Convince us NOT to buy the Shigeru [Re: Peter K. Mose]  
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Originally Posted by Peter K. Mose
One further thought, which might be controversial on this board: get rid of your ideas about a cosy post-sale relationship with the dealer. You just want to buy a great piano. What you need after the sale is a fine independent piano technician - a technician *not* beholden to the dealer. If the Steinway folks are jerks, you might still hold your nose and buy from them if they have a good instrument. (We haven't heard yet what year that Steinway B is.)
I agree. The post service sale from a dealer is only important if there is a serious problem to deal with that the dealer should make good on or if there are no other good independent techs available.

Last edited by pianoloverus; 11/14/12 08:00 PM.
#1986759 - 11/14/12 08:24 PM Re: Convince us NOT to buy the Shigeru [Re: LynnieGC]  
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The benefit of the Steinway, for a private home, would be quality, status, and resale value, however, in my useless opinion, the dealer and service friendliness, and the pleasing tone alone should be the key. A Steinway that will be a commercial institution piano will not appreciate in value noticably. I like the idea of the new Kawai. Their track record seems to be very fine. Many posters suggested using a pianist to determine the playability, I would concur. There are many fine pianos available, but the Shigeru is very highly respected as I understand.


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#1986784 - 11/14/12 09:30 PM Re: Convince us NOT to buy the Shigeru [Re: LynnieGC]  
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I think it would be a mistake to approach any piano in a performance venue with the thought that one brand or another (among the better instruments out there) would save you money on maintenance.

Which tech you use is up to you, but our after sale relationship, service & technical resources are of huge value to the customers who choose us. We're even a frequent resource for the best independent techs in our area, offering behind-the-scenes support for the variety of things that arise in the field. Techs helping techs is good karma.

I won't speak for your dealer, but it may be a point of pride for them, too. I see this thread turning a little...while competing dealers are adversaries, you and your dealer shouldn't be. The comment about holding your nose and buying the piano is funny but rarely the best approach.

Certainly, pianos like the Estonia L225 can be harder to find, but worth searching/waiting for. I see that and other suggestions starting to roll in.


Sam Bennett
PianoWorks - Atlanta Piano Dealer
Bösendorfer, Estonia, Seiler, Grotrian, Hailun
Pre-Owned: Yamaha, Kawai, Steinway & other fine pianos
Full Restoration Shop
www.PianoWorks.com
www.youtube.com/PianoWorksAtlanta
#1986823 - 11/14/12 10:57 PM Re: Convince us NOT to buy the Shigeru [Re: LynnieGC]  
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Originally Posted by LynnieGC
but the only Estonias that are around us right now are the 5' models...we weren't able to get as good of an idea because there are no semi-grands around for us to play....


Estonia only recently started making a 225cm (7'4") grand piano, so there are not many around. I do know there is one in Chicago, though.

Originally Posted by LynnieGC
The maintenance piece is big for us. We are a public school with a little budget and the hope of less maintenance fees for the Shigeru vs. the Steinway is appealing.


I am hesitant to suggest that the Shigeru will require less maintenance. True, the action parts are ABS-carbon composite, but there is still felt in the action that will change with humidity. My advice is to spend less money a less expensive instrument (i.e. Shigeru vs. Steinway, etc.) and use the saved funds for tuning and maintenance. You will need it, as properly maintaining a concert instrument is expensive, especially for institutions!

I also suggest keeping it covered, in an environment with controlled humidity, and locked at all times. Do not let students move it unsupervised, and don't use it except for dress rehearsals and performances.

#1986887 - 11/14/12 11:55 PM Re: Convince us NOT to buy the Shigeru [Re: LynnieGC]  
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Not knowing your area, it is hard to know which brands and models are available close by, but if your budget allows for a 7 foot Shigeru Kawai grand, you should be able to find a large variety of great semi-concert pianos to consider. I have a strong feeling for the Mason-Hamlin BB which should be within your budget, and I would suggest you try a lot of pianos if possible before choosing, but the Shigeru is a world-class instrument so if you like it best, your should go for it. As you know, a master tech even comes out from Japan to do the final in-home prep, and I think the action in the Shigeru is great.

#1986900 - 11/15/12 12:56 AM Re: Convince us NOT to buy the Shigeru [Re: LynnieGC]  
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ando Online content
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I'm going to go against the grain a little here. I've found that there are times when trying everything on the market leads to a certain fatigue and increases the difficulty in making a decision. There are times when your instincts tell you, "yes, this is the one!". I think it's important to listen to your instincts sometimes. I had the impression from the OP that the Shigeru was exactly this kind of moment. It really spoke to him/her. I think it's quite likely that no other piano is going to make the same impact as the Shigeru did. I'm not advocating rash decisions or poor research in general, and if I'm unsure or ambivalent, then the only way to resolve that is to research the heck out of the matter. But if something just screams "yes!", and you have the money, I think it's better to just go for it and enjoy the magic of this revelation. I don't expect this will be a popular suggestion, but I found that the more pianos I looked at the harder it got to work out what I would like.

So, I'm not going to convince you to not buy the Shigeru - I'm going to say go with your gut.

#1986903 - 11/15/12 01:16 AM Re: Convince us NOT to buy the Shigeru [Re: LynnieGC]  
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My warning is: do not buy Shigeru Kawai SK-7, you will regret it.
In March 2011, I purchased SK-3, I think if I left SK-3, it must be in order to exchange for SK-5, or SK-7!

Last edited by Lakeside; 11/15/12 01:22 AM.

Shigeru Kawai SK-3
Kawai CA95(In Haikou City)
#1986939 - 11/15/12 03:33 AM Re: Convince us NOT to buy the Shigeru [Re: LynnieGC]  
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Two good reasons to buy a Mason & Hamlin are its WNG action and patriotism.

If everyone in your position were to follow the advice in this thread then American piano manufacturing will go bust.


Ian Russell
Schiedmayer & Soehne, 1925 Model 14, 140cm
Ibach, 1905 F-IV, 235cm
#1986943 - 11/15/12 03:56 AM Re: Convince us NOT to buy the Shigeru [Re: Withindale]  
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American pianos seem to do ok, but tend to be on the high end. For mere rabble like me, it's the same as having no American piano manufacturing.

#1986946 - 11/15/12 04:24 AM Re: Convince us NOT to buy the Shigeru [Re: Withindale]  
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Originally Posted by Withindale
Two good reasons to buy a Mason & Hamlin are its WNG action and patriotism.

Patriotism is the last thing I'd consider as a reason to choose a piano. (I'm saying this as a citizen of a European country with a proud piano industry.) If a company wants to do well it must compete, not appeal to heterogeneous (non-musical) reasons for buying its products.

#1986951 - 11/15/12 04:50 AM Re: Convince us NOT to buy the Shigeru [Re: maurus]  
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For my opinion its not fair to compare the SK-7 with the C7X. The Yamaha S6 is playing in the same league.

The SK-7 is a nice instrument, but I am not shure, if there really is a difference in maintenance costs lets say for the first 10 years.

#1986958 - 11/15/12 05:45 AM Re: Convince us NOT to buy the Shigeru [Re: LynnieGC]  
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Lynnie asked for reasons NOT to purchase a Shigeru and said the Boosters are prepared to support the purchase.

Imagine the Stars and Stripes draped over the M&H at the unveiling ceremony. You couldn't do that with a Shigeru.


Ian Russell
Schiedmayer & Soehne, 1925 Model 14, 140cm
Ibach, 1905 F-IV, 235cm
#1987019 - 11/15/12 11:20 AM Re: Convince us NOT to buy the Shigeru [Re: ando]  
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Originally Posted by ando
There are times when your instincts tell you, "yes, this is the one!". I think it's important to listen to your instincts sometimes. I had the impression from the OP that the Shigeru was exactly this kind of moment.


Ando - who sounds like my mom - makes a very good point, despite my earlier post. One can get overly obsessive about a big decision. There's a romance to all of this as well. (But it would still be nice to learn about that Steinway.)


#1987037 - 11/15/12 12:01 PM Re: Convince us NOT to buy the Shigeru [Re: LynnieGC]  
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Wow! Thank you all so much!

Regarding the relationship with the dealer. With a school, the importance of the relationship with the dealer during the fundraising process cannot be ignored and unfortunately, neither can the politics (partly why we don't have unlimited options for who we can buy the piano from) :-) The dealer for the Shigeru is certainly prepared to provide the most support for us.

All the bids include the best cover and a dolly for proper moving. We do have a piano storage room and also included a humidifier in our bid request. We have consulted with several piano technicians and artists in our area and they advised us on what to request and have given us some estimates of maintenance costs so we're not completely in the dark on that front.

Sadly we can't put the three pianos next to each other on the stage and listen...nor can we travel by plane, etc. to check out some of the other pianos available.

However, I will speak to my colleagues about looking at Mason and Hamlin, as I agree American made would speak to our potential sponsors and the community.

Thank you again everyone for your advice! It's great to hear from so many!

#1987125 - 11/15/12 03:41 PM Re: Convince us NOT to buy the Shigeru [Re: Withindale]  
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Originally Posted by Withindale
Two good reasons to buy a Mason & Hamlin are its WNG action and patriotism.

If everyone in your position were to follow the advice in this thread then American piano manufacturing will go bust.


This is really quite humorous if you think about it.

#1987214 - 11/15/12 08:14 PM Re: Convince us NOT to buy the Shigeru [Re: LynnieGC]  
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BTW

Looks like another fine institution recently chose a Shigeru SK7

http://www.facebook.com/photo.php?f...8.141433402569516&type=1&theater




#1987322 - 11/16/12 05:03 AM Re: Convince us NOT to buy the Shigeru [Re: LynnieGC]  
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Originally Posted by LynnieGC

With a school, the importance of the relationship with the dealer during the fundraising process cannot be ignored and unfortunately, neither can the politics (partly why we don't have unlimited options for who we can buy the piano from) :-) The dealer for the Shigeru is certainly prepared to provide the most support for us.


Can a couple of our PW posters more familiar with US public school culture either translate or better explain these two quoted sentences? They leave me scratching my head.

If we are dealing here with a large high school with a performing arts center and a large music department, it seems we are dealing with a school in a large metropolitan area (probably over 1 million inhabitants) offering several piano dealers to choose from. Clearly there are at least 3 dealers - Steinway, Yamaha, and Kawai - so this is not a small town of 10,000 people, where everybody knows everybody, and everybody shops at McGillicuddy's Pianos & Kazoos (est. 1912).

Two piano dealers will be disappointed after this purchase decision in any case. Therefore why not widen the decision-making to embrace more dealers? Why not include private sales of high-end used pianos? For that matter, why *not* be willing to look further afield? Don't the Boosters want the best piano for the kids?

Does the second quoted sentence mean: "The Shigeru folks will throw in free Kawai t-shirts for our choir?" Or, "The Shigeru folks are promising to service our new seven-foot piano for free for the next ten years, provided we promise to buy all future upright or digital pianos from them"?




#1987555 - 11/16/12 06:12 PM Re: Convince us NOT to buy the Shigeru [Re: LynnieGC]  
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As someone who owns both an S&S B and an SK7 I'll chime in with some thoughts. I've just concluded an exhaustive hunt that ended up with the addition of the SK7 and I've had a chance to play many of the representative samples mentioned in this thread that are potential targets for you. Of course all pianos are different so the comments about playing as many pianos that are in budget and accessible is still the best advise.

For your purposes, assuming that the SK7 available to you is at all like mine, I would not attempt to change your first inclination. My SK7 projects like many concert grands and has many very fine qualities. I love my B, but if I were going to put one in any reasonably large performance setting the SK7 would win hands down. Also in comparison to most of the other pianos I considered. I had the chance to play and consider a brand new 9' Estonia (which would likely fit your budget), but it paled in comparison. I didn't get a chance to try the new 7'4" Estonia, but from the range of models I did try they didn't seem to have the power to project in a concert setting. I can appreciate the appeal for a home, but I'd question them for the OPs requirements.

I would agree with those that have suggested a look at the M&H BB. It's certainly an option and the right price point. I played a few and they had immediate appeal - though I grew tired of their sound after a while. Fun to date - didn't quite want to settle down :-)
Another possibility for the group that was pointing to European possibilities would be a Schimmel K213 if that was available as an option. It was a contender in my evaluations and it had power, colour and tone that might work. It didn't quite make it for me - I couldn't get over the rather poor pedal operations of the Schimmels and the refinement of the SK7 action eventually won out.

While there are some other options - I don't think anyone would have a problem with your decision to purchase the SK7 assuming you have done your due diligence from the financial side. You can't be too careful these days if you're spending public funds.

#1990542 - 11/25/12 01:57 AM Re: Convince us NOT to buy the Shigeru [Re: LynnieGC]  
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I agree with the post above mine . Try a schimmel 7 foot and compare.
Myself and 2 other pianists went through the Kawai models from the rx3 to rx 6, and the shiguru kawai 6 foot to 7 foot models. Then played the Schimmel model below the 7 foot, then the 7 foot model and thats where we stayed. These pianos were all in the same showroom all in a line so it was easy to just keep moving on down one after another for comparison. The action on the 7 foot schimmel was very consistant and just felt right from the first chords I played. We didnt play chop sticks on these pianos either, we played chopin polonaises, etudes,waltzes, the rachmaninoff piano concertos with cadenza etc.. So they were put through their paces. On the schimmel going up the length of the keyboard on a difficult run was much easier and fluid. Complex chords in the bass resolved clearer and with more resonance. The Schimmel I believe was even less money than the shigeru. So thats my experience. In the end though its your preference.Everyone is different. Good luck on your search.

#1990746 - 11/25/12 04:45 PM Re: Convince us NOT to buy the Shigeru [Re: LynnieGC]  
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Just buy the Estonia They sound prettier to me...

#1990748 - 11/25/12 04:48 PM Re: Convince us NOT to buy the Shigeru [Re: LynnieGC]  
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I have tried SO many Estonias they are incredibly consistent I would just order one --

#1990752 - 11/25/12 04:54 PM Re: Convince us NOT to buy the Shigeru [Re: Wound up]  
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Originally Posted by Wound up
Just buy the Estonia They sound prettier to me...



Would YOU buy a piano simply because a stranger on the internet told you to?

Your posts on this thread are less than useful.

The OP should buy the piano THEY love, not the one YOU love.



Pianist, Composer
Disclaimer: Shigeru Kawai Artist
#1990775 - 11/25/12 06:46 PM Re: Convince us NOT to buy the Shigeru [Re: Wound up]  
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Originally Posted by Wound up
I have tried SO many Estonias they are incredibly consistent I would just order one --


I've actually found quite the opposite to be true. Although the nice one(s) I've played were quite nice in many ways.

Shigeru is one of the most consistent pianos out there. They may not all sound the same as each other, but they most definitely all perform at a very high standard.

If I were buying for a recital hall it would be one of my first choices.


Recordings of my recent solo piano and piano/keyboard trio jazz standards.


#1990812 - 11/25/12 09:27 PM Re: Convince us NOT to buy the Shigeru [Re: LynnieGC]  
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Originally Posted by LynnieGC
Wow! Thank you all so much!

... The dealer for the xxxx is certainly prepared to provide the most support for us.


Talking of support, I'd ensure that any implied - or verbal - benefits are confirmed in writing. I found at least one sales dealer recently here promised the world (well, almost) to string me along, but when the final quotation arrived, it included less than many other dealers.


Alan from Queensland, Australia (and Clara - my Grotrian Concert & Allen Organ (CF-15)).
#1990903 - 11/26/12 03:04 AM Re: Convince us NOT to buy the Shigeru [Re: LynnieGC]  
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It's incredible how many pianos are selling these days to customers "sight unseen".

There must be something about some pianos where the question of 'consistency' may in fact not be the main consideration, if at all.

Using a certain tech perhaps and maximizing the acoustics within a given environment most typically "is".

Once this is accomplished, few questions seem to be asked after.

Norbert


www.heritagepianos.com
Greater Vancouver B.C. piano dealers for : Estonia, Brodmann, Ritmuller
604-951-8642 www.eliteheritagepianos.ca Edmonton, Alta dealers for Estonia,
Brodmann 780-405-8908
#1990943 - 11/26/12 06:30 AM Re: Convince us NOT to buy the Shigeru [Re: AJF]  
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Originally Posted by AJF
Originally Posted by Wound up
Just buy the Estonia They sound prettier to me...



Would YOU buy a piano simply because a stranger on the internet told you to?

Your posts on this thread are less than useful.

The OP should buy the piano THEY love, not the one YOU love.


I Guess you missed the title of the thread....
And after much research Fazioli and Estonia are the 2 I would buy New/or newer sight unseen...

(I DID once buy an Imperial sight unseen (tech checked it out)

Keeping in your spirit -- Not sure whats right for YOU and YOUR taste, But If the orig poster asks to be convinced NOT to buy a shigeru - I give my vote to give the Estonia a serious Look --

I think my observation the MANY newer Estonias I have seen that they were all acceptable to be IS a potentially useful piece of information -- but you can say it is less than useful it's ok!

Last edited by Wound up; 11/26/12 06:42 AM.
#1990984 - 11/26/12 10:16 AM Re: Convince us NOT to buy the Shigeru [Re: LynnieGC]  
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Hi all,

I never played the Shigeru (however I played on some new mid-sized Kawai grand and I was disapoointed, don't remeber the model now), but if you want some top-class piano maybe you should also check these pianos (which I for people in America ale less knownwhat I see in this forum):
- C. Bechstein
- Petrof
- Grotrian-Steinweg
- Bluthner

Unfortunalety, the first two are the same price range as Steinway, but also the same superb quality.
I see that even in pianos popularity is often connected with marketing,
not in quality alwas (for example low popuarity of Bechstein pianos, which are the same amazing as Fazioli or S&S)

#1991174 - 11/26/12 05:38 PM Re: Convince us NOT to buy the Shigeru [Re: Norbert]  
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Originally Posted by Norbert
It's incredible how many pianos are selling these days to customers "sight unseen".

Norbert

Would you expand on your statement? What types of piano and buyer, what percentage of pianos, etc?


Ian Russell
Schiedmayer & Soehne, 1925 Model 14, 140cm
Ibach, 1905 F-IV, 235cm
#1991252 - 11/26/12 09:51 PM Re: Convince us NOT to buy the Shigeru [Re: Wound up]  
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Originally Posted by Wound up
Originally Posted by AJF
Originally Posted by Wound up
Just buy the Estonia They sound prettier to me...



Would YOU buy a piano simply because a stranger on the internet told you to?

Your posts on this thread are less than useful.

The OP should buy the piano THEY love, not the one YOU love.


I Guess you missed the title of the thread....
And after much research Fazioli and Estonia are the 2 I would buy New/or newer sight unseen...

(I DID once buy an Imperial sight unseen (tech checked it out)

Keeping in your spirit -- Not sure whats right for YOU and YOUR taste, But If the orig poster asks to be convinced NOT to buy a shigeru - I give my vote to give the Estonia a serious Look --

I think my observation the MANY newer Estonias I have seen that they were all acceptable to be IS a potentially useful piece of information -- but you can say it is less than useful it's ok!


Sorry. I guess I was a little harsh in my delivery. That being said, your posts (as I interpreted them) basically said "i love Estonias! You should just get that piano!"
Have you tried a Shigeru? Many people, myself included, would not choose an Estonia over a Shigeru. Not because Shigerus are better but because they are so different. I DID read the OP. By saying "convince us NOT to buy a Shigeru" they are actually saying 'I really WANT a Shigeru'
The OP did ask if there is anything about these pianos that they need to be warned about. And anyone who knows these pianos knows they are top notch and there is nothing about them that is less than world class. So to chime in on this thread to simply say "you should buy an Estonia!!!" to me seems pointless. It's pretty obvious that the OP wants a Shigeru.



Pianist, Composer
Disclaimer: Shigeru Kawai Artist
#1991281 - 11/27/12 12:38 AM Re: Convince us NOT to buy the Shigeru [Re: LynnieGC]  
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Quote
We went out to obtain three bids on 7' (ish) grand pianos and visited a Steinway dealer, a Yamaha dealer, and a Kawai dealer. We absolutely fell in LOVE with the Shigeru Kawai.


In a case like this, it would only make sense to say "yes"
The OP wouldn't really need to have ask anyone.

In this context, any other brands mentioned in terms of even basic comparison must be at least same size piano.

If comparison is really what this is all about [not sure if it is..] then not just any Estonia but the 7'4 grand 225 must be the one required in the line up.

Only question is if it "is" - "should" or even "could"

There's very few of them in the country to begin with...

Norbert

Last edited by Norbert; 11/27/12 12:45 AM.

www.heritagepianos.com
Greater Vancouver B.C. piano dealers for : Estonia, Brodmann, Ritmuller
604-951-8642 www.eliteheritagepianos.ca Edmonton, Alta dealers for Estonia,
Brodmann 780-405-8908
#1992634 - 11/30/12 12:54 AM Re: Convince us NOT to buy the Shigeru [Re: LynnieGC]  
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Good Point AJF,

I was salting their doubt for sure__

Yes I have played the Shigeru nice axe!

And Norbert, I thought Sam had one in Atlanta?


After flipping a few pianos the Estonia 225 and Fazioli 183 are the ones I ended up with (I operate a recording studio and have a piano fetish..) Sadly! the 225 is in storage while we remodel -- but I do like it alot__ wish I could upgrade the 6' Fazioli to the 228 then I would be in piano Heaven and financial Hell__

We are lucky in LA to have Pierre's Fine Piano's where you can fall in love with all of these instruments


#1992662 - 11/30/12 03:09 AM Re: Convince us NOT to buy the Shigeru [Re: LynnieGC]  
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Quote
After flipping a few pianos the Estonia 225 and Fazioli 183 are the ones I ended up with


It's an honor for any piano to be compared to Fazioli.

I also happen to like the Shigery, but for slightly different reasons. All pianos speak with a slightly different voice, all are beautiful within their own right.

Our last customer for a 225 Estonia compared the piano to C.Bechstein and Fazioli, all highly worthy contenders on high end scene.

In the end the 225 won out for its remarkable singing treble and overall balance: next customer could well have preferred one of the others for different reasons.

Individual preference and mutual respect are keywords. It's a level playing field - very interesting to watch on one-by-one basis. Sometimes one piano wins over the other, sometimes it's the other way around. It's the nature of things.

P.S. we just got again a new 225 Estonia for those who are challenged by these type comparisons anywhere here in Western Canada.

Our last 225 grand was chosen by its new owner out of an interesting mix of pianos including Fazioli..

Norbert smile

Last edited by Norbert; 11/30/12 12:25 PM.

www.heritagepianos.com
Greater Vancouver B.C. piano dealers for : Estonia, Brodmann, Ritmuller
604-951-8642 www.eliteheritagepianos.ca Edmonton, Alta dealers for Estonia,
Brodmann 780-405-8908
#1992664 - 11/30/12 03:13 AM Re: Convince us NOT to buy the Shigeru [Re: LynnieGC]  
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I am willing to compare a Whitney spinet to a Fazioli. (The Fazioli is better. The Whitney can be honored if it wants.) smile


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#1992754 - 11/30/12 11:07 AM Re: Convince us NOT to buy the Shigeru [Re: Wound up]  
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Originally Posted by Wound up
And Norbert, I thought Sam had one in Atlanta?
Had is the right word. Ours sold months ago but was only recently delivered when the performance hall finished construction.

More are coming, but if there is not one near the OP, it's irrelevant for their current decision.


Sam Bennett
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#1993413 - 12/01/12 10:50 PM Re: Convince us NOT to buy the Shigeru [Re: LynnieGC]  
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Originally Posted by LynnieGC

My real question is, is there any reason to NOT purchase the Shigeru? Any warnings you have for us?

Thank you so much for your advice!


Sure! Shigeru's are somewhat rare and as soon as a few of your serious students get their hands on one you will have a hard time keeping it locked up!

Not very helpful I know. But, I sure have a hard time keeping our friend's hands off of ours grin

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