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About the Dante Sonata -- anyone else have favorite recordings of this piece? I'm performing it right now, and the thing is really a peach to play -- nothing too unfriendly. Although, the tremolos in the paradise bit strike me as uninspired, and I have to seriously resist the urge to rewrite those bars.
Although, the tremolos in the paradise bit strike me as uninspired, and I have to seriously resist the urge to rewrite those bars.
I agree with this. It's somewhat banal in retrospect. That being said, done well (like Arrau) they can sound lovely in the context of the music, despite this perceived banality.
All sublime. For one who's looking to change their view of Liszt from an empty virtuoso to a great composer, these recordings are the ideal place to start.
Where is a good place to start with Liszt? Can anyone suggest a piece of reasonable length, but not massively difficult. If it helps I am currently studying: Beethoven op.14 no.1,op.51 no.1. Debussy: Danses le Duelph (prelude book 1 no.1) and dr Gradus and parnassum, Chopin Scherzo no.2, and Polonaise op.44 and op.55 nocturne
Where is a good place to start with Liszt? Can anyone suggest a piece of reasonable length, but not massively difficult. If it helps I am currently studying: Beethoven op.14 no.1,op.51 no.1. Debussy: Danses le Duelph (prelude book 1 no.1) and dr Gradus and parnassum, Chopin Scherzo no.2, and Polonaise op.44 and op.55 nocturne
What does reasonable length mean? 5 minutes? 8 minutes? 10? 15? And what does studying mean? How are you going with the pieces? I'm particularly interested in the Op. 44 Polonaise and the Scherzo No. 2. Lastly, have you asked your teacher?
A good place to start! What are you thinking of starting with?
Not sure. I adore the jeux d'eaux from the third book, but I don't know if that's the one I want to start with. Getting the right touch on that piece will be difficult at best. There was one that I stumbled across last week in the car, just had my spotify going through some liszt album on there, and it was glorious but for the life of me I can't find it right now. :[.
Piano/Composition major.
Proud owner of a beautiful Yamaha C7.
Polish: Liszt Petrarch Sonnet 104 Bach WTC book 1 no. 6. Dello Joio Sonata no. 3
A good place to start! What are you thinking of starting with?
Not sure. I adore the jeux d'eaux from the third book, but I don't know if that's the one I want to start with. Getting the right touch on that piece will be difficult at best. There was one that I stumbled across last week in the car, just had my spotify going through some liszt album on there, and it was glorious but for the life of me I can't find it right now. :[.
Here i'll try to help, when I think of "glorious" in the Annees de Pelerinage firstly I think of...
Vallee d'Obermann (the glorious bit is the ending, from 10:30 on).
I'll go with Ian on the 5th, but the 4th is really something to contend with.
Magnificent!
Edit: I'm having BIG issues at the moment with Percy Whitlock (and pity my Facebook friends), a British organ and church music composer which should have had a far greater career than he did.
And thus I don't really understand why Liszt's 4th Rhapsody is so neglected. Funny how it goes.
Last edited by argerichfan; 11/10/1209:48 PM. Reason: Yes, it is funny.
I'll go with Ian on the 5th, but the 4th is really something to contend with.
Magnificent!
Edit: I'm having BIG issues at the moment with Percy Whitlock (and pity my Facebook friends), a British organ and church music composer which should have had a far greater career than he did.
And thus I don't really understand why Liszt's 4th Rhapsody is so neglected. Funny how it goes.
Thanks, Jason. I'm not as intimately familar with Liszt's HR's as I am most of his collections (quite a few of them I wouldn't be able to hum without hearing part of it first), and the 4th is one I haven't given much attention...but it is terrific.
I think Liszt's Rhapsodies are underrated in general. So often they're used as examples to trash Liszt, but they form such an important part of his output. They're just so fun, pianistically brilliant and innovative, colourful, dancey, with that wonderful Hungarian tang... and at times profoundly moving (like the 5th, some of the lassan sections). I only think it's a problem when people hear some of the more extroverted ones without being well-versed in Liszt's other music and get this impression of Liszt as a fun, brilliant but not particularly profound composer. When seen as just another side to him they should only magnify his status.
A favourite of mine that hasn't been listed is 1. One of the most charming pieces I know.
I used to disregard Liszt's HR's as being a weak, unimportant, hollow part of Liszt's output, but not anymore. I now realise just how much I like them, how enjoyable each and every one is.
Litanies de Marie is a work that Liszt included in the 1847 cycle of the Harmonies poetiques et religiueses, but didn't revise into the later one (despite a thematic relation with the Invocation, although that relationship was evident with the earlier version of the Invocation too) because of his broken relationship with the Countess 'Marie' d'agoult. It's unfortunate because, despite some lesser passages and perhaps going on for too long, it is certainly a work that's worthy of more frequent hearing and it being revised and inserted into the later cycle would have assured that. IMO it could have been a worthy addition to the large works in the later cycle, Benediction, Funerailles, and Pensees if it had that last bit of editoral shrewdness.
When Van Cliburn was entering the kind of competitions where he got to choose the first piece he played he usually performed the HR 12 as his first piece. Even though most would think this is not a good or appropriate piece to perform as your choice to start, the thinking was that he played it so well that it would create a terrific impression.
Although, the tremolos in the paradise bit strike me as uninspired, and I have to seriously resist the urge to rewrite those bars.
I agree with this. It's somewhat banal in retrospect. That being said, done well (like Arrau) they can sound lovely in the context of the music, despite this perceived banality.
I disagree. I think it's one of those situations where the written music actually works, but ultimately the performer fails to deliver. Not that it's easy by any means. The tragic example I always fall back to is the Rondo of Beethoven's Waldstein - I think one of the greatest sonatas committed to paper, and most often disappointing when played... I can hear in my head what it's supposed to be, and no one (my unfortunate amateur self included) comes close to getting it right. I remain amazed at the glories of listening to a magical Beethoven performance: Gilels @ Op 57, Arrau @ 111, many I've enjoyed @ the fiendishly difficult Op 109, yet, everyone seems to fall flat on his/her face when it comes to Op 53. There's an Argerich performance that floated around YouTube a couple years back that I greatly enjoyed, but even my darling Argerich couldn't deliver a performance of the Rondo that left me completely satisfied.
On the Dante - there's a Lise de la Salle performance getting a lot of playtime on Sirius Classical/Pops. I've heard it like 3 times in the last month alone. A fine performance, if anything can actually come close to satisfactory for this incredibly difficult (and I mean musically difficult!) masterpiece. I think part of what captivates me about this performance is that although she's mid-20s now and I'm sure she's physically grown and matured, in my head I still picture a petite 16-year old blonde haired prodigy pounding out such powerful music. I heard her perform Ravel and Prokofiev live back in 2008 at barely 20 years old, and oh my, what a mature musician she was even back then.
There's also a live recording by Kemal Gekic that I greatly enjoy (parts of.) He's a bit quirky (check out photos of his often wild mane, he would almost look like Liszt were he blonde) but MAN, does he bring the house down with those final chords and that thundering closing tremolo. I'm surprised he didn't break a string (or his wrist!) Or maybe he did...
-Daniel
Currently working on: -Poulenc Trois pièces -Liszt Harmonies du Soir -Bach/Brahms Chaconne for Left Hand
Although, the tremolos in the paradise bit strike me as uninspired, and I have to seriously resist the urge to rewrite those bars.
I agree with this. It's somewhat banal in retrospect. That being said, done well (like Arrau) they can sound lovely in the context of the music, despite this perceived banality.
I'm curious to know what you guys think of the opening of The Benediction. Now THERE are some lousy tremolos. Cringeworthy. I rolled my eyes the first time I listened to the work, and probably let out an "Oh God..." but in a different tone than Liszt intended. But if you get past the first 1/3 of banality, oh what a glorious work. Every great composer had his duds (though I'm starting to wonder if Bach had any) but for all the $|#% that Liszt gets, it really doesn't matter, because I am so grateful that he left us such gorgeous music as the second and third "thirds" of the Benediction.
-Daniel
Currently working on: -Poulenc Trois pièces -Liszt Harmonies du Soir -Bach/Brahms Chaconne for Left Hand
Although, the tremolos in the paradise bit strike me as uninspired, and I have to seriously resist the urge to rewrite those bars.
I agree with this. It's somewhat banal in retrospect. That being said, done well (like Arrau) they can sound lovely in the context of the music, despite this perceived banality.
I'm curious to know what you guys think of the opening of The Benediction. Now THERE are some lousy tremolos. Cringeworthy. I rolled my eyes the first time I listened to the work, and probably let out an "Oh God..." but in a different tone than Liszt intended. But if you get past the first 1/3 of banality, oh what a glorious work. Every great composer had his duds (though I'm starting to wonder if Bach had any) but for all the $|#% that Liszt gets, it really doesn't matter, because I am so grateful that he left us such gorgeous music as the second and third "thirds" of the Benediction.
-Daniel
Now I love the tremolos you're talking about. They are the utmost in sheer religious serenity and calm beauty (and I don't think banal is a word you can describe it as, considering when it was written!). It's the sheer simplicity of religious faith that I think is so effective, and it logically progresses from this simplicity to the parts you find so glorious. I think it's one of his finest piano works.
As for your comments on the Dante, well I actually think I agree with you (after hearing Arrau's sublime performance). I haven't heard De Salle and Gekic, I shall make a note of doing so.
If endless tremolos bother you, it may be because they aren't played on the right piano: I've been listening to Liszt's Piano Concerto No.1 and his transcription of Beethoven's Pastoral Symphony played on Erards of the period, and they sound great - tremolos and all.....
