Welcome to the Piano World Piano Forums
Over 2.5 million posts about pianos, digital pianos, and all types of keyboard instruments
Join the World's Largest Community of Piano Lovers (it's free)
It's Fun to Play the Piano ... Please Pass It On!


SEARCH
Piano Forums & Piano World
(ad)
Virtual Sheet Music
Download Sheet Music Instantly
Virtual Sheet Music - Classical Sheet Music Downloads
Sheet Music...
(125ad)
Piano Life Saver - Dampp Chaser
Dampp Chaser Piano Life Saver
(ad)
Modern Piano Moving
Modern Piano Moving
(ad)
Piano Buyer Guide
Piano Buyer Spring 2017
(ad)
Lindeblad Piano
Lindeblad Piano Restorations and sales
Who's Online Now
55 registered members (Celestialgoat, Bambers, Beakybird, 36251, beeboss, alfredo capurso, 9 invisible), 1,469 guests, and 10 spiders.
Key: Admin, Global Mod, Mod
(ad)
Estonia Pianos
Estonia Pianos
Quick Links to Useful Piano & Music Resources
Our Classified Ads
Find Piano Professionals-

*Piano Dealers - Piano Stores
*Piano Tuners
*Piano Teachers
*Piano Movers
*Piano Restorations
*Piano Manufacturers

Quick Links:
*Advertise On Piano World
*Free Piano Newsletter
*Online Piano Recitals
*Piano Recitals Index
*Piano & Music Accessories
*Live Piano Venues
*Music School Listings
* Buying a Piano
*Buying A Acoustic Piano
*Buying a Digital Piano
*Pianos for Sale
*Sell Your Piano
*How Old is My Piano?
*Directory/Site Map
*Virtual Piano
*Music Word Search
*Piano Videos
*Virtual Piano Chords & Scales
Previous Thread
Next Thread
Print Thread
#1986221 - 11/13/12 04:18 PM Rejecting someone...  
Joined: Oct 2004
Posts: 2,074
fnork Offline
2000 Post Club Member
fnork  Offline
2000 Post Club Member

Joined: Oct 2004
Posts: 2,074
Helsinki, Finland
While the title of this thread could have numerous meanings, I would like to focus on how we deal with rejecting a musician - say, a chamber music partner or a singer - that we do not wish to continue working with. I am hardly the only one here to have been rejected at some point, am I? And I am hardly the only one who has felt the need to reject another musician that I for one reason or another could not continue working with, right? The question is, then, how do we deal with these things? Is your own approach normally to be diplomatic, using white lies? Do you approach the musician in question more directly and explain why you don't want to work further?

Last edited by fnork; 11/13/12 04:18 PM.
(ad)
Piano & Music Accessories
piano accessories music gifts tuning and moving equipment
#1986240 - 11/13/12 04:49 PM Re: Rejecting someone... [Re: fnork]  
Joined: Nov 2007
Posts: 6,491
Nikolas Offline
6000 Post Club Member
Nikolas  Offline
6000 Post Club Member

Joined: Nov 2007
Posts: 6,491
UK
There have been a number of reasons that I've rejected someone, and there's a couple of reasons why I never took part in an actual band, but only duos or trios:

1. I don't like people who are not professionals in their life. I don't care for someone who doesn't have tons of talent, or experience, but if someone is standing me up constantly, or ditching on set gigs, or other.

2. I also don't like people who are hitting on me and I really don't like it. However weird it may seem, it's happened to me more than once and I broke up the communication and collaboration immediately. I'm a married man and I have my rules and ethics that I follow. Anyone not willing to respect that... won't be my partner my partner in music!

3. If they are not good enough at what I want them to do. I'm at a very specific place that only goes 'up'. If someone is holding me back, for whatever reason I'm not forgiving at the least. This goes for partners, collaborators and workers alike.

__________________

I think that it's obvious that I have a strong personality and a strong will as well as the soul of a composer. All this means that I would never be able to get along another 3-4 members of the same band, in order to create something. I can create all alone, I don't need another 3-4 people to make it happen.

which is a problem of my own, and one should also note that exactly because of that, I've never been a member of a band, for more than a week...

#1986244 - 11/13/12 04:56 PM Re: Rejecting someone... [Re: Nikolas]  
Joined: May 2012
Posts: 5,820
JoelW Online content
5000 Post Club Member
JoelW  Online Content
5000 Post Club Member

Joined: May 2012
Posts: 5,820
USA
I think OP was asking more about how to break it off with a partner.

#1986246 - 11/13/12 04:59 PM Re: Rejecting someone... [Re: fnork]  
Joined: May 2010
Posts: 168
Ian_G Offline
Full Member
Ian_G  Offline
Full Member

Joined: May 2010
Posts: 168
Germany
I don't know, Nikolas, your 2nd complaint sounds pretty awesome. (Why in the world would I otherwise learn a flute sonata?)

Anyway, OP, be direct. Tell them exactly why you'd prefer not to play with them, if the reason is a musical one.

(ad ) MusicNotes.com
sheet music search
#1986329 - 11/13/12 08:49 PM Re: Rejecting someone... [Re: fnork]  
Joined: May 2009
Posts: 579
boo1234 Offline
500 Post Club Member
boo1234  Offline
500 Post Club Member

Joined: May 2009
Posts: 579
I am of the school of thought that says you should gradually stop contact with someone you wish to cut out. After a while when you stop calling, they get the picture.

#1986331 - 11/13/12 08:55 PM Re: Rejecting someone... [Re: boo1234]  
Joined: May 2001
Posts: 20,327
BruceD Offline
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member
BruceD  Offline

Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member

Joined: May 2001
Posts: 20,327
Victoria, BC
Originally Posted by boo1234
I am of the school of thought that says you should gradually stop contact with someone you wish to cut out. After a while when you stop calling, they get the picture.


All very well, but if that "someone" is someone whom you wish not to work with, and that someone calls to ask you to work on repertoire with him/her, the question remains : Do you bluntly say you don't wish to work with that person or do you invent an excuse that is a little less blunt?

In the second instance, one must be careful that the excuse doesn't suggest unavailability for this one particular moment. How do you tactfully and politely discourage someone with whom you don't want to work that there is no chance of future collaboration?

Regards,


BruceD
- - - - -
Estonia 190
#1986340 - 11/13/12 09:19 PM Re: Rejecting someone... [Re: fnork]  
Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 2,607
debrucey Offline
2000 Post Club Member
debrucey  Offline
2000 Post Club Member

Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 2,607
Manchester, UK
Have an affair with their life partner. They're unlikely to want to be involved with you after that.

#1986348 - 11/13/12 09:43 PM Re: Rejecting someone... [Re: fnork]  
Joined: Jul 2004
Posts: 5,974
Dave Horne Online content
5000 Post Club Member
Dave Horne  Online Content
5000 Post Club Member

Joined: Jul 2004
Posts: 5,974
Vught, The Netherlands
... make it look like an accident.



website | mp3\wav files | Yamaha AvantGrand N3 | Roland RD 2000 | Sennheiser HD 598 headphones
#1986350 - 11/13/12 09:50 PM Re: Rejecting someone... [Re: fnork]  
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 6,612
Damon Offline
6000 Post Club Member
Damon  Offline
6000 Post Club Member

Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 6,612
Just say "I break with thee, I break with thee, I break with thee" then throw dog poop on their shoes.

#1986352 - 11/13/12 09:58 PM Re: Rejecting someone... [Re: debrucey]  
Joined: Nov 2006
Posts: 9,355
argerichfan Offline
9000 Post Club Member
argerichfan  Offline
9000 Post Club Member

Joined: Nov 2006
Posts: 9,355
Pacific Northwest, US.
Originally Posted by debrucey
Have an affair with their life partner. They're unlikely to want to be involved with you after that.

laugh


Jason
#1986353 - 11/13/12 10:06 PM Re: Rejecting someone... [Re: BruceD]  
Joined: Nov 2006
Posts: 9,355
argerichfan Offline
9000 Post Club Member
argerichfan  Offline
9000 Post Club Member

Joined: Nov 2006
Posts: 9,355
Pacific Northwest, US.
Originally Posted by BruceD
How do you tactfully and politely discourage someone with whom you don't want to work that there is no chance of future collaboration?

Interestingly, this is how I ended up learning the piano part of the Brahms Horn Trio. (And I had about two months notice.)

To this day I don't know the details, but the violin and horn players mutually decided to dump their pianist and then called me. I don't think there was anything tactful or polite involved. They just got sick of working with the pianist.


Jason
#1986358 - 11/13/12 10:19 PM Re: Rejecting someone... [Re: fnork]  
Joined: May 2007
Posts: 6,165
currawong Offline
6000 Post Club Member
currawong  Offline
6000 Post Club Member

Joined: May 2007
Posts: 6,165
Down Under
I tend to use the true-but-not-quite-to-the-point excuse first of all, such as "I'm too busy", "I'm not available", "I need a break", "it's not the sort of repertoire I'm interested in at the moment". If someone keeps at it I give a more pointed reply. I told someone last year that I could no longer do the gig because I didn't think it could come together in time (code for "you just aren't up to it and I don't want to be associated with it"), and when he was persistent I simply said no, I couldn't do it, and kept saying it. I don't tend to go into details about their failings unless I'm asked, and sometimes not then either.


Du holde Kunst...
#1986360 - 11/13/12 10:28 PM Re: Rejecting someone... [Re: currawong]  
Joined: Nov 2006
Posts: 9,355
argerichfan Offline
9000 Post Club Member
argerichfan  Offline
9000 Post Club Member

Joined: Nov 2006
Posts: 9,355
Pacific Northwest, US.
Originally Posted by currawong
I don't tend to go into details about their failings unless I'm asked, and sometimes not then either.

Yeah, sometimes it's a bit difficult to tell the truth: you're just too much of a prima donna.

Happened with a tenor I worked with some years back. I was glad to be free of that one...


Jason
#1986390 - 11/13/12 11:59 PM Re: Rejecting someone... [Re: fnork]  
Joined: Dec 2009
Posts: 127
JessicaB Offline
Full Member
JessicaB  Offline
Full Member

Joined: Dec 2009
Posts: 127
Be diplomatic. Say something like:

While I have enjoyed working with you, I don't believe at this time our artistic vision (style, ethic) is the same. I think for now at least, I would rather work with someone who is more in sync with my style. What can they say? It is purely objective - and you haven't really burned a bridge in the event that they get their act together.

Good luck.

#1986401 - 11/14/12 12:42 AM Re: Rejecting someone... [Re: JessicaB]  
Joined: Jun 2008
Posts: 5,450
gooddog Offline
5000 Post Club Member
gooddog  Offline
5000 Post Club Member

Joined: Jun 2008
Posts: 5,450
Seattle area, WA
Originally Posted by JessicaB
Be diplomatic. Say something like:

While I have enjoyed working with you, I don't believe at this time our artistic vision (style, ethic) is the same. I think for now at least, I would rather work with someone who is more in sync with my style. What can they say? It is purely objective - and you haven't really burned a bridge in the event that they get their act together.

Good luck.
thumb I think this direct, and tactful approach is the best. Give a few complements, give a neutral reason for the break and then leave no room for argument.

When I broke off lessons with a horrible teacher I could have said, "You are an awful, manipulative, sadistic person; I can't stand you, you lied to me over and over again and you have ruined my love of music", etc., but instead I said, "I want to thank you for all the lessons and your good advice but I feel our goals are just too different. I want to go in another direction so I think this should be my last lesson." It was polite but left no room for argument and as Jessica said, I didn't burn any bridges.


Best regards,

Deborah
#1986427 - 11/14/12 01:51 AM Re: Rejecting someone... [Re: debrucey]  
Joined: Jun 2005
Posts: 5,446
Derulux Offline
5000 Post Club Member
Derulux  Offline
5000 Post Club Member

Joined: Jun 2005
Posts: 5,446
Philadelphia
Originally Posted by debrucey
Have an affair with their life partner. They're unlikely to want to be involved with you after that.

I was going to say, be professional and courteous to them and tell them straight up (but nicely) that you would like to take a different direction with your career. But this sounds like so much more fun.. haha laugh



On a serious note.. I wouldn't completely close the door/burn the bridge by saying you never want to collaborate again. You never know what might happen in ten or twenty years. Bill Clinton always said, "Never tell anyone to go to heck unless you can actually make them go." I think it's sage advice.


Every day we are afforded a new chance. The problem with life is not that you run out of chances. In the end, what you run out of are days.
#1986429 - 11/14/12 01:54 AM Re: Rejecting someone... [Re: debrucey]  
Joined: Jun 2010
Posts: 635
GeorgeB Offline
500 Post Club Member
GeorgeB  Offline
500 Post Club Member

Joined: Jun 2010
Posts: 635
Originally Posted by debrucey
Have an affair with their life partner. They're unlikely to want to be involved with you after that.


Is that what you do Bruce boy?

#1986477 - 11/14/12 05:08 AM Re: Rejecting someone... [Re: fnork]  
Joined: Aug 2005
Posts: 5,921
-Frycek Offline
5000 Post Club Member
-Frycek  Offline
5000 Post Club Member

Joined: Aug 2005
Posts: 5,921
SC Mountains
Tell him you've decided to enter a monastery. Or the witness protection program.


Slow down and do it right.
[Linked Image]
#1986495 - 11/14/12 06:54 AM Re: Rejecting someone... [Re: GeorgeB]  
Joined: May 2012
Posts: 5,820
JoelW Online content
5000 Post Club Member
JoelW  Online Content
5000 Post Club Member

Joined: May 2012
Posts: 5,820
USA
Originally Posted by GeorgeB
Originally Posted by debrucey
Have an affair with their life partner. They're unlikely to want to be involved with you after that.


Is that what you do Bruce boy?


That's how he do.

#1986498 - 11/14/12 07:09 AM Re: Rejecting someone... [Re: fnork]  
Joined: Oct 2010
Posts: 9,131
bennevis Offline
9000 Post Club Member
bennevis  Offline
9000 Post Club Member

Joined: Oct 2010
Posts: 9,131
Why not take a leaf out of pop groups who break up (not that I know much - or care to know much - about them grin) and cite 'artistic differences' as a reason to break up? It could even be true (unlike with said pop groups), even if the truer reason might be that he's an ****hole ....


"I don't play accurately - anyone can play accurately - but I play with wonderful expression. As far as the piano is concerned, sentiment is my forte. I keep science for Life."
#1986570 - 11/14/12 10:30 AM Re: Rejecting someone... [Re: fnork]  
Joined: Mar 2003
Posts: 3,693
Keith D Kerman Offline
3000 Post Club Member
Keith D Kerman  Offline
3000 Post Club Member

Joined: Mar 2003
Posts: 3,693
Gaithersburg, MD (Washington D...
"It's not you, it's me"

Do it sooner rather than later. The longer you wait, the more time wasted, the more invested everyone becomes, and the harder it will be.

How would you want to be told? If you are serious, you probably want to know specifically why. This is not owed, and has a high probability of creating a very uncomfortable situation as most people will become extremely hurt and defensive. I guess it really depends on your relationship with the person up to that point.

Make sure whatever you do, be professional and polite, but direct. Don't say anything more than you need to say. I think there have been some good suggestions already in this thread.

What are the actual reasons here?


Keith D Kerman
PianoCraft
Rebuilding & Sales - vintage and used Steinway, Mason & Hamlin
New Steingraeber, Estonia, Baldwin
www.pianocraft.net
check out www.sitkadoc.com
www.twitter.com/pianocraft https://www.youtube.com/user/pianocraftchannel

keith@pianocraft.net 888-840-5460
#1986628 - 11/14/12 01:19 PM Re: Rejecting someone... [Re: bennevis]  
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 3,789
rocket88 Offline
3000 Post Club Member
rocket88  Offline
3000 Post Club Member

Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 3,789
Originally Posted by bennevis
Why not take a leaf out of pop groups who break up (not that I know much - or care to know much - about them grin) and cite 'artistic differences' as a reason to break up?


That won't work if the person is basically on the same page as you artistically, but you don't want to work together because he/she is a jerk, or can't play as well as you want, or some other reason that is unrelated to artistic vision.

Also, if you cite artistic differences, the person can always respond with "I can learn what it is you want", and then you are stuck.

In the past, I have said "I have chosen someone else to ____________this time, maybe next time we can work together if there is a next time", which there won't be.


Piano teacher and Blues and Boogie-Woogie pianist.
#1986944 - 11/15/12 04:04 AM Re: Rejecting someone... [Re: rocket88]  
Joined: May 2012
Posts: 1,393
Bobpickle Offline

Gold Supporter until July 10  2014
Bobpickle  Offline

Gold Supporter until July 10  2014


Joined: May 2012
Posts: 1,393
Cameron Park, California
Originally Posted by rocket88
Originally Posted by bennevis
Why not take a leaf out of pop groups who break up (not that I know much - or care to know much - about them grin) and cite 'artistic differences' as a reason to break up?


That won't work if the person is basically on the same page as you artistically, but you don't want to work together because he/she is a jerk, or can't play as well as you want, or some other reason that is unrelated to artistic vision.

Also, if you cite artistic differences, the person can always respond with "I can learn what it is you want", and then you are stuck.

In the past, I have said "I have chosen someone else to ____________this time, maybe next time we can work together if there is a next time", which there won't be.


I listen regularly to a popular former radio host who just discussed this topic in-depth recently and basically explained that when breaking off relationships, reasons generally need not (and should not) be provided as they're not only never satisfying, but more often than not, they leave room for debate when that obviously isn't what you want.


"[The trick to life isn't] just about living forever. The trick is still living with yourself forever."
#1986964 - 11/15/12 06:50 AM Re: Rejecting someone... [Re: Bobpickle]  
Joined: May 2012
Posts: 5,820
JoelW Online content
5000 Post Club Member
JoelW  Online Content
5000 Post Club Member

Joined: May 2012
Posts: 5,820
USA
Originally Posted by Bobpickle


I listen regularly to a popular former radio host who just discussed this topic in-depth recently and basically explained that when breaking off relationships, reasons generally need not (and should not) be provided as they're not only never satisfying, but more often than not, they leave room for debate when that obviously isn't what you want.



Moderated by  Brendan, Kreisler 

Piano Acc. & Gift Items in
Piano World's Online Store
In PianoSupplies.com ,(a division of Piano World) our online store for piano and music gifts and accessories, party goods, tuning equipment, piano moving equipment, benches, lamps Caster Cups and more.


Free Shipping on Jansen Artist Piano Benches
ad
Pierce Piano Atlas


(ad)
Pianoteq
Grotrian Concert
Royal
for Pianoteq out now
What's Hot!!
Why Do You Play The Piano?
-------------------
Posting Pictures on the Forums
-------------------
Forums RULES & HELP
-------------------
ADVERTISE on Piano World
-------------------
Piano Classified Ads
New Topics - Multiple Forums
What are the prices for kawai gx2 and essex 173?
by Piano Audio. 05/28/17 06:03 AM
An invisible music tip - ear.
by ZeroZero. 05/28/17 03:19 AM
I need help...PLEASE
by Flush. 05/27/17 10:22 PM
K. Kawai K48A from 1970 (Made in Japan)
by PianoMomCan. 05/27/17 09:45 PM
(ad)
Sheet Music Plus
Sheet Music Plus Featured Sale
(ad)
Accu-Tuner
Sanderson Accu-Tuner
Report Problems With New Forums
Report Problems with New Forums Here!
Forum Statistics
Forums44
Topics179,929
Posts2,630,450
Members87,905
Most Online15,252
Mar 21st, 2010
Visit our online store for gifts for music lovers

 
Help keep the forums up and running with a donation, any amount is appreciated!
Or by becoming a Subscribing member! Thank-you.
Donate   Subscribe
 
Our Piano Related Classified Ads
| Dealers | Tuners | Lessons | Movers | Restorations | Pianos For Sale | Sell Your Piano |

Advertise on Piano World
| Subscribe | Piano World | PianoSupplies.com | Advertise on Piano World |
| |Contact | Privacy | Legal | About Us | Site Map | Free Newsletter |


copyright 1997 - 2017 Piano World ® all rights reserved
No part of this site may be reproduced without prior written permission
Powered by UBB.threads™ PHP Forum Software 7.6.0