Piano World Home Page Forums Our Most Popular Forums Digital Pianos - Electronic Pianos - Synths & Keyboards Kawai CA95 keyboard action vs. others

Hi

I visited Rose Morris in London over the weekend, to try out the new Kawai CA95. I've been looking for a new piano to replace my ageing Technics DP (no sniggering at the back there) :-).

Anyway, Rose Morris stock Kawai ad Roland DPs, so I did some comparing. Sound-wise, I loved the CA95. The soundboard really helps give it some oomph in the bass, great stuff.

This was in stark contrast to the Rolands, which all sounded as if I was listening to them from another room. They sounded so badly muffled, I thought some setting must have been fiddled with - but they all sounded the same, and the assistant seemed to think that was as they should be.

When it came to Keyboard action, however, I had a reservation about the CA95. The keys seemed to take forever to rebound after playing a note. I conferred with another customer, we both tried some fast repetitions, and agreed that the keys were problematically "soupy", they just don't snap back quickly enough.

The Roland's keyboards seem to be emulating a Steinway, and snap back nice and quickly, though they do seem a bit insubstantial in comparison to the Kawai's keys.

It's really annoying actually, as I was all set to love the CA95, but these soupy keys are nagging at me. My other option is an N1 / NU1 but they're a bit above my price range, and in the case of the N1, a bit bulky.

Anyway, I'm still thinking about my options. I haven't tried the equivalent Yamaha CLP 470/480 yet, so will see how that goes. Has anyone else noticed similar issues with the Kawai? Or have any advice / ideas? Do tell. :-)

Matt

Ive had two ca95's (keys scratched on the first) and cannot fault either with speed of key return. Fast trills are only held back by my speed... i would try another ca95 or ca65 before being put off...

Plus tried the clp470 and not in the same league as ca95... dont know about clp480 but in uk its a lot more than the kawai

Was there no other ca65 or ca95 unit somewhere to try ? Just to be sure it wasn't just this unit and before the whole new CA series is written of as a result. You never know...

I'm going to return tomorrow morning and do a DAMN THOROUGH COMPARISON :-) of the ca95 and ca65 action. Actually I hope you are all right, and that particular piano is just rather loose-keyed, as I do love the ca95 apart from this issue.

I've not played the CA95 but when I did test play a CA93 I too had a perception that the key return was slowish. But I was also aware that the key length to the pivot was longer than that I was used to on my CN33. This might possibly account for this difference in perception (like a pendulum). Whether it affects playing repetition I cannot say, but I also thought the keydip was shallower and this may compensate. Question is I suppose would you get used to and adjust after a short period.

Did you try a Roland LX15 with the lid open? Maybe that is not so muffled.

Could you do a quick tryout on an ES7 as well, if they have that ? Just out of pure curiosity ; I wonder what your thoughts are about that keybed. I personally think its pretty fast in repetition , of course a different touch/feel than GF, but wonder of you like it.

Hope the other ca ('s) are indeed more to your liking and the unit you tried first was a bit off.

Hey Guys

Thanks for the ideas, I will definitely try the LX15 and ES7, and report back! There is another shop nearby which stocks the N1 and NU1, so I'll look at those too. (As well as the 470)

@Taylorius,

Do keep in mind that the CA95's Grand Feel action has the longest and heaviest keys of any DP out there, as they are almost identical to the Kawai EX concert grand. I believe that the player has to really work the action well to become accustomed to the feel with fast repetitions. There shouldn't be any issues with getting the effect you want with the triple sensors.

Here is short test which demonstrates some repeated notes:

https://www.box.com/s/m2yf56x2926dyprrpl7s

The notes have been played in short 4-note groups, from middle C to E, and, then the same again, one octave higher.

All of the notes I intended to repeat do appear to "sound."

So, no problems with getting the keys to work.

In my experience the Yamaha keyboard with the so called linear graded hammer is absolutely no match to the Kawai Grand Feel keyboard. The Yamaha keyboard plays very heavy and is realy noisy. I also cannot believe that you can play notes faster on the Kawai Grand Feel keyboard then the keys are able to return. Or you are a kind of Lucky Luke who shoots faster then his own shadow Maybe you just have to get used to this kind of realy wooden keyboard with exeptional long keys. I love it. But who am I ?

I have a Yamaha with GH3 keyboard. It's quiet, even after four years of use. And it's not heavy.

@Taylorius,

I wanted to add the CA95's "Grand Feel" action responds exactly how you want it to, depending on your ability and technique.

However, this action is not slow to rebound as the above test recording indicates.

I was refering to the new Yamaha linear graded hammer keyboards used in the CLP 470 and CLP 480. They make definitely more noise and play heavier then the Kawai GrandFeel keyboard used in the CA 65 and CA 95. The older GH3 Yamaha keyboard used in the CLP 370 and CLP 380 played lighter and not so noisy. Maybe your keyboard from four years ago resemble this ones. But ofcourse this is all very subjective.

I have a ca93 at home, but my piano tutor has a Yamaha grand (acoustic) . I chose the Kawai as the action is virtually identical to the Yamaha and of all the electronic pianos i tried, actually sounds and feels like a grand. I've owned the piano for over a year now and it never ceases to amaze me how beautiful it sounds. Do remember that playing the piano is also about technique. I used to play Hammond Organ for many years, so it's taken me the best part of a year and hours of Hanon to regain control of my left hand. I love to play Chopin and I reckon the action of this piano is up there with the best.

I had the opportunity to try out the CA93 last weekend and the Yamaha NU1, N1 and N2. While the CA93 was good for a digital the hybrids impressed me a lot more. I don't think you can beat having a real action over the simulated one. I think for myself the N1 would be the most ideal for serious practice. I even think it is superior to an acoustic upright. I didn't notice enough difference between the N1 and N2 to warrant the price difference.

I was hoping to like the CA93 and the NU1 as much as the N1 for monetary reasons, but I can't argue with how superior the action is between those and the N1.

I also tried some of the more standard Yamaha digitals like the Clavinovas and the actions just feels like mud in comparison.

Vid,

You were comparing the CA93 not the CA95? which as I read has much better action.
I am asking because in one or two months time I will need to decide between CA95, HP507 or CLP470

Till today I am playing on acoustic uproght, but I need to but digital due to change of my flat and my neighbours probably would kill me with me playing each evening on upright

I would have liked to try the CA95 but the store only had the 93 unfortunately. I think I would prefer the Kawai CA93 action over any Clavinova.

I know what its like with neighbours which is why I use a digital for home practice. I would also consider the NU1 which is comparable in price to the CA93.

Well, all these things are rather subjective and obviously you should choose what suites you. However, as the owner of a Kawai CA95, I can say that the keys on mine are are as receptive as an acoustic piano and when playing quick jazz they have bounced back with no delay, the sound of the Concert Grand is simply outstanding and I rarely change to another medium. I have no hum whatsoever from the transformer, the pedals are well placed for me as I am not too tall but do have big feet. The only thing I find slightly annoying is the sustaining pedal needs a little more effort to push down than I have been used to but that's no problem and I will get used to it. Hope I've not received a faulty piano.

Hi Vid

I must say I agree with you. I spent a morning looking at Kawai, Roland and Yamaha N1 / NU1, and the Yamahas were streets ahead, action wise (no surprise, given they ARE a real action).

I don't want to diss. the Kawai CA95, mind you. It was really good, I LOVED its sound (much better than the NU1, which lacked bottom end to my ear). I just found it's keys a little sluggish. More sluggish than its predecessor, in fact.

The Rolands I didn't care for to be honest. Muddy muffled sound from their speakers. People have mentioned listening through headphones, or using some other speakers, but that's no good IMO - it ought to do a decent job by itself.

I also tried the V-Piano, but contrary to many people on this forum, I didn't like its sound - it seemed overly metallic, and artificial sounding.

I'm excited to hear about Bluthner's new e-klavier. They have the higher end model in their London piano centre, so I am going to go and see it as soon as I can.

I wish I could try the e-klavier but I don't think there are any dealers in North America let alone my neck of the woods. Please report back your impressions.