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As for the Kawai CA95's piano sounds:

Have determined there is in fact a raspy, buzzing-like, metallic sound on several notes (just above middle C), C#, G#, A, C#, E, as altering many of the various "Virtual Technician" settings doesn't do anything to change it. The only piano preset that mutes/masks this fairly well is the "Mellow Grand" preset.

Also, this raspy (metallic) sound is most prominent with the default "Concert Grand" preset, and, is slightly less so with the "Concert Grand 2" preset. It is a very annoying and grating sound, although I don't particularly like having to compromise the settings to the "Mellow Grand" preset only, to avoid it.

And, I just confirmed that these buzzing notes sound the same whether listening to the speakers, or, through headphones. So, the fuzzy sounds are innate to the presets themselves, as it is not a soundboard / cabinet vibration.

Has anyone else encountered this?

pv88, given that you are hearing the same sound though both the instrument's speaker system and headphones, I expect the characteristic you are hearing was also present on the original Kawai EX concert grand when sampled.

I'm afraid there is not a great deal I can advise, beyond selecting a voice that uses different piano samples, as you have tried.

Kind regards,
James
x

@James,

I agree with you that what I am hearing are the sampled sounds for those presets, as the original "Mellow Grand" setting is the only one I have found that minimizes (or, almost eliminates) the metallic buzzing of the strings.

Looks like I will be playing the EP3 instead, which has great clarity (in all of the piano sounds) as it displays none of that metallic nonsense.

My cheap Kawai EP3 sounds a lot better than the CA95!

CA95 is & EP3 is

I will jump in ...

My hearing is not 100%, but I can add something to this.

I tried the notes you mentioned. Yes, they have a certain underlying sound that I can (barely) hear but find it hard to describe. It sounds most to me like a cardboard box being slid across a waxed concrete floor. Very hard to discern, but once heard, it is there. After the initial impulse of sound, the whoosh appears and remains until the sound level is at 20-30% volume.

I sensed this whoosh on more keys than you mentioned. For example, the A below Middle C does not have it. And about half the notes from Middle C thru E an octave away has this low level sound.

Were someone to ask me, my two cents is this. I would look first to how the sound is rendered in the Firmware instead of the Kawai Ex Grand recordings.

I used headphones only. Sennheiser HD280. Volume at 50 and 65%. Key press at a medium feel. While playing two note chords, I could not hear the whoosh.

+++

I used to own a Ford Expedition. The four air inlets in the dashboard were chromed. The remainder of the dashboard was some very handsome plastic of a tan/gray/camel color, I hated them I even went to the Dealer and asked the Parts guys if these were available in normal plastic colors. They were not. After another 175k miles, I sold the car but them chrome thingies aggravated me every now and then when I drove it.

In the overall picture, these swooshes are inconsequential. I view this anomaly the same way as the inlets. It is there. But barely. The other great features of this piano far outweigh a swoosh I will rarely hear unless searching for it.

Thanks ...

I wonder that there are no complaints for the CA65, which I expected to use same technique aside of the spruce soundboard ?

I haven't heard anything like this in any with any of the sounds. I have heard a hammer whoosh that is quite pleasing and sounds like I'm playing my grand, but even that is so very slight that I wouldn't complain.

I have what you might call, hypersensitive hearing. I can hear the difference of a thick, thin, bright, rich, colorful tone and the Kawai 95 is a very, very rich sound.

I love the sound, and am hooked on the Concert Grand sound and the warm strings are my favorite. I sometimes layer them, and sometimes don't.

The only time I had an issue with the CA95 was when there was a cord in the back of the piano vibrating against the soundboard. I tacked the cord to the wall and it sounds as fine and pure as before.



Still in love with it.

Only time i've had an issue with a key noise is similar to justplay... the soundboard was doing its thing and my sunday paper was vibrating.... apart from that no issues. very happy.

No problems here on my CA65. Although I did find the standard presets of "hall" for Concert Grand 1 & 2 a bit "spacey" - too much echo, so I changed them to "room" and saved them.

Yes, i changed mine to lounge...

Still trying to figure out what it is I am hearing in the main "Concert Grand" sound that continues to be grating on the ears. This raspy / fuzzy sound could be in the speakers / soundboard / or, maybe even a cabinet vibration.

The Kawai EP3 appears to have far better piano sounds, with realistic live ambience in the reverb effects, and, superior speaker projection. So higher prices don't add up if the cheaper EP3 is able to outplay the "flagship" model.

Except it's happening when you use headphone and the speakers/soundboard are not functioning...

May I remind you of your initial post:



Surely you're contradicting yourself?



Different, yes. Better, definitely not.

The EP3's piano samples are rather dated compared to those of any other recent Kawai (i.e. anything with 88-key sampling), and when compared to the latest HI-XL sounds utilised by the CA95/CA65 it's absolutely no contest.



The EP3's reverb/effects processor was reasonably good when initially developed, but it's easily outclassed by the far more powerful tone generator used by the CA95/CA65. There's absolutely no way the EP3's processor could handle all the modelling and resonance effects, high resolution reverbs, and 256 notes polyphony offered by the CA95/CA65.



The EP3's speakers project upwards, largely due to the design of the instrument - this is true of almost all slab-type digital pianos. The CA95 speakers project down towards the floor, up through the top, and out towards the player's upper body. In addition, the instrument's soundboard speaker produces sound in all direction, but largely out the rear and front.

Sure, the EP3's speaker system is pretty good for a portable instrument, I agree. However, to suggest that its sound projection is superior to that of a CA95 is ridiculous.



Well, I doubt many would agree, but you're entitled to your opinion.

Kind regards.
James
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pv - do you think it might be time to call your dealer and see if you can exchange the CA-95 for something else? I saw your post on the other thread about you preferring the action on the EP3 to CA-95. With that and the issues you believe you are experiencing with the CA's piano sound it would seem that this has not been a successful purchase. Perhaps the store would credit you and you could choose something else?

Even with the issue of the grating "Concert Grand" sound, and, the pedals being too far forward, I am trying (like the devil) to adapt to these CA95 defects with compromise:

1) By choosing a different piano preset, and, avoiding the main "Concert Grand" sound, like a plague.

2) To sit in a more unconventional (and, less comfortable) fashion to use the sustain pedal.

These problems are far more tolerable than having the sustain pedal resonance issue on the Casio AP-620, and, the loose pedals (with side-to-side play) on the Kurzweil Mark Pro 3i. Good riddance to Casio & Kurzweil, as there were obviously better options to be had.

The Kawai EP3 is undoubtedly the best portable digital I have ever played (bar none) as it rivals boards costing several times as much.

The V-Piano still sits at the top (on a special pedestal of its own) since nothing else out there can match it.

We all **** our pants in the end, whether we own pianos, or, not.

I don't understand this.

pv88, your recent posts have an odd ring (not to say a raspy metallic sound) to them... One might even think you're out on some skew crusade. I'll second EssBrace's suggestion - if your V-Piano isn't enough for you and you really want a console in addition, why don't you look for one you are satisfied with?

PV, you haven't really made one convincing argument for why you would persist with your CA95. You pretty much state that you are delighted with your V-piano in most respects. Given the CA95 is about as sophisticated as console pianos get and it still isn't good enough, I'd say it's time to cut your losses and go back to the V-piano. There is little to be gained by starting a new thread every week about something that you don't like and can't be changed. The fact is, it just doesn't seem to be a good match for you.

Question: you seem pretty well off - why don't you get a nice acoustic piano?

I tried today at the dealer the CA95 and the CA65, I had special attention to the keys C# G# A.... Nothing special to report, but I also can note exclude that there is some special noise to hear. There was a slight difference which I could not really fix during the time of testing. There were different pianos in exercise, which were mixing with my play. May be at a quite environment the results would have been different.

Now, pv88 and McBuster have reported this special raspy sound. If its there, some trained musican should be able to hear it as well. If its not only on the two instruments, more reports during the next day should appear. It could also be falsified or verified by some software like TuneLabPro, which is free to a certain extent. May be also DPBSD could help. There are experts here in the forum who could assess the posiblity of DPBSD better then me.

pv88 would you mind to try to analyse this raspy sound with TuneLabPro, eg. to oberserve the differences for the spectrum between the tone C# and C ?

+1

Hi, I am an CA51 owner and am considering to update now to CA95 I repeatedly visited a big showrooom to make a few hour sound tests.

Trying out most of the leading instrument competitors of Kawai, Roland, Yamaha, Casio and some Kurzweil resulted for me the clear preference for the Kawai CA95 (even if I disregard budget concerns).

(Subjectively I felt a very convincing mechanical superiority of the of the GF action just as overwhelming, along with a great soundboard response. The price premium of 1K EUR for CA95 seemed just justified, being the sound clarity of CA65 not on the same level, even through heaphones I felt a little difference. There are some remaining questions though how the soundboard and old MIDI/3sensor will support or compromise my SW-pianos and SW-Harpsichords ...)

However during my visit in the showroom built up a small ad hoc discussion about an observation of a just present professional of some (for him allegedly very disturbing) noise he described as an "airy" or "puffing" by-tone out of the speakers of both CA63 and CA93. He attributed it to the speakers or amplifier in the sound producing path. He was able to hear it consistently with headphones as well (albeit somewhat weaker) - he didn't mention anything "metallic" character of the noise though.

My 55 yr. old hearing abilities are enough to hear out subtle pitch differences, but obviously are not sensitive enough anymore to detect all subtle dynamical nuances. Or my ears were possibly just tired after having many hours of car driving and in a noisy show-room, so I cannot be more specific to the problem.

I have been followed all of the present discussions here about CA95/95, let-off behavior with three sensors and pedal depth distance etc... So I would be very interested to read a satisfying conclusion to these noise issues. (The above complaints all seem to refer to very consinstently reproduceable and measurable issues, if there are some really in it at all.)

cheering: Attila