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There are no "issues". It is what it is. The sounds are how Kawai made them. If there's something you don't like about those sounds don't buy the piano! I really don't think there's a fault with this new series of CA instruments. What is being described is a characteristic.

temperament

From my previous post

"In the overall picture, these swooshes are inconsequential. It is there. But barely. The other great features of this piano far outweigh a swoosh I will rarely hear unless searching for it."

Change that to -never- hear ...

This anomaly is so hard to hear, and I am so --satisfied-- with the CA95 after owning a CA63 and CA93. Go play one somewhere, for as long as you want. I believe you will find it to be a very satisfying experience. I know I certainly do.

I look at this a bit differently. In very rough numbers. Let's say the Dealer buys a CA95 wholesale for $2500US. Ok ... Freight is about $200 and that brings the price down to $2300. The Distributor in Calif brings it in for $1800. Let's say the freight from Thailand is another $200 per. So that means Kawai is putting that out the door for about $1600. At a Cost of Sales of 65%, the Gross Profit might be $450 and actually designing, testing, producing this piano for maybe $1150.

What a Bargain this is ... A decent sounding unit that looks great by a company that only makes pianos ...

They have put together a very nice package indeed.

Thx, Jon,

I personally share the same positive enthusiasm about the CA95 as a product with You. If we consider, how much "Mass of Cumulative Human Creative Effort" could the Pharaos in ancient Egypt have reclaimed as their own with their Pyramids compared to how much we do while owning a single digital piano, it is in our favour by a large margin...

However a SW product must not necessarily be considered as fully completed and freezed in an "it is" status. Earlier I had the chance to participate a little in the process of developing SW pianos (and SW in general as a profession), so is very conceivable and nothing of outrageous for me to discover some issues in such an early phase of the product lifecycle. Such issues should be analysed and fixed/improved and if it is done in a transparent manner it is equally good for us consumer and for the fabricant as well. KAWAI put out some updates for their earlier models in the past and I think it will be no different with the present models - we can hope that we get so much improvement as possible packed in them.

Attila

Well, I think if shipping on these was that high, they would just locate their factories here and then place them next to big population centers. They don't, so I have to conclude that transportation/distribution costs are much lower than you are assuming.

I don't mean to take away too much from your point. The modern economy is amazing, but we can only get an idea of how well an industry is serving us by comparing to other industries we are familiar with: computers, furniture, appliances...all can be purchased for so little that if you started breaking down their costs generously (as you have) they appear to have to pay us to take their stuff.

"...Now, pv88 and McBuster have reported this special raspy sound. If its there, some trained musican should be able to hear it as well..."

pv88, ears, and their ability to hear, are not identical for the whole human population of Earth. Some resonances or interference patterns can be created in the ear itself, and anyway, hearing actually takes place in the brain. Also, though they are short, the nerves which conduct the sound information to the brain can influence what makes it to their destination. Additionally, there are some drugs (even OTC ones) that can make a problem for hearing, especially if they're taken in combination and the effects are added together.

It struck me that what you are describing sounds very like what some people hear in the early stages of hearing loss, or in a kind of tinnitus. Some cases of tinnitus are not a steady tone or buzz or clashing of gears--- though maybe most are--- but a shreddy, buzzing, rasping or crunching noise which is only heard when certain tones of sound are heard. How they're perceived also depends on how loud the sound is.

You might visit an audiologist to have your hearing evaluated, or do some online research to learn how you can protect your hearing for the long term. Anyway, it doesn't seem that this is the right keyboard for you, and you would be wise to undo the deal, if you can. If that's not possible, you might use the keyboard as a MIDI controller to control Ivory or another outboard sound.

If you can narrow it down to certain frequencies which bother you (they might be among the upper partials; even ultrasonic or subsonic sound energy can trigger an effect in the hearing), you might see if a notch filter or comb filter gives you relief. Some people hear these effects when playing acoustic piano. It's not something that a tuner can fix or that changing the room's acoustics can help, and of course they typically accuse the piano. But, the solution is: a different model of piano.

Wow Jeff, that is a great contribution. Brain- ear interaction and human hearing defects should be taken into acount even if McBuster and temprament reports sound to point to a similar problem as pv88 has. Now, even more I am convinced that this problem should be analyzed by acoustic experts and audiologist support, using some technical equipment to qualify and quantify this effect, but may be there are more simple problems causing the defect, like none well controlled mechanical boundary conditions on the spruce soundboard, causing at different notes different modes with different soundboard boundary motion. Or even there could be more simple effects, like some interaction with some furniture resonances in the room the ca95 is operated. This could be rather simply excluded by changing the position of the piano for the furniture interactions. Do not know how the sound board is fixed and don't want to give some advice to work on it, but a Kawai technician could have a look on it.

@EssBrace,

Thanks for your reply, as it is true there are no real "faults" to be found. It is in my perceptions of a few details that has colored things a bit.

I now have come to the realization that the piano has just a few notes (in the "Concert Grand" preset) that I am perceiving a raspy / metallic sound, and, if I choose "Concert Grand 2" or another preset, it is minimized or negated. It is obvious that many of the piano presets have bright tones, to begin with.

Perhaps I have been too hard on myself in the search for perfect sounding samples in a digital, which apparently does not exist. I am now just enjoying the CA95 for what it is, a very good representation of the Kawai EX Concert Grand.

The CA95 is still one of the best digital console models to be had.

@Jeff,

It is very interesting that you mentioned tinnitus, as I do in fact have it myself, in the form of a very high pitched ringing that is always present, although in normal circumstances I do not notice it as much during the day, but only at times when things are very quiet, or, at night. Have had this ailment since I was very young as it was more than likely a result of the middle ear infections I had as a kid since I used to swim a lot. Had to undergo surgery to have the ears drained a few times and had small tubes put into the ear drums to relieve excessive fluid, etc.

As for the raspy notes in the CA95, I think I have narrowed it down to the samples themselves (ruling out any speaker / soundboard / cabinet vibrations), as mentioned in my other reply above, to EssBrace.

My search for perfection has ended with digital pianos I now own, as I should really get down to the business of enjoying them for what they are... fine musical instruments, to be played.

Also, for everyone that misunderstood my perceptions of the sounds I hear in the CA95, including the other pedal depth issue, my apologies on that.

Don't let my "critical" reviews get in the way of enjoying your pianos, as I tend to point out things that may not be an issue with others.

Extra note:

I think I can lay these perceived issues to rest now, as the CA95 is a great instrument that should be enjoyed.

pv 88 Congratulations to you that you are finally satisfied. I have read you last point and knowing about the sound of CA95, I can understand very well. The special on the Kawai sound for me is, that there is some base tone, then less in the middle (probably 2nd and 4th harmonics), but at the higher end a lot of harmonics, probably much more then on Yamaha and Roland pianos. Would be interesting to see some spectrum analysis. But this would well explain some interferences which are dominant.

I have been very extensively investigating the effect of temperaments (historical and self constructed) on subjective musical perception in the past 3-4 years, and have so much experience with elusive physical perception issues, that I am now very catious at judging some phenomena. It is most subjective and can change dramatically with time. What you percieve as disturbing on one day (overtones; 3d interval difference from the ideal), you can hear the same phenomenon as real or spicy and inspiring tension on another one.

Once you get accustumed to one flavor (temperament, instrument sound), it can become boring with time or the opposite, you cannot swap to another one easily.
If you focus to the details, You can very easily get obsessed with nuances (I've got).

Once I have heared the anecdote about the phsysicits Helmholtz, who while intensively working on the theory of overtones complained that he couldn't go to a concert because he wasn't be able to hear any music but the overtones only...

Than there is the effect of tiredness: if you are tired, your perception can be compromised (resulting in smoothing out disturbances), but at the same your whole compensation abilities too (amplifiying anomalies). You will be let with a complete other combination of accoustic information processing apparatus.

It is the whole rich world of sound perception. (It is similar with visual percepiton as well, eg. if you wath an old pre-WWII colour movie at first you see the very comressed flat colours but after a short while your brain compensates and you forget it.)

As I have said, I personally was NOT ABLE to hear out anything bad with CA95 (although definitely with CA65 where some harmonic distortions were present even some with good headphones (Sennheiser HD650 and AKG271).

With CA95 I could very well here metallic overtones and resonances with the mighty SoundBoard along with very real vibrations, but the result was not more for me as the personality of the individual keys.

(I am just wondering, whether the soundboard/amplifier is trimmed to the built-in sound synthesis and how it can work togeeher with external sound sources/instruments, whether there are some untamed interferences?).

Attila

@Attila/termperament:

As there are strong indications that our brain works - at least in parts belonging to sensing - on quantum mechanical level (therewith some speculations that it works already as a quantum computer) - see R.Penrose, the emperors new mind -, and is highly adoptable and much more capable as any other human build logic, I sign what you have written. You probably nailed the problem with your discussion. We can get out the next day with a complete different opinion, while sensing exactly the same phenomenons.

By the way, you mentioned the headphone. I had yesterday a surprising result, while I played a digital over and w/o headphone. The headphone was a kind of cheap thing, and while I was jumping from the middle octave to one octave higher, my brain was expecting to sit on a complete different instrument, so much the sound characteristics was changed. Very funny, at the first glance I was thinking I don't like this piano. Using it over the build in speaker was then a quit normal experience w/o any none-regularities and with a nice sound.

@Jeff,

I still continue to hear the raspy /buzzing sounds on the CA95:

Everything you have mentioned above makes sense to me as I think that the tinnitus I have (which is a very high pitched ringing sound) may very well be the culprit as to why I am hearing the raspy piano tones. It appears to be most noticeable when the volume is set higher on the piano, as at lower volumes it is not quite as pronounced and things are smoothed out a bit when using the "Mellow Grand" presets and the "Mellow 1 & 2" voicing settings. This metallic sound is somewhat grating to the ears, but only with a given range of notes that are mostly above middle C.

This definitely has me concerned now (as for my ears / hearing) as I may look into seeing an ear doctor to see if my current tinnitus might be triggering the issue with sounds I am hearing.

Could it be that I am losing my hearing, or, is it just that the metallic sounds of only the Kawai CA95 sound "raspy" to me, whereas another digital might not sound the same way?

PV, why don't you record the offending notes, along with good notes around them, and let us be the judge of how raspy it is?

@ando,

Thanks for your suggestion in making a recording, as I will try to do that here, shortly. Will record the CA95 with a stereo audio cable into Audacity. Perhaps it will be of some help to determine exactly what it is that I am hearing.

And, there is no doubt that I am perceiving the same raspy sounds through headphones, as well as the built-in soundboard speaker system.

pv88, I would also recommend using the instrument's built-in USB audio functions to record directly to a MP3/WAV file.

Kind regards,
James
x

Here is the test recording from the CA95:

https://www.box.com/s/28b8un6ypza78g0gyhuz

Recording notes - [the playing starts at the 13 second mark]

Have used the default "Concert Grand" piano sound with volume set at three increments (or, dots) on the CA95. Recorded the audio directly into "Audacity" with a stereo audio cable. Here is what was played:

1) A scale from C to C played legato, starting at one octave below middle C and going to one octave higher than middle C, and, back to the low C.

Each white key is struck ONE time, and, every black key is struck THREE times to emphasize the black key resonance.

Have determined that I hear more of the raspy / buzzing sound mainly on the black keys, not the white keys.

2) Two sets of all black key arpeggios, the first set is played without the sustain pedal, and, the second set is played with pedal.

3) A set of all black key staccato notes.

Isn't it relatively easy to hear this raspy / buzzing quality in the black keys?

I do find it to be rather grating and annoying at times.

Sounds fine to me.

James
x

I'm no expert, but I can just hear it on some notes. That said it has far less raspyness than the Steinway VST I muck about with.

@James,

If you don't hear anything, then what exactly am I hearing?

What is really odd is that I tend to hear the raspy quality more when playing through the speakers / soundboard as compared with the headphones. It is only when I push the volume above three-quarters maximum then the buzzing almost fades out, or, away.

However, the piano is almost too loud (for my ears) at close to maximum volume, so I have to use lower settings, however, anything around 50% volume (or, less) is where the fuzziness is most pronounced.

Must be due to my tinnitus (i.e., ringing in the ears), as I will have to get checked out and see if I might have developed some hearing loss over the years. Need to try and find a hearing specialist.

Also, would like for some other folks to listen to the test recording to see what can be determined.

Extra note:

Have also determined that the overall clarity and harmonic resonance (including decay) appears to be far better with every piano sound that is designated with "2" as compared with the first (or, original) sound.

"Concert Grand 2" would definitely be my choice in the first movement of Beethoven's "Moonlight" sonata, since the original "Concert Grand" sound does not have as full a sustain when striking the first g-sharp melody note in the sonata, as I have compared them directly.

Just in striking that solo g-sharp melody note repeatedly (by itself) one can hear the improved resonance and decay (length of sustain) in the "Concert Grand 2" preset as compared to "Concert Grand."

I thought the newer "Concert Grand" sound was supposed to be the improved one, not the other way around?

Test this for yourself when striking the g-sharp melody note (in the sonata) as "2" is better than "1."