Welcome to the Piano World Piano Forums
Over 2.5 million posts about pianos, digital pianos, and all types of keyboard instruments
Join the World's Largest Community of Piano Lovers (it's free)
It's Fun to Play the Piano ... Please Pass It On!

SEARCH
Piano Forums & Piano World
Find a Professional
Our Classified Ads
Find Piano Professionals-

*Piano Dealers - Piano Stores
*Piano Tuners
*Piano Teachers
*Piano Movers
*Piano Restorations
*Piano Manufacturers

Advertise on Piano World

What's Hot!!
Posting Pictures on the Forums
-------------------
Forums RULES & HELP
-------------------
ADVERTISE on Piano World
(125ad)
Piano Life Saver - Dampp Chaser
Dampp Chaser Piano Life Saver
(ad)
Piano Buyer Guide
Piano Buyer Fall 2017
Who's Online Now
132 registered members (Agent88, amad23, AdrianR, ajames, Almaviva, 36 invisible), 1,436 guests, and 2 spiders.
Key: Admin, Global Mod, Mod
(ad)
Estonia Pianos
Estonia Pianos
Quick Links to Useful Piano & Music Resources
Quick Links:
*Advertise On Piano World
*Free Piano Newsletter
*Online Piano Recitals
*Piano Recitals Index
*Piano & Music Accessories
*Live Piano Venues
*Music School Listings
* Buying a Piano
*Buying A Acoustic Piano
*Buying a Digital Piano
*Pianos for Sale
*Sell Your Piano
*How Old is My Piano?
*Directory/Site Map
*Virtual Piano
*Music Word Search
*Piano Videos
*Virtual Piano Chords & Scales
Previous Thread
Next Thread
Print Thread
Page 1 of 2 1 2
#1982166 - 11/03/12 10:58 AM Homemade Piano Action  
Joined: Sep 2012
Posts: 126
TheKeysAssassin Offline
Full Member
TheKeysAssassin  Offline
Full Member

Joined: Sep 2012
Posts: 126
Kansas City, MO
So, yesterday, i went to metro hardwood, picked up some wood and bought a coping saw. Man my arms are sore!

The video is here
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v8T8slJ6rnI&feature=plcp


-Nathon Lee
YouTube Channel - http://www.youtube.com/user/JleewSongs
Yamaha P-35b
(ad 800)
PTG Journal
PTG Journal
#1982197 - 11/03/12 12:00 PM Re: Homemade Piano Action [Re: TheKeysAssassin]  
Joined: Sep 2012
Posts: 126
TheKeysAssassin Offline
Full Member
TheKeysAssassin  Offline
Full Member

Joined: Sep 2012
Posts: 126
Kansas City, MO
I just realized im missing the backcheck!


-Nathon Lee
YouTube Channel - http://www.youtube.com/user/JleewSongs
Yamaha P-35b
#1982210 - 11/03/12 12:29 PM Re: Homemade Piano Action [Re: TheKeysAssassin]  
Joined: Mar 2008
Posts: 4,263
Silverwood Pianos Offline
4000 Post Club Member
Silverwood Pianos  Offline
4000 Post Club Member

Joined: Mar 2008
Posts: 4,263
Vancouver B. C. Canada
Well,
You're missing a few more components that just the back check.
check out photo number six of this album.

There has to be some type of let-off for the jack to escape, for example.

AD Lexow action


Dan Silverwood
www.silverwoodpianos.com
http://silverwoodpianos.blogspot.com/
http://www.facebook.com/SilverwoodPianosDotCom
"If you think it's expensive to hire a professional to do the job, wait until you hire an amateur."
#1982321 - 11/03/12 05:38 PM Re: Homemade Piano Action [Re: TheKeysAssassin]  
Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 3,167
rysowers Offline
3000 Post Club Member
rysowers  Offline
3000 Post Club Member

Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 3,167
Olympia, WA
Congrats on your project! I'm sure you've already learned a lot. I've never tried making one from scratch. If I did, it would be fun to make one of those giant ones. The Emil Fries Piano Hospital and School for the Blind in Vancouver Washington had a great one - it must have been 3 or 4 times the size of a normal one. The key was at least two feet long! Talk about inertia problems though...!

Here's a little picture I found of a large scale Renner model:
[Linked Image]


Ryan Sowers,
Pianova Piano Service
Olympia, WA
www.pianova.net
(ad)
Piano & Music Accessories
piano accessories music gifts tuning and moving equipment
#1982374 - 11/03/12 07:15 PM Re: Homemade Piano Action [Re: TheKeysAssassin]  
Joined: Sep 2012
Posts: 126
TheKeysAssassin Offline
Full Member
TheKeysAssassin  Offline
Full Member

Joined: Sep 2012
Posts: 126
Kansas City, MO
Well, i decided to tear it apart and start again. I learned that as long as the hammer has enough inertia to carry itself to the string, there is no need for the jack to have a let off button (if there is a back check, but why wouldn't there be?)I appreciate the feedback!


-Nathon Lee
YouTube Channel - http://www.youtube.com/user/JleewSongs
Yamaha P-35b
#1982389 - 11/03/12 08:12 PM Re: Homemade Piano Action [Re: TheKeysAssassin]  
Joined: Mar 2008
Posts: 4,263
Silverwood Pianos Offline
4000 Post Club Member
Silverwood Pianos  Offline
4000 Post Club Member

Joined: Mar 2008
Posts: 4,263
Vancouver B. C. Canada

How about something for the mallet to strike?....the straight piece of a coat hanger or something. It would have to set it into the base....


Dan Silverwood
www.silverwoodpianos.com
http://silverwoodpianos.blogspot.com/
http://www.facebook.com/SilverwoodPianosDotCom
"If you think it's expensive to hire a professional to do the job, wait until you hire an amateur."
#1982443 - 11/04/12 12:13 AM Re: Homemade Piano Action [Re: TheKeysAssassin]  
Joined: Mar 2005
Posts: 2,726
Grandpianoman Offline
2000 Post Club Member
Grandpianoman  Offline
2000 Post Club Member

Joined: Mar 2005
Posts: 2,726
Portland, Oregon

#1982454 - 11/04/12 02:20 AM Re: Homemade Piano Action [Re: TheKeysAssassin]  
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 2,758
Gadzar Offline
2000 Post Club Member
Gadzar  Offline
2000 Post Club Member

Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 2,758
Mexico City
Really amazing!

First time I see the Hickman action.

Are there any pianos already using the Hickman Action?

Is there a vertical version of the Hickman action?


Last edited by Gadzar; 11/04/12 02:21 AM.

Rafael Melo
Piano Technician
rafaelmelo@afinacionpianos.com.mx

Serving Mexico City and suburbs.

http://www.afinacionpianos.com.mx
#1982456 - 11/04/12 02:42 AM Re: Homemade Piano Action [Re: TheKeysAssassin]  
Joined: Mar 2005
Posts: 2,726
Grandpianoman Offline
2000 Post Club Member
Grandpianoman  Offline
2000 Post Club Member

Joined: Mar 2005
Posts: 2,726
Portland, Oregon
Hello Rafael,

I think there were a few made in the late 1920's. About 5-6 years ago, one was for sale, but I don't know what happened to it. They were only in grands as I recall.

The design was by Dr.Clarence Hickman, who was working for the Ampico Co, who made the reproducing roll player systems in the 1920's. He was trying to simplify the design so that there would be less adjustments needed etc. It never made it into production, other than a few prototypes.

Last edited by Grandpianoman; 11/04/12 02:43 AM. Reason: correction
#1982458 - 11/04/12 02:47 AM Re: Homemade Piano Action [Re: TheKeysAssassin]  
Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 25,559
BDB Offline
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member
BDB  Offline
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member

Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 25,559
Oakland
It would probably be easier to make using composites.


Semipro Tech
#1982460 - 11/04/12 02:50 AM Re: Homemade Piano Action [Re: TheKeysAssassin]  
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 2,758
Gadzar Offline
2000 Post Club Member
Gadzar  Offline
2000 Post Club Member

Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 2,758
Mexico City
I wonder why not! Apparently it is far superior to the "old" Christofori/Erard's design.

Edit: I am talking about the Hickman action not going to production.

Last edited by Gadzar; 11/04/12 02:51 AM.

Rafael Melo
Piano Technician
rafaelmelo@afinacionpianos.com.mx

Serving Mexico City and suburbs.

http://www.afinacionpianos.com.mx
#1982463 - 11/04/12 03:06 AM Re: Homemade Piano Action [Re: TheKeysAssassin]  
Joined: Mar 2008
Posts: 9,230
Olek Offline
9000 Post Club Member
Olek  Offline
9000 Post Club Member

Joined: Mar 2008
Posts: 9,230
France
can't see how the pianist know if the hammer have the right energy.

the advantage of the roller and jack is the feedback provided to the pianist.

just before the roller leaves the jack, the pianist have been able to correct and to mold the energy of the last moments of propulsion.

first part ; acceleration
second part : manipulation of stroke because of the tactile feedback.

Generally speaking, we try to limit the duration of the friction moment, so the inertia of the hammer is more perceived, the pianist need feedback while he accelerate the hammer, if there is then a moment where he can again change something, then the control on tone is optimum.

Apparently, with a straight even acceleration as the fall of a weight, the roller leaves the jack very soon, before Forte, I believe that the pianist is adbsorbing the initial brake of jack and drop friction to accelerate then from there, so most of the energy is provided by the weight of the arm, and acceleration control by the wrist and the fingers. To play like this , some predicteable letoff resistance may be present.

The energy concentrates (bend) in the shank and the key, then the way it is freed is what allows tone manipulation.

A good pianist have a very relaxed hand that perceive all the feedback from the roller, that is how the melody can be emphased, you cannot have the fingers falling with differnt speed , but you can modify the speed of the last moments.

ALso a note impacted a little too strong can be breaked/slowed a little because of the feedback during letoff

may be that impact action provide similar sensations but I doubt of it.

Possibly a good action for celesta or glockenspiel.

I d be curious to see one anyway.


Last edited by Kamin; 11/04/12 07:51 AM.

Professional of the profession.
Foo Foo specialist
I wish to add some kind and sensitive phrase but nothing comes to mind.!
#1982493 - 11/04/12 06:14 AM Re: Homemade Piano Action [Re: TheKeysAssassin]  
Joined: Jun 2010
Posts: 2,627
Loren D Offline
2000 Post Club Member
Loren D  Offline
2000 Post Club Member

Joined: Jun 2010
Posts: 2,627
PA
Seems to me there would be significantly less friction at the point of letoff. I bet it would be wonderful for pianissimo expression. As a pianist, I often judge a piano by how easily it can be played and controlled softly. The jack/knuckle system is a constant problem point where friction and wear are concerned. I'd love to play a piano that had a Hickman action to see how it feels.


DiGiorgi Piano Service
http://www.digiorgipiano.com
#1982511 - 11/04/12 07:54 AM Re: Homemade Piano Action [Re: Gadzar]  
Joined: Dec 2003
Posts: 338
Robert Scott Offline
Full Member
Robert Scott  Offline
Full Member

Joined: Dec 2003
Posts: 338
Minnesota
Originally Posted by Gadzar
I wonder why not! Apparently it is far superior to the "old" Christofori/Erard's design.

Edit: I am talking about the Hickman action not going to production.

I'll bet it was a manufacturing and maintenance problem to have the hammer, action parts, and keystick all pinned together so that you can't remove the hammer without unpinning something.


Robert Scott
Hopkins, Minnesota
http://www.tunelab-world.com
#1982525 - 11/04/12 08:52 AM Re: Homemade Piano Action [Re: TheKeysAssassin]  
Joined: Mar 2008
Posts: 9,230
Olek Offline
9000 Post Club Member
Olek  Offline
9000 Post Club Member

Joined: Mar 2008
Posts: 9,230
France
I am unsure it apply, but Pfeiffer demonstrated that a linked action is less efficient, that the hammer have to be free.

here it seem to be, sort of, but all the intermediate part have to be put in motion, and the hammer pin is not fixed in position.

Are there 2 sorts of propulsion? one for light playing or repetition, and one for full blow ?


Professional of the profession.
Foo Foo specialist
I wish to add some kind and sensitive phrase but nothing comes to mind.!
#1982896 - 11/05/12 08:12 AM Re: Homemade Piano Action [Re: TheKeysAssassin]  
Joined: Nov 2008
Posts: 5,772
UnrightTooner Offline
5000 Post Club Member
UnrightTooner  Offline
5000 Post Club Member

Joined: Nov 2008
Posts: 5,772
Bradford County, PA
Originally Posted by TecFlip
Well, i decided to tear it apart and start again. I learned that as long as the hammer has enough inertia to carry itself to the string, there is no need for the jack to have a let off button (if there is a back check, but why wouldn't there be?)I appreciate the feedback!


Lokk closely at what is happening at about 0:09 in your video. If the hammer was hitting a string at this point, you would have what is called "double-striking". The hammer would bounce back and forth between the string and the jack. That is why you need the jack to "let-off' from pushing the hammer (by way of the hammer shank butt) and for the hammer to be stopped by the backcheck, so that the butt won't hit the jack even though it has "tripped" at the let-off point.


Jeff Deutschle
Part-Time Tuner
Who taught the first chicken how to peck?
#1982899 - 11/05/12 08:21 AM Re: Homemade Piano Action [Re: TheKeysAssassin]  
Joined: Nov 2008
Posts: 5,772
UnrightTooner Offline
5000 Post Club Member
UnrightTooner  Offline
5000 Post Club Member

Joined: Nov 2008
Posts: 5,772
Bradford County, PA
All:

When I look at the Hickman action, the first thing I notice is that it works on the "over-centered" principle, like the latch on old suitcases or like locking your knee or elbow. There is a lot of strain involved with this sort of thing. Mathematically the leverage becomes infinite. In reality something just "gives". In this case I think the pinning would take a real beating and not last long.


Jeff Deutschle
Part-Time Tuner
Who taught the first chicken how to peck?
#1982932 - 11/05/12 09:14 AM Re: Homemade Piano Action [Re: UnrightTooner]  
Joined: Dec 2003
Posts: 338
Robert Scott Offline
Full Member
Robert Scott  Offline
Full Member

Joined: Dec 2003
Posts: 338
Minnesota
Originally Posted by UnrightTooner
All:

When I look at the Hickman action, the first thing I notice is that it works on the "over-centered" principle, like the latch on old suitcases or like locking your knee or elbow. There is a lot of strain involved with this sort of thing. Mathematically the leverage becomes infinite. In reality something just "gives". In this case I think the pinning would take a real beating and not last long.

I don't see how the forces on any pin in the Hickman action would be greater than the force on a normal hammer shank to flange center pin or the jack center pin. The force would be infinite if one end of the red jack were constrained from moving. But whenever that jack is in a straight line the upper end is always free to move because the hammer can move, subject only to the inertia of the hammer. This is no different from a normal jack pushing a knuckle.


Robert Scott
Hopkins, Minnesota
http://www.tunelab-world.com
#1982958 - 11/05/12 10:16 AM Re: Homemade Piano Action [Re: Robert Scott]  
Joined: Nov 2008
Posts: 5,772
UnrightTooner Offline
5000 Post Club Member
UnrightTooner  Offline
5000 Post Club Member

Joined: Nov 2008
Posts: 5,772
Bradford County, PA
Originally Posted by Robert Scott
Originally Posted by UnrightTooner
All:

When I look at the Hickman action, the first thing I notice is that it works on the "over-centered" principle, like the latch on old suitcases or like locking your knee or elbow. There is a lot of strain involved with this sort of thing. Mathematically the leverage becomes infinite. In reality something just "gives". In this case I think the pinning would take a real beating and not last long.

I don't see how the forces on any pin in the Hickman action would be greater than the force on a normal hammer shank to flange center pin or the jack center pin. The force would be infinite if one end of the red jack were constrained from moving. But whenever that jack is in a straight line the upper end is always free to move because the hammer can move, subject only to the inertia of the hammer. This is no different from a normal jack pushing a knuckle.


Mr. Scott:

I see this intuitively; hopefully I can explain it logically.

[Linked Image]

Part 41 and part 13 form the "over-centering" hinge that concerns me. The centerpins, which are parts 10, 12 and 15, form an obtuse triangle. This triangle is illustrated by dashed lines. As centerpin 12 approaches the line described by centerpin 10 and 15, the more centerpin 12 must move to affect any increase in distance between centrpin 10 and 15. In other words the leverage changes. At the point of over-centering (when centerpins 10, 12 and 15 describe a straight line) the ratio of the movement of centerpin 12 to the increase in distance between centerpins 10 and 15 becomes infinite.

This is of course happening while the entire mechanism is being lifted and let-off occurs. In reality the bushing for centerpin 12 would simply "give" rather than be subjected to infinite forces. And it is this "giving" at let-off that raises a red flag in my mind. Conventional actions do not over-center and do not have this large change in leverage that can only be alleviated by something "giving".

It may be a non-issue, I don’t know. Thanks for showing the interest to ask. smile




Jeff Deutschle
Part-Time Tuner
Who taught the first chicken how to peck?
#1982979 - 11/05/12 11:09 AM Re: Homemade Piano Action [Re: UnrightTooner]  
Joined: Apr 2010
Posts: 1,699
kpembrook Online content
1000 Post Club Member
kpembrook  Online Content
1000 Post Club Member

Joined: Apr 2010
Posts: 1,699
Michigan
Quote
It may be a non-issue, I don’t know. Thanks for showing the interest to ask.


It is a non-issue. This is not a theoretical action but a real one that was in production but fell victim to the Great Depression. Technically it worked just fine and there are instruments with those actions still playing today. They were put into player-grands -- I think partly because those pianos received much higher usage wear and also people would turn up the tempo and then complain that conventional actions couldn't keep up. The Hickman can't be outplayed and stays almost permanently in regulation.

There are links on the page to other info about the Hickman.


Keith Akins, RPT
Piano Technologist
USA Distributor for Isaac Cadenza hammers and Profundo Bass Strings
Supporting Piano Owners D-I-Y piano tuning and repair
#1983017 - 11/05/12 12:32 PM Re: Homemade Piano Action [Re: UnrightTooner]  
Joined: Dec 2003
Posts: 338
Robert Scott Offline
Full Member
Robert Scott  Offline
Full Member

Joined: Dec 2003
Posts: 338
Minnesota
Originally Posted by UnrightTooner
Originally Posted by Robert Scott
Originally Posted by UnrightTooner
All:

When I look at the Hickman action, the first thing I notice is that it works on the "over-centered" principle, like the latch on old suitcases or like locking your knee or elbow. There is a lot of strain involved with this sort of thing. Mathematically the leverage becomes infinite. In reality something just "gives". In this case I think the pinning would take a real beating and not last long.

I don't see how the forces on any pin in the Hickman action would be greater than the force on a normal hammer shank to flange center pin or the jack center pin. The force would be infinite if one end of the red jack were constrained from moving. But whenever that jack is in a straight line the upper end is always free to move because the hammer can move, subject only to the inertia of the hammer. This is no different from a normal jack pushing a knuckle.


Mr. Scott:

I see this intuitively; hopefully I can explain it logically.

[Linked Image]

Part 41 and part 13 form the "over-centering" hinge that concerns me. The centerpins, which are parts 10, 12 and 15, form an obtuse triangle. This triangle is illustrated by dashed lines. As centerpin 12 approaches the line described by centerpin 10 and 15, the more centerpin 12 must move to affect any increase in distance between centrpin 10 and 15. In other words the leverage changes. At the point of over-centering (when centerpins 10, 12 and 15 describe a straight line) the ratio of the movement of centerpin 12 to the increase in distance between centerpins 10 and 15 becomes infinite.

This is of course happening while the entire mechanism is being lifted and let-off occurs. In reality the bushing for centerpin 12 would simply "give" rather than be subjected to infinite forces. And it is this "giving" at let-off that raises a red flag in my mind. Conventional actions do not over-center and do not have this large change in leverage that can only be alleviated by something "giving".

It may be a non-issue, I don’t know. Thanks for showing the interest to ask. smile



I agree with your analysis of the ratio of forces, but I do not agree with the conclusion that the centerpin bushing will be subjected to arbitrarily high forces and will have to give. If centerpins 10 and 15 were both constrained so that the distance between them could not change then a very small force exerted at centerpin 12 could indeed generate nearly infinite forces in all three centers. But the distance between centers 10 and 15 are not tightly constrained. They will always move long before the bushings in the centers gets crushed, as you seem to predict. About the only damaging condition I can see is if surface 40 presses on surface 42 after center 12 has gone as far to the left as it can go. But that is prevented from happening by the hammer rest. The only time 40 and 42 touch is when center 12 has moved well out of the infinite ratio zone.


Robert Scott
Hopkins, Minnesota
http://www.tunelab-world.com
#1983035 - 11/05/12 01:31 PM Re: Homemade Piano Action [Re: TheKeysAssassin]  
Joined: Mar 2005
Posts: 2,726
Grandpianoman Offline
2000 Post Club Member
Grandpianoman  Offline
2000 Post Club Member

Joined: Mar 2005
Posts: 2,726
Portland, Oregon
I have never heard a reproducer with this action, only read about it over the years.

How difficult would it be to create this action with all composites, and what would the cost factor be? I wonder if it also superior for normal pianos?

#1983050 - 11/05/12 01:56 PM Re: Homemade Piano Action [Re: Robert Scott]  
Joined: Nov 2008
Posts: 5,772
UnrightTooner Offline
5000 Post Club Member
UnrightTooner  Offline
5000 Post Club Member

Joined: Nov 2008
Posts: 5,772
Bradford County, PA
Originally Posted by Robert Scott
Originally Posted by UnrightTooner
Originally Posted by Robert Scott
Originally Posted by UnrightTooner
All:

When I look at the Hickman action, the first thing I notice is that it works on the "over-centered" principle, like the latch on old suitcases or like locking your knee or elbow. There is a lot of strain involved with this sort of thing. Mathematically the leverage becomes infinite. In reality something just "gives". In this case I think the pinning would take a real beating and not last long.

I don't see how the forces on any pin in the Hickman action would be greater than the force on a normal hammer shank to flange center pin or the jack center pin. The force would be infinite if one end of the red jack were constrained from moving. But whenever that jack is in a straight line the upper end is always free to move because the hammer can move, subject only to the inertia of the hammer. This is no different from a normal jack pushing a knuckle.


Mr. Scott:

I see this intuitively; hopefully I can explain it logically.

[Linked Image]

Part 41 and part 13 form the "over-centering" hinge that concerns me. The centerpins, which are parts 10, 12 and 15, form an obtuse triangle. This triangle is illustrated by dashed lines. As centerpin 12 approaches the line described by centerpin 10 and 15, the more centerpin 12 must move to affect any increase in distance between centrpin 10 and 15. In other words the leverage changes. At the point of over-centering (when centerpins 10, 12 and 15 describe a straight line) the ratio of the movement of centerpin 12 to the increase in distance between centerpins 10 and 15 becomes infinite.

This is of course happening while the entire mechanism is being lifted and let-off occurs. In reality the bushing for centerpin 12 would simply "give" rather than be subjected to infinite forces. And it is this "giving" at let-off that raises a red flag in my mind. Conventional actions do not over-center and do not have this large change in leverage that can only be alleviated by something "giving".

It may be a non-issue, I don’t know. Thanks for showing the interest to ask. smile



I agree with your analysis of the ratio of forces, but I do not agree with the conclusion that the centerpin bushing will be subjected to arbitrarily high forces and will have to give. If centerpins 10 and 15 were both constrained so that the distance between them could not change then a very small force exerted at centerpin 12 could indeed generate nearly infinite forces in all three centers. But the distance between centers 10 and 15 are not tightly constrained. They will always move long before the bushings in the centers gets crushed, as you seem to predict. About the only damaging condition I can see is if surface 40 presses on surface 42 after center 12 has gone as far to the left as it can go. But that is prevented from happening by the hammer rest. The only time 40 and 42 touch is when center 12 has moved well out of the infinite ratio zone.


Mr. Scott:

Thanks for the reply and thanks for confiming my analysis. It mostly is just a "red flag" in my thinking. If I had never heard of a piston engine, I might have the same concerns. Just because something is free to move does not mean it won't have inertial resistance. And what if something did get in the way? On a piston engine, valves can float. On a piano, hammers can block against the strings or catch on the backcheck. I could see the result being like the wind catching a screen door without a safety chain.

I do wonder how the action would actually behave. There may have been a reason that it did not catch on more than just not being known or accepted. There is something wonderful about the whole let-off/aftertouch feel. Like typing on a keyboard. Imagine a purely touch screen!


Jeff Deutschle
Part-Time Tuner
Who taught the first chicken how to peck?
#1983076 - 11/05/12 03:09 PM Re: Homemade Piano Action [Re: TheKeysAssassin]  
Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 25,559
BDB Offline
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member
BDB  Offline
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member

Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 25,559
Oakland
I suspect that the C-shaped piece was the weak point of that action.

If I were to try to replicate it, at least for a prototype, I would look into 3-D printing.


Semipro Tech
#1983341 - 11/06/12 08:17 AM Re: Homemade Piano Action [Re: TheKeysAssassin]  
Joined: Nov 2008
Posts: 5,772
UnrightTooner Offline
5000 Post Club Member
UnrightTooner  Offline
5000 Post Club Member

Joined: Nov 2008
Posts: 5,772
Bradford County, PA
I keep waiting for the OP to nudge us back to the OT. In the mean time...

There is something I don't understand about this action. After the note is struck and the hammer is held by the backcheck, what ensures that the parts reset for the next blow after the key is released? The spring pushes the hammer butt up so the action CAN over-center back the other way for the next blow, but why would it? Why couldn't it find a place of equilibrium without the action resetting? Maybe in normal play momentum ensures the action resets. But if humidity causes a sluggish action...


Jeff Deutschle
Part-Time Tuner
Who taught the first chicken how to peck?
#1983897 - 11/07/12 07:26 PM Re: Homemade Piano Action [Re: TheKeysAssassin]  
Joined: Sep 2012
Posts: 126
TheKeysAssassin Offline
Full Member
TheKeysAssassin  Offline
Full Member

Joined: Sep 2012
Posts: 126
Kansas City, MO
i am going to sound like a very big noob, but what is OP and OT? also, on the hickman action, it seems that the "Elbow" or joing in the middle of the jack-like object could seize up and not function. smirk


-Nathon Lee
YouTube Channel - http://www.youtube.com/user/JleewSongs
Yamaha P-35b
#1983908 - 11/07/12 08:57 PM Re: Homemade Piano Action [Re: TheKeysAssassin]  
Joined: Nov 2010
Posts: 5,278
ando Offline
5000 Post Club Member
ando  Offline
5000 Post Club Member

Joined: Nov 2010
Posts: 5,278
Melbourne, Australia
Originally Posted by TecFlip
i am going to sound like a very big noob, but what is OP and OT? also, on the hickman action, it seems that the "Elbow" or joing in the middle of the jack-like object could seize up and not function. smirk


OP = Original Post or Original Poster (which is you in this case)
OT = Off Topic.

#1983919 - 11/07/12 09:36 PM Re: Homemade Piano Action [Re: ando]  
Joined: Sep 2012
Posts: 126
TheKeysAssassin Offline
Full Member
TheKeysAssassin  Offline
Full Member

Joined: Sep 2012
Posts: 126
Kansas City, MO
Ok. Thnkyou very much!


-Nathon Lee
YouTube Channel - http://www.youtube.com/user/JleewSongs
Yamaha P-35b
#1984029 - 11/08/12 07:12 AM Re: Homemade Piano Action [Re: TheKeysAssassin]  
Joined: Nov 2008
Posts: 5,772
UnrightTooner Offline
5000 Post Club Member
UnrightTooner  Offline
5000 Post Club Member

Joined: Nov 2008
Posts: 5,772
Bradford County, PA
Originally Posted by TecFlip
i am going to sound like a very big noob, but what is OP and OT? also, on the hickman action, it seems that the "Elbow" or joing in the middle of the jack-like object could seize up and not function. smirk


In this case I used OP to mean Original Poster and OT to mean Original Topic. Since you the OP, Jon, are continuing the discussion on the Hickman action, I do not feel like I am highjacking this Topic.

It would be hard to believe that the effort for a patent would be made if the escapement could hang-up. I guess I am questioning how I am looking at it.

I just thought of a similar device: a spring loaded door mechanism. You know the kind with a hinged arm. As long as the arm doesn't over-center, everything is fine. But if the elbow in the arm goes too far, you usually have to reach up and put it back like it should be for the door to close. Just opening the door all the way might not work.


Jeff Deutschle
Part-Time Tuner
Who taught the first chicken how to peck?
#1984231 - 11/08/12 03:31 PM Re: Homemade Piano Action [Re: TheKeysAssassin]  
Joined: Sep 2012
Posts: 126
TheKeysAssassin Offline
Full Member
TheKeysAssassin  Offline
Full Member

Joined: Sep 2012
Posts: 126
Kansas City, MO
Unright Tooner,

I see that there is a piece of felt in between the two parts of the jack like object. Its seem that when the felt gets compacted overtime, it will cause the the jack to, i guess you would call it, over flex, to were when pushing the key, the jack mechanism would not hinge, but stay locked. I really dont think that made much sense.

I am having a hard time visualizing what you are saying about the door hinge. Is there any chance you can post a sketch?

Last edited by TecFlip; 11/08/12 03:31 PM.

-Nathon Lee
YouTube Channel - http://www.youtube.com/user/JleewSongs
Yamaha P-35b
Page 1 of 2 1 2

Moderated by  Piano World 

Piano Acc. & Gift Items in
Piano World's Online Store
Upright Piano Bird House
In our Online Store Now
Hand crafted one-of-a-kind upright piano birdhouses
Each one lovingly designed and created by Kathleen (partner to Mr. Piano World).
(ad)
Pearl River & Ritmuller
Pearl River Pianos
(ad)
Pianoteq
PianoTeq 6 Out now
ad
Pierce Piano Atlas


New Topics - Multiple Forums
How good are Red October pianos?
by hag01. 12/18/17 02:19 PM
non-local piano purchase payment - escrow?
by Osho. 12/18/17 12:15 PM
Fur Elise Speed
by Wayne2467. 12/18/17 09:34 AM
Albinoni Digital piano
by Sara Taylor. 12/18/17 02:21 AM
Forum Statistics
Forums44
Topics183,338
Posts2,680,157
Members89,283
Most Online15,252
Mar 21st, 2010
(ad)
Accu-Tuner
Sanderson Accu-Tuner
Check It Out!
There's a lot more to Piano World than just the forums.
Click Here to
Explore The Rest of Piano World!!
Visit our online store for gifts for music lovers


 
Help keep the forums up and running with a donation, any amount is appreciated!
Or by becoming a Subscribing member! Thank-you.
Donate   Subscribe
 
Our Piano Related Classified Ads
| Dealers | Tuners | Lessons | Movers | Restorations | Pianos For Sale | Sell Your Piano |

Advertise on Piano World
| Subscribe | Piano World | PianoSupplies.com | Advertise on Piano World |
| |Contact | Privacy | Legal | About Us | Site Map | Free Newsletter |


copyright 1997 - 2017 Piano World ® all rights reserved
No part of this site may be reproduced without prior written permission
Powered by UBB.threads™ PHP Forum Software 7.6.0