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#1884712 - 04/23/12 12:39 AM Re: Would you use CA glue on this piano? [Re: Ed Foote]  
Joined: Jun 2011
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Maximillyan Offline
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Maximillyan  Offline
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Joined: Jun 2011
Posts: 2,115
KZ
Originally Posted by Ed Foote
Yes, I have seen the videos and I have dealt with loose pins for many years. I don't do things that way, at all. If I am going to remove a pin, I am going to put another one in that is larger. I want the tuning surface to be steel on hardwood, not paper.
On one of the videos, it seems that the pin is far harder to turn in that it is later, when it is turned back and forth as the string is tuned. It would be very interesting to have a torque figure for the shimmed pin after the string is tuned to pitch. In fact, it would be a necessity to judge the quality of the repair.

Harpsichords, with their much lighter tension, single piece blocks, and small pins, are traditionally shimmed with parchment, but a piano pin with soft cardboard, no way.
Regards,

Hi,Ed Foote. If I understand you, then paper shim under the pin is really sometimes is used for such repairs in harpsichords. However, you explained that it is made of parchment. But I realized that it's not classical skins parchment . And presumably treated cellulose. "Vegetable parchment, or parchment paper consists of a specially processed wood pulp. It is made in factory conditions of the rag paper, in which there is no inorganic substances, using the reagents and partially dissolving pulp. Technology paper-handling is constructed so that the solution cellulose and then deposited in the pores of the paper and seals them.


Thus, the more you convince me to use corrugated cardboard for "treatment." Because corrugated cardboard is also product second- recyclable cellulose. Thanks for this useful information for me. More thank you for taking the time to look, "my movies about repair pin."

The fact that you do not think it is right to use corrugated cardboard for "treatment" of vertical pianos it is your point of view. I declare the opposite, it's the only painless and effective way tight get contact between hardwood pinblock and the pin. I do for many years make it's act and no complaints from customers.
Regards maxim_tuner

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#1896002 - 05/13/12 02:09 AM Re: Would you use CA glue on this piano? [Re: Ed Foote]  
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Maximillyan Offline
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Maximillyan  Offline
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Joined: Jun 2011
Posts: 2,115
KZ
Originally Posted by Ed Foote
I don't do things that way, at all. If I am going to remove a pin, I am going to put another one in that is larger.

Harpsichords, with their much lighter tension, single piece blocks, and small pins, are traditionally shimmed with parchment, but a piano pin with soft cardboard, no way.
Regards,

Dmitry from Ryazan (Russia) sent this video for me. I consulted with me about his old upright piano "Leningrad." Dmitry made the first in his life tuning piano. However, here it's inaccurate. But that's not the point, he writes that took advantage of my metod tight pins with corrugated paper shims.
He wrote:"Thank you for your channel, find much that is instructive. Especially liked the idea with a cardboard insert. Recently I tested, works wonderfully".
"Большое спасибо за ваш канал, нашел много поучительного. Особенно понравилась идея с картонной прокладкой. Недавно опробовал, работает изумительно".
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JGeZycBWDjY&list=LLlLmCnHFUipd4JolDg038DA&feature=mh_lolz



#1896024 - 05/13/12 03:53 AM Re: Would you use CA glue on this piano? [Re: Ryan Hassell]  
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Olek Offline
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Olek  Offline
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France
Yes and you tune pianos so much more accurately than DImitry... you are tiring !


Professional of the profession.
Foo Foo specialist
I wish to add some kind and sensitive phrase but nothing comes to mind.!
#1896025 - 05/13/12 04:02 AM Re: Would you use CA glue on this piano? [Re: Ryan Hassell]  
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Olek Offline
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Olek  Offline
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Joined: Mar 2008
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France
The best repair for tuning pins is toilet paper plus CA , lets be it..

There is a sentence that say "when every one is blind, the one eyed man is the king"

I AM THE ONE EYED MAN ANd YOU ARE MY SUBJECTS !!

Bye guys ! its been a pleasure and , as often I met interesting discrete people.






Professional of the profession.
Foo Foo specialist
I wish to add some kind and sensitive phrase but nothing comes to mind.!
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#1896061 - 05/13/12 07:08 AM Re: Would you use CA glue on this piano? [Re: Olek]  
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Maximillyan Offline
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Maximillyan  Offline
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KZ
Originally Posted by Kamin
Yes and you tune pianos so much more accurately than DImitry... you are tiring !

Dmitri is not a tuner. He has to to do so, because old piano very quickly deep frustrated after a visit to Ryazan tuner. It's don't tune. I am pleased with his work. In the search for truth, he often turns to me for advice. I support his first experimentation with the "Leningrad"

#1896063 - 05/13/12 07:22 AM Re: Would you use CA glue on this piano? [Re: Olek]  
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Maximillyan Offline
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Maximillyan  Offline
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Joined: Jun 2011
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KZ
Originally Posted by Kamin
The best repair for tuning pins is toilet paper plus CA , lets be it..

There is a sentence that say "when every one is blind, the one eyed man is the king"

I AM THE ONE EYED MAN ANd YOU ARE MY SUBJECTS !!

Bye guys ! its been a pleasure and , as often I met interesting discrete people.
Sorry Kamin, but you do not take into account Russian realities. Dmitry no funds for change pins of larger diameter, or technicians, which can re-install them professionally. Therefore he yourself learning it's my films with a corrugated cardboard shims. I am very proud of mastery of Dmitry





#1896315 - 05/13/12 05:47 PM Re: Would you use CA glue on this piano? [Re: Ryan Hassell]  
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Olek Offline
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Olek  Offline
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Joined: Mar 2008
Posts: 9,230
France
Dimitri not a tuner, Dimitri unisons far better than yours.

Go figure... that is the risk you take when you say "However, here it's inaccurate" it is far more accurate than yours."
or :"deep frustrated after a visit to Ryazan tuner"
Of course you saved that piano from the infamous Ryazan tuner..

That is not how I consider we may talk about any colleague, even if we can think we are the best in the world it is not nice to read that, and a little ridiculous when facing the facts.

Wood is usually used (veener) I understand well there is no more wood in Russia smile

I really dont care in the end.

Last edited by Kamin; 05/13/12 05:52 PM.

Professional of the profession.
Foo Foo specialist
I wish to add some kind and sensitive phrase but nothing comes to mind.!
#1897081 - 05/15/12 12:52 AM Re: Would you use CA glue on this piano? [Re: Olek]  
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Maximillyan Offline
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Maximillyan  Offline
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Joined: Jun 2011
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KZ
Originally Posted by Kamin

Wood is usually used (veener) I understand well there is no more wood in Russia smile

Wood in Russia is still have be. Used cardboard shim in a hole of pinblock the Dmitry confirms its effectiveness. It can be seen in the video, there is no problem in his piano sounds. Because he put the shims to screw the pin in a pinblock . Glory corrugated shim!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JGeZ...038DA&index=1&feature=plpp_video

#1897277 - 05/15/12 10:15 AM Re: Would you use CA glue on this piano? [Re: Maximillyan]  
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Olek Offline
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Olek  Offline
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Joined: Mar 2008
Posts: 9,230
France
Originally Posted by Maximillyan
Originally Posted by Kamin

Wood is usually used (veener) I understand well there is no more wood in Russia smile

Wood in Russia is still have be. Used cardboard shim in a hole of pinblock the Dmitry confirms its effectiveness. It can be seen in the video, there is no problem in his piano sounds. Because he put the shims to screw the pin in a pinblock . Glory corrugated shim!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JGeZ...038DA&index=1&feature=plpp_video


The fun thing is that your student understood how to tune unisons and not you after so long. I would ask me a few questions if I where you.


Professional of the profession.
Foo Foo specialist
I wish to add some kind and sensitive phrase but nothing comes to mind.!
#1897310 - 05/15/12 11:23 AM Re: Would you use CA glue on this piano? [Re: Olek]  
Joined: Jun 2011
Posts: 2,115
Maximillyan Offline
2000 Post Club Member
Maximillyan  Offline
2000 Post Club Member

Joined: Jun 2011
Posts: 2,115
KZ
Originally Posted by Kamin
Originally Posted by Maximillyan
Originally Posted by Kamin

Wood is usually used (veener) I understand well there is no more wood in Russia smile

Wood in Russia is still have be. Used cardboard shim in a hole of pinblock the Dmitry confirms its effectiveness. It can be seen in the video, there is no problem in his piano sounds. Because he put the shims to screw the pin in a pinblock . Glory corrugated shim!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JGeZ...038DA&index=1&feature=plpp_video


The fun thing is that your student understood how to tune unisons and not you after so long.

Maybe it's funny, but it is not about student. Read carefully, corrugated shims!

#1978619 - 10/25/12 06:35 PM Re: Would you use CA glue on this piano? [Re: Ryan Hassell]  
Joined: Jul 2009
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Ryan Hassell Offline
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Ryan Hassell  Offline
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Posts: 543
Farmington, MO
Hey everybody,

Today was the six month tuning for the piano about which I started this thread. The overall pitch was very close to where I left it and the pins were all good and tight and had a good feel to them. A few were "glued" in place and had to be freed up. After a little pop I was then able to adjust them where they needed to be. I guess the glue was not completely dry when I tuned it last time.


Ryan G. Hassell
Hassell's Piano Tuning
Farmington, MO
www.hassellspianotuning.com
http://www.facebook.com/pages/Hassells-Piano-Tuning/163155880804
ryanhassell@hotmail.com
#1978757 - 10/26/12 03:26 AM Re: Would you use CA glue on this piano? [Re: Ryan Hassell]  
Joined: Jun 2011
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Maximillyan Offline
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Maximillyan  Offline
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Joined: Jun 2011
Posts: 2,115
KZ
Originally Posted by Ryan Hassell
A few were "glued" in place and had to be freed up.

I'm glad that happened. However, if some pins were "glued into the body of wood", they will not be well-tuned in the future

#1978790 - 10/26/12 07:05 AM Re: Would you use CA glue on this piano? [Re: Ryan Hassell]  
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Loren D Offline
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Loren D  Offline
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PA
I've used good old Pin-Tite for years without problem. Pins that were treated still feel nice and clicky, and the pianos are stable. And I didn't have to evacuate all living creatures from the premises while waiting for the smell to clear. smile

Seriously, I've had good results with it, and that's probably why I don't feel the need to try CA glue.


DiGiorgi Piano Service
http://www.digiorgipiano.com
#1978829 - 10/26/12 09:44 AM Re: Would you use CA glue on this piano? [Re: Loren D]  
Joined: Jun 2011
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Maximillyan Offline
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Maximillyan  Offline
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Joined: Jun 2011
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KZ
Originally Posted by Loren D
I've used good old Pin-Tite for years without problem. Pins that were treated still feel nice and clicky, and the pianos are stable.

Dear Loren D, so "good old Pin-Tite" it well. Max is looking forward to when somebody been possible to put a small experiment with corrugated cardboard shim. A pins must be very loose, a piano very old and "life of it's bad condition"

#1978837 - 10/26/12 10:19 AM Re: Would you use CA glue on this piano? [Re: Ryan Hassell]  
Joined: Oct 2011
Posts: 612
That Guy Offline
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That Guy  Offline
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Joined: Oct 2011
Posts: 612
Lincoln, NE
So it's been six months since you applied the CA glue? I've had some pianos where a few of the pins needed to be freed up like yours but then they tuned up fine. Sounds like it was a success then if I'm hearing you correctly.


Scott Kerns
"That Tuning Guy"
Lincoln, NE
www.thattuningguy.com
#1981252 - 11/01/12 07:59 AM Re: Would you use CA glue on this piano? [Re: Ryan Hassell]  
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Chuck Behm, CPT-E Offline
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Chuck Behm, CPT-E  Offline
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Boone, Iowa, USA
Hey Ryan - I would encourage you to explain the options to your customers and let them decide. In the case of loose pins, you of course have several treatments to choose from. I would explain the benefits, costs and time requirements for each.

If you would like to present information on C.A. treatment, you might like to look over this article, C.A. Treatment of a Loose Pinblock . As others have noted, the results (and appearance) of the job can vary. Make sure you take the time to apply the C.A. carefully so that you don't have a sloppy mess!

If you would like to present a second option, you might find this article helpful - Repinning and Restringing . This, of course, is a considerably more expensive repair option, in that your outlay of time and material expense would be far greater. It can, however, give the customer a lot of advantages without nearly the cost of a Steinway rebuild.

A third option to present is covered in the article Duplicating and Replacing the Grand Pinblock . This option would necessitate the piano being moved to the shop, and would of course be more expensive yet. For some pinblocks, however, it is the only practical solution.

Obviously, I wouldn't recommend that you offer to do any repair which you weren't experience at. But if you have the tools and the know how to do the job right, don't be afraid to make the case for having you be the man to do the job.

Good luck in growing your business, by the way. I see you're from Missouri. Have you ever been through Festus/Crystal City - the Twin Cities of the South? That's where I started tuning and repairing pianos back in the dark ages! Best wishes, Chuck Behm


Tuner/Technician/Rebuilder/Technical Writer
www.pianopromoproductions.com
515-212-9220

"The act of destruction is infinitely easier than the act of creation" - Arthur C. Clarke
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