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This post did make me think a bit ... firstly, as teachers, should we openly tell a student that we don't like a particular genre? In other fields - psychology/therapy and even medicine people are supposed to ideally be blank canvases, they are never supposed to reveal any personal details about themselves or anything about themselves, in practice this is different ... but in the world of pedagogy, particularly with teaching piano one on one, should students know about any details pertaining to our personal tastes that have to do with music?

The simple answer, on my end is - no. In my experience as a student - a student of the traditional one on one system, and then an undergrad majoring in music, and now reflecting on things as a novice teacher - I always remember that there were teachers who I have studied with who have very openly said that they don't like particular music. I remember one particular conservative teacher who really disliked 20th and 21st century music. He also also ironically bickered about how there aren't any new composers with new and good ideas... but he didn't like music that was atonal, experimentalist or expressionist. When I entered university and learned about what all those fancy words meant, a world of music opened up to me. I didn't feel resentful that the teacher didn't open me up to that world earlier, but I did feel like he was a narrow minded person who insisted on having 'sophisticated' taste in music, but ironically was closed to a lot of music.

Besides this I think that the spotlight is never on the teacher, it's on the student ... sure it helps to be in love with the music you teach, or maybe it doesn't (because students butcher your music) but either way, as the saying goes: you're the guide on the side, not the sage on the stage. I also remember reading in a book that the role of the teacher (and this was focusing on music teachers in particular) is to have the students paint themselves - rather than become clones of you.

I know that this is a bit different to the original post but I think in tangents quite frequently ... I call them tangents of enlightenment.

I would teach Lady Gaga if a student wanted to, but I tend to consider it part of my job to get kids excited about music and motivated to learn the important parts of reading, theory, technique, etc., so they can ultimately play the music they want to be able to play. I tend to be pretty open-minded about music as well. There are a LOT of very boring, uncreative classical pieces out there too, and quite a lot of really interesting, musical songs being written on the more mainstream music scene today. Radiohead, for one, is fascinating rhythmically and harmonically.

My standard disclaimer applies: I am not a teacher, and no one in their right-mind would have me as a student.

You raise a great philosophical question here, and perhaps I could start answering it with another question: If the teachers do not help the students form musical taste, then who will?

I understand the neutral, blank-slate theory, and equally, understand the danger of prejudicing a student against a certain composer or genre. But, I also see a real danger in a teacher NOT strongly expressing her/his leaned opinion. All too often, student tastes are governed by what they hear or see or experience COMMONLY, and without any evaluation or critique. Certainly part of the teaching process is to equip the student with good ears, and sensible methods to evaluate things for themselves. I cannot imagine a better, less preaching, way to do this than to say,
> “I love almost everything that Composer X writes! Just listen to how this harmony moves us along . . .”
> “Even though this melody is not really singable, it captures a mood for me. And look what Composer Y did with the dynamics here: how creative!”
> “A lot of people enjoy the music of Composer Z, but I find that after the first 3 or 4 measures, it all sounds the same. Here, listen . . . For me, I love it when a composer paints different pictures, and moves from place to place. The music has to take me somewhere!”
> “There is music that makes me feel alive, makes me think, and music that makes me feel dull. What does this piece do for you?”

A friend of mine, who recently passed away, was a fellow racer. In his fabrication shop he had a banner prominently displayed: Moderation shows a lack of commitment.

Maybe teachers need “less moderation”, or is that an oxymoron?
Ed

I've heard that saying before, but I've never quite agreed with it. I see a teacher as someone who can teach students all the necessary skills so that they (the students) can eventually guide themselves.

If the teachers do not help the students form musical taste, then who will?

I have determined exposure helps. I hated beets. tasted like dirt. Kept trying every time I came across them and now, it's a meal highlight.

Dadaist poetry - wasn't fond of it. it's too unfamiliar. I am taking a course on it and was shocked when my daughter was covering dadaist art how much we could discuss. How less foreign the art was because I was exposed to the ideas behind it.

I wasn't crazy about classical music. I keep the classical station on in the car - for her sport and piano lessons. Now I can hear something and realize I've heard it before and knowing it makes me much more fond of it. Little courses like Classic's for Kids give me history and also more appreciation.

I wonder if one goal from an educator should be giving resources to students - hey parent, From the Top is a radio/tv show featuring young musicians, you might have your child check it out at 8pm on Sunday nights. Or here is a great piano magazine you might want to subscribe to, or classic for kids will give your kids a free appreciation class in 6 minutes a week.

Personally, I would advise seeking the guidance of someone who *does* love the genre. They will likely be able to point you towards the best starting point from where you can develop you appreciation further - the "gateway drug", if you like.

I remember watching a wonderful TV series by Simon Rattle called "Leaving Home" - it really helped me to appreciate contemporary and avant-garde "classical" music.

Nowadays, my belief is that it is generally foolish to write off any musical genre in its entirety.

Except for Trance, that is.

What thought-provoking contributions!

Nannerl wrote:
This post did make me think a bit ... firstly, as teachers, should we openly tell a student that we don't like a particular genre?

Ed wrote: If the teachers do not help the students form musical taste, then who will?

Ben wrote: Personally, I would advise seeking the guidance of someone who *does* love the genre.

Maggie reminded us we can learn to appreciate things we didn't initially like.

I think I can't entirely hide my passion and love for certain passages, and why should I? And the converse is that some pieces I won't like and a clever student will notice my lack of passion at some point, no matter how I try to hide it. Certain pieces, I am just unlikely to suggest. There's no getting round my own taste. Course I will always try to help a student no matter what they are playing...

I can be polite about certain music, I don't need to go off and rant about how useless it is, even if that's how I feel.

Certainly if a student wants to specialise in freeform atonal music, I'm not the right teacher. On the other hand, I like to think I can do more than just the one genre. Whatever our students start out liking, we want to broaden the taste, don't we?

I tend to think being neutral and doing that blank canvas thing is an ideal, not an absolute, in practice it never happens that way - even in fields where it is mandatory e.g. I know my doctor is married with a daughter who finished university and is studying medicine, I know that he doesn't like watching MasterChef and I know that he was a taxi driver in his undergraduate years.) There are certain things we can't help sharing. Sharing with a student how much we love certain repertoire, and subtly shying away from certain repertoire is fine... but what if a student presents to us something that they really love that we don't? I remember when I was younger, a friend of mine presented a Jazz piece to her teacher, her teacher was a retired professor of music at a very good conservatory, the letters next to his name spelled a very long and successful career but he hated Jazz - he openly admitted it - hated the whole entire genre, even the 'good' stuff. Had I been in that teacher's shoes, if a student really loved something and s/he is capable of playing it, then I'm going to teach s/he to the best of my ability. If s/he likes Jazz then GREAT, s/he doesn't need to hear about how much I don't like it.

As far as personal taste development goes, I understand that sharing ones personal taste would be one of the most effective and non-preachy ways to do it ... but I think that it can be somewhat detrimental in the early stages of learning. I never do want to produce a clone of me but I understand that people will be influenced by me, just as they are influenced by the billboard on the highway. People will know what I like, people do know what I like, but I wont very openly tell students that I really hate something. I will never reveal my disdain for certain genres in front of them and if they like something that I'll very gladly support them in learning the music.

Mind you, at a higher level, when a person's personal taste is more developed I don't see any harm in being a bit more open about personal taste. I know what my teachers like ... I know that my singing teacher doesn't like Purcell (but I LOVE Purcell) and that's ok... we're OK with our differences.

I absolutely must defer to those who actually teach every day, especially the younger students. Your reasoning comes from experience on “the front lines”, while my opinions come from conjecture.

Still, we are a long way from the clinical medical sciences, or from detached psychiatry’s “What do YOU think it means?” We are discussing ART. I cannot help but believe that there is genuine value in a teacher stating what s/he really likes (or dislikes), and WHY.


Perhaps we are discussing DEGREES of expressing opinion, or how those opinions are presented. For instance, referring to the highly credentialed professor in your example, “Had I been in that teacher’s shoes . . . then I am going to “ say –
“I am really not the right person to help you with this Jazz Piece. In all my years at the Conservatory, I never grew an appreciation for jazz. Somehow, playing a few chords and improvising some melody is not anywhere as fulfilling to me as mastering the exquisite beauty of a nice sonata. Beethoven took months to put together a work that performs for four minutes. A jazz combo throws together a four-minute piece on the spot. How could they be equally satisfying? Now, what do you like about this jazz piece?”

Standing (temporarily) in the shoes of the music professor, I am expressing my opinion, and my passion for what I love. I am also giving musical, and perhaps historical, reasons WHY I feel that way. We are not at the keyboard, but I am still very actively teaching.

And it goes even further than that: By example, I am showing my student that I do have strong opinions about music. That I have a passion for certain kinds of music, and a disregard for others. That I have reasons behind my thinking and opinions. In sum, that I have developed musical taste. And perhaps most important of all, That I am not afraid to express my preferences.

Now the hope becomes that the student uses this example to forge her/his own, unique strong opinions, with reasons - her/his personal musical taste.

Moderation shows a lack of commitment. (- John Goss)

Absolutely this. Especially the bit about unhideable enthusiasm.