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#1977924 - 10/24/12 09:17 AM Re: How Can We Make the Advice Given on Piano World Better? [Re: Steve Cohen]  
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Is PW better yet? wink Jk....


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#1978004 - 10/24/12 12:35 PM Re: How Can We Make the Advice Given on Piano World Better? [Re: turandot]  
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Originally Posted by turandot
Originally Posted by Jethro
[ wasn't looking to start a war.


Me neither, but I've been pretty consistent on this thread in observing that the concrete suggestions made on how we can improve the advice here are all based on removomg or minimizing an element of the membership that the person making the suggestion considers undesirable. I just don't think that's the way to go. It's nothing personal.

Added to that is your comment that you only check in here for an occasional laugh Does that strike you as possibly a tad condescending? And.... in those comments about one particular retailer and one particular obscure European piano brand you feel gets undue attention here, it's hard not to miss the sparks flying off an ax as it meets the grinding wheel. Would you say that those comments do not relate to a personal agenda?

Finally, I honestly can recall no example of the overt hijacking of a thread topic by a retailer who wants to turn it toward his agenda. That's not to say that retailers don't look for their posting opportunities and that there aren't many such opportunities presented, but taking advantage of an opportuity presented is not the same IMO as forcibly taking a thread off-topic.

My own impression is that topics are most often pulled off topic by non-industry members who insert themselves into threads as self-appointed thought moderators, going here, there, and everywhere to label what they don't agree with as irrelevant.



Well, 3 points to make

I was being honest about why I check in from time to time and yes it is for the occasional amusement or an occasional laugh. There are topics on these forums that can often take an amusing turn. I cannot help but laugh at times that a musical instrument could be the source of so much heated debate. I don't know if that's condescending if I see it that way, but it is what it is...

The reason why I haven't posted in some time is simply because I started a new business and just haven't had the time to post. If I had an agenda, certainly you would think I would have made more than 1 post in over a year? I mean, c'mon dude! My only agenda was to give some advice based on the original poster's question. It was just a suggestion. My concerns with the piano forums section was that the advice on these boards were not always as transparent or balanced as they could be. There is no perfect solution- but my suggestion might be a start. As I stated above, no one wants to remove the ability of an industry professional to post.

You make some really good points otherwise in your comments above. You are correct in that it is wrong to minimize suggestions one considers "undesirable". It is wrong for anyone to be "condescending" in their posts. It is wrong for "non-industry members to insert themselves into threads as self-appointed thought moderators going here, there, and everywhere to label what they don't agree with as irrelevant." That is all really good advice but based on the way you responded to my first post ( and I'm pretty sure many others feel this way as well), I think sometimes you just need to heed your own advice.



Last edited by Jethro; 10/24/12 12:53 PM.
#1978046 - 10/24/12 01:59 PM Re: How Can We Make the Advice Given on Piano World Better? [Re: Steve Cohen]  
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The whole idea that the "we" in the title of thread has some major significance is quite silly IMO. Virtually none of the posters saw it that way and there were around fifty posts by many different posters before the comments about the significance Of "we" came along.

Last edited by pianoloverus; 10/24/12 02:01 PM.
#1978051 - 10/24/12 02:08 PM Re: How Can We Make the Advice Given on Piano World Better? [Re: Steve Cohen]  
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It would be interesting if this thread deteriorated into the type of thread that prompted the question to begin with.


"It is better to keep your mouth closed and let people think you are a fool than to open it and remove all doubt."
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#1978058 - 10/24/12 02:41 PM Re: How Can We Make the Advice Given on Piano World Better? [Re: Larry Buck]  
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Originally Posted by Larry Buck
It would be interesting if this thread deteriorated into the type of thread that prompted the question to begin with.


Heading that way at light speed.


Dan Silverwood
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#1978064 - 10/24/12 02:48 PM Re: How Can We Make the Advice Given on Piano World Better? [Re: Steve Cohen]  
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one more suggestion to improve these forums -- an Ignore button, a common feature on BBS software, which would help improve the Signal to Noise ratio both in terms of personal selection and preemptive elimination of conflict.

update: found it -- it's on the user profile.

Last edited by Entheo; 10/24/12 02:59 PM.
#1978095 - 10/24/12 04:07 PM Re: How Can We Make the Advice Given on Piano World Better? [Re: Steve Cohen]  
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A maximum number of postings per week would compel members to consider seriously the content of what they post and when.

Also some online newspaper forums I am on do not allow editing. This also compels the poster to think seriously about the content of a posting.

Say 35-50 postings per week…one could have the choice of posting daily or jettison the entire amount in one day.

I believe this would go a long way to cutting down the bickering and sniping; one would not see a lot of throwaway postings.

I thought of another interesting one that is completely unworkable; dealers would not be permitted to post about what they sell; only what they don’t sell. It would make for some pretty interesting postings.


Dan Silverwood
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#1978115 - 10/24/12 04:50 PM Re: How Can We Make the Advice Given on Piano World Better? [Re: Silverwood Pianos]  
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Originally Posted by Silverwood Pianos
Originally Posted by Larry Buck
It would be interesting if this thread deteriorated into the type of thread that prompted the question to begin with.


Heading that way at light speed.


grin

Well, it won't be because of me. I've been told that 50 odd posts have proven that my idea of collective responsibility (rather than evicting undesirables from the tenement grin) is silly, so I'll just sit in a corner.

I do like your idea of a post limit though. Since I've been on a self-imposed reading and posting diet, my physique has improved a lot. Seriously, I agree that it places a premium on organizing one's thoughts prior to blabbering.

I don't know how management would feel about a decline in overall post count though. Quality over quantity is not always an easy sell. It's like those top-level French restaurants where the artistry of presentation can't quite overcome the hunger in the belly. grin


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#1978120 - 10/24/12 05:05 PM Re: How Can We Make the Advice Given on Piano World Better? [Re: Steve Cohen]  
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Bumping up against the "Wall" is exactly what reminds us of where that "Wall" is.

Piano World has a way of working all things out.

At times, I have to introspect thoroughly as I am reading. I think this is where much of my own personal growth is.

If we constrain things any more than they are by the moderators, I think value is lost.

BTW, I think the moderators do a very good job.



Last edited by Larry Buck; 10/24/12 09:05 PM.

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#1978132 - 10/24/12 05:19 PM Re: How Can We Make the Advice Given on Piano World Better? [Re: Steve Cohen]  
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I think editing is OK, but there should be a time limit on it. One forum I am on gives you 20 minutes to correct spelling and grammar (and maybe change your mind about that public snarky comment). I kind of like that. There is too much re-writing of history happening here, at times.

#1978151 - 10/24/12 05:48 PM Re: How Can We Make the Advice Given on Piano World Better? [Re: Supply]  
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Originally Posted by Supply
I think editing is OK, but there should be a time limit on it. One forum I am on gives you 20 minutes to correct spelling and grammar (and maybe change your mind about that public snarky comment). I kind of like that. There is too much re-writing of history happening here, at times.



This is what I mean. History should not be re-written. A poster makes a posting and if mistaken it is reconciled over time and further postings for all to view.

Like I stated previously this would cut down on a lot of the unnecessary (read snarky) content. It would also force members to think about what the content of the posting actually is.


Dan Silverwood
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#1978157 - 10/24/12 06:08 PM Re: How Can We Make the Advice Given on Piano World Better? [Re: Steve Cohen]  
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Putting all snarkynesses aside, I agree with the recurring thread that keeps weaving its way through this thread, Stay On Topic!

Whew, finally got that out.
Thanks.


"Imagine it in all its primatic colorings, its counterpart in our souls - our souls that are great pianos whose strings, of honey and of steel, the divisions of the rainbow set twanging, loosing on the air great novels of adventure!" - William Carlos Williams
#1978167 - 10/24/12 06:35 PM Re: How Can We Make the Advice Given on Piano World Better? [Re: Supply]  
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Originally Posted by Supply
I think editing is OK, but there should be a time limit on it. One forum I am on gives you 20 minutes to correct spelling and grammar (and maybe change your mind about that public snarky comment). I kind of like that. There is too much re-writing of history happening here.
I think this is way PW editing works right now. At least that has been my experience with editing. I don't know what the present time limit is. It actually seems to vary from post to post.

#1978179 - 10/24/12 07:14 PM Re: How Can We Make the Advice Given on Piano World Better? [Re: Larry Buck]  
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Originally Posted by Larry Buck
Bumping up against the "Wall" is exactly what reminds us of where that "Wall" is.

Piano World has a way of working all things out.

At times, I have to introspect thoroughly as I am reading. I think this is where my much of my own personal growth is.

If we constrain things any more than that they are by the moderators, I think value is lost.

BTW, I think the moderators do a very good job.




This ^^

There is no perfect internet forum out there. I think a good enough balance is struck here that keeps the content interesting and varied.



Happiness is a freshly tuned piano.
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#1978197 - 10/24/12 08:19 PM Re: How Can We Make the Advice Given on Piano World Better? [Re: Supply]  
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Originally Posted by Supply
I think editing is OK, but there should be a time limit on it. One forum I am on gives you 20 minutes to correct spelling and grammar (and maybe change your mind about that public snarky comment). I kind of like that. There is too much re-writing of history happening here, at times.


I was glad there was an edit facility when a particular manufacturer demanded that I withdraw all negative comments about one of their products - (I removed all references I ever made about all their products, including substantial positive comments). These comments were older than 20 minutes.


Alan from Queensland, Australia (and Clara - my Grotrian Concert & Allen Organ (CF-15)).
#1978222 - 10/24/12 09:08 PM Re: How Can We Make the Advice Given on Piano World Better? [Re: Steve Cohen]  
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I am very happy I could edit my poor grammar in my above last post.

You can still read my bad grammar in Opera Tenor's quote of me ;-) ....

Nothing ever truly disappears on the web ....


"It is better to keep your mouth closed and let people think you are a fool than to open it and remove all doubt."
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#1978239 - 10/24/12 09:47 PM Re: How Can We Make the Advice Given on Piano World Better? [Re: Silverwood Pianos]  
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Originally Posted by Silverwood Pianos
Originally Posted by Supply
I think editing is OK, but there should be a time limit on it. One forum I am on gives you 20 minutes to correct spelling and grammar (and maybe change your mind about that public snarky comment). I kind of like that. There is too much re-writing of history happening here, at times.



This is what I mean. History should not be re-written. A poster makes a posting and if mistaken it is reconciled over time and further postings for all to view.

Like I stated previously this would cut down on a lot of the unnecessary (read snarky) content. It would also force members to think about what the content of the posting actually is.


Meh... I edited my last post to actually add additional snarkiness to my content. I thought I was simply being too easy on Turandot.

#1978261 - 10/24/12 10:56 PM Re: How Can We Make the Advice Given on Piano World Better? [Re: Steve Cohen]  
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Now that is funny.

I just went back to posts of mine that are over a month old. I can still edit them.

[Edit:] Maybe I should while I still can?

Last edited by Supply; 10/25/12 12:40 AM.
#1978280 - 10/24/12 11:55 PM Re: How Can We Make the Advice Given on Piano World Better? [Re: Larry Buck]  
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Originally Posted by Larry Buck
I am very happy I could edit my poor grammar in my above last post.

You can still read my bad grammar in Opera Tenor's quote of me ;-) ....

Nothing ever truly disappears on the web ....


I'm here to help...

;-)



Happiness is a freshly tuned piano.
Jim Boydston, proprietor, No Piano Left Behind - technician
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#1978408 - 10/25/12 09:23 AM Re: How Can We Make the Advice Given on Piano World Better? [Re: Jethro]  
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Originally Posted by Jethro
I've posted on and off on these forums through the years and over time began feeling it was big waste of time for those looking for unbiased opinions.... I still visit piano forums from time to time but I must apologize it's usually to get a quick laugh similar to the way I go to hockey games hoping a brawl would break out.


Originally Posted by Jethro
The reason why I haven't posted in some time is simply because I started a new business and just haven't had the time to post.


Originally Posted by Jethro

I edited my last post to actually add additional snarkiness to my content. I thought I was simply being too easy on Turandot.


Jethro,

Make up your mind.

It's truly difficult to believe that you came into this thread to offer constructive comments on the thread topic.


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#1978412 - 10/25/12 09:36 AM Re: How Can We Make the Advice Given on Piano World Better? [Re: Steve Cohen]  
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Hmm, back to the topic.

We will improve our content, immensely, by knowing when not to respond. It isn't as self-aggrandizing as leaping to the fray, but it is a lot more effective. A forum where B.S. passes through, rather than being held up at the first check-point as a target for snipers, is a cleaner place. Smells better, too.
If some fool is wrong, the peer community may well point it out, but trying to convince, or to continue looking for capitulation is folly. There are too many out there that seek contention for their own personal needs and they post not for community with the forum, but rather, as a means of creating the rancor and strife in which they feel most comfortable. Knowing when to ignore is a higher form of communication than descending into the mud pit of ignorance with someone that is already there and comfortable in it.

Regards,

#1978461 - 10/25/12 12:09 PM Re: How Can We Make the Advice Given on Piano World Better? [Re: turandot]  
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Originally Posted by turandot
Originally Posted by Jethro
I've posted on and off on these forums through the years and over time began feeling it was big waste of time for those looking for unbiased opinions.... I still visit piano forums from time to time but I must apologize it's usually to get a quick laugh similar to the way I go to hockey games hoping a brawl would break out.


Originally Posted by Jethro
The reason why I haven't posted in some time is simply because I started a new business and just haven't had the time to post.


Originally Posted by Jethro

I edited my last post to actually add additional snarkiness to my content. I thought I was simply being too easy on Turandot.


Jethro,

Make up your mind.

It's truly difficult to believe that you came into this thread to offer constructive comments on the thread topic.
I see nothing inconsistent in his statements that require that he make up his mind.

#1978466 - 10/25/12 12:17 PM Re: How Can We Make the Advice Given on Piano World Better? [Re: Steve Cohen]  
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People forget that this whole discussion is missing a very important part, at least as long as real players are involved.

It's not about advice "given" - but "gotton"

Pianist and buyers typically offer advice and opinions which a true professional will respect.

Just read Franz Mohr's book.

As professional one can offer different samples and experiences involving different pianos and their state of preparation.

Widening possible choices for buyers is not the same as "giving an opinion".

2 very different things.

Norbert

Last edited by Norbert; 10/25/12 12:18 PM.

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