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first of all ... sorry for my english.
I bought two weeks ago a KAWAI CA 65 and I would like to report a problem. while playing, it feels out from the front speakers a swish annoying, especially in volume more than half. is a strange noise, airy, not an external vibration. this swish is heard even during the demos. it was a real disappointment, because this swish distracts me during performances. I hope that is not a flaw in my piano. KAWAI perhaps already aware of this problem. What do you recommend?
Thank you.

There is a synthesised pedal noise. On my grand, raising the dampers of the strings with the systain pedal made a swishing noise. Kawai added this effect to pressing the righthand (sustain) pedal. The effect can be turned off in the settings so my advice would be to turn this off first and see if that is what your hearing. I have a similar piano to you(ca95) and hopefully this is what you hear.

Regards. Paul

Interestingly, there was at the piano dealer a professional at place who had this same complaint which he described with very similar words. Ha tried to demonstrate this alleged phenomenon with both CA65 and CA95, even somewhat lesser with (very good) headphones, it should be more pronounced with CA65. I can't remember he used any pedal by this.

But how strong I tried I was not able to hear it at all. (I was in a very exhausted state and after acoustically demanding day with many car driving.)

He stated it is very audible and can be very disturbing. I have mentioned this on another thread, but how your describing seems to correspond precisely to that accounts.

I am using my CA51 with pleasure and never had any complaint with it, just wanting to update it after 4 years - I have narrowed my search down to the CA95. However before buying it I would like to hear some conclusive responses to these issues from consumers or even better from Kawai.

Regards Attila

MIXIO, as UK Paul UK notes, the CA65 features a 'Damper Noise' Virtual Technician setting which reproduces the sound of dampers being lifted from the strings. The volume of this effect can be reduced or set to 'Off'.

I am confident that adjusting the 'Damper Noise' setting will reduce or eliminate the sound you are hearing. However, if not, please contact the Kawai dealer (or distributor) from where the instrument was purchased to report the issue formally.

Kind regards,
James
x

thanks for your answers.
I have to specify that the annoying noise is heard also without sustain pedal pressed, but very reduced.
with the sustain pedal pressed the strange airy swish is more evident but not continuous, it appears and disappears; probably it derives from some keys, not all keys.
If i use Grand Mellow Piano this swish almost disappears, but there always is .... it's smaller but always present. it's not a pleasure while i'm playing.
I will try to follow the advice of James ... i'll reduce "damper noise" with the virtual technician and i will inform you.

kind regards!

Mixio

Mixio, please also raise this topic with your dealer.

Kind regards,
James
x

I received my replacement ca95 last night (with free stool this time...) and noticed immediately a similar sound through the headphones. My benefit is I have had my original ca95 three weeks and obviously got used to how it sounds. I only played for a short period but am notifying my contact at kawai and will see how it goes over the next couple if weeks.....

UK PAUL UK, then i have to suppose that the "famous" swish is a manifactoring defect. i'll raise this topic with my dealer. i hope for the best but i'm worried! (I live on the top floor without lift :-()and I would not return the piano. may be it's possible resolve the matter with a KAWAI release in download

Kind regards.

mixio

Hi, i have only had the one session with it so far, will get another couple of hours tomorrow for further investigation. As the piano delivery was rather late i only used headphones last night and since an hour before i was playing my original ca95 i had a very apparent change. The pedal effect is completely different. Ive emailed my kawai contact. I hope a software update will sort it but considering my original piano was fine... i have my doubts. Time will tell :-)

UK Paul UK, at least when these sounds are noticable through headphones, You should be able to produce and share an MP3 about it.

Then the rest of us could judge what kind of it actually is. (A digital processing artifact - as I would guess, some added noises aiming at simulating reality (damper pedal) or some amplifying quality problem or just nothing of relevance for us.)

(Fom my Galaxy Pianos I generally abandon pedal noises, because they do not seem there to blend organically with the rest of the instrument - however in Galaxy they are of real acoustic character, not just some dirty effect as You described it.)

It would be a great clarifying point and contribution, which can come only from one who definitely does have the problem.

Until then the issue remains a ghost hunting...

Yes, i agree.... today i'm quite occupied with moving home, however i have already made the point i'm spending a couple of hours this afternoon playing ( ontop of getting up at 6am for an hour of coffee,cigerettes and sight reading practice for breakfast ) so i will investigate more later....

Just had a quick play and can definately hear a squishy sound with every key press both without headphones and with.... will upload a sample later.

last news ....
James wrote: "I am confident that adjusting the 'Damper Noise' setting will reduce or eliminate the sound you are hearing"; unfortunately it's not so.
the squishy sound is alwais there. it's like a man who breathes near your right ear.
but these sounds are not noticable through headphones.
then?i think it's a amplifying quality problem.
kind regards

I can hear it through my headphones... :-(

Its nothing to do with the sustain pedal simulation.... my original ca95 didnt have this fault... just scratched black keys and the replacement now has this effect... can hear it with every keypress on mine.... with headphones or without. Rather have my scratched black keys back as the piano sounded beautifull after a week of my ears getting used to it.... not a happy man.

Starts at e3 and gets worse up the keyboard for me....

If I understand correctly, you did not have this sound in your previous damaged CA65? If so, it must definately be something with your current DP. Did you contact your dealer already ?

I didnt notice it in my previous piano no... (ca95) still.... i'm not regretting getting the model even with these issues... after 2 hours this morning on my old dp(now my daughters) and 2 hours this evening on the kawai i am still faithful if these issues can be sorted then im going to have many years of pleasure from it.... fabulous action.

My kawai rep got back to me a few minutes ago and will call me tomorrow to discuss further. (9pm here in uk)

PLEASANT SURPRISE!
AFTER THAT I USED THE KAWAI CA 65 WITH HEADPHONES, WITHOUT HEADPHONES THE STRANGE NOISE FEELS NO MORE. AM I CRAZY? Or is it POSSIBLE?
KIND REGARDS

We are just returning from a trekking tour in the Austrian Alps with family and on the route back I brought my son with me to one of the biggest music shops in Vienna with digital instruments selling to check this "problem" with the KAWAIs.

None of us was able to notice anything, how hard we tried. My son (17 yrs young) has excellent hearing capabilities and nothing bad could he detect either.

None of the KAWAIs there (CA95; CA65 and CL34) exposed anything at least not something strong enough to be detectable for us above sensitivity threshold after a 3 hr. loud car trip...

I tried now to listen on the right side speaker after the remarks UK Paul UK (we didn't have the opportunity to test it further with earphones this time.)

As it seems I could stick with my choice of CA95 - I see it now confirmed by this visit.

Some Pluses for the CA95:
- GF keyboard (quiet, smooth for my older finger joints but at the same time
responsive and precise enough)
- very real sound with soundboard, a very physical sensation
- KAWAIs good tuning features with user definable temperaments (important for my
special interests; lacking feature even with top notch Yamahas, at least I
couldn't find it in the manuals )
- Value of CA95 justifies the price over the CA65 (without soundboard and weaker
speaker/amplifying system - the even cheaper CN43 was in a complete another
class.)

Still I'll wait a little for some conclusion to these "user stories".

Greetings, Attila

what are user definable temperaments, is it more then what Roland is offering on their HP500 series by selecting different temperaments ?

If you're interested in what exactly you can change ( it's a lot ! ), you should check out the PDF with the manual for both CA65/95 on Kawai's website. They call it 'virtual technician' .
link: http://www.kawai.de/service/ca95_65_e.pdf

Concerning sound on the Kawai CA65 ( which I have as well ): I like it and so far I have never heard anything strange or annoying, although I have to say I'm a beginner and do not have a trained ear like some of you.

Hi, ap55, I think for scale tuning it is not much more than Yamaha's letting to select a few historical temperaments.

But as the manual for HP507 does reveal, you have the possibility to individually tune every single key (s. under stretched tuning p.43-44).

It would be the most flexible method for tuning on paper but not a very practical feature to quickly edit/choose between scales. I find KAWAIs approach more practicable, but there I am just missing the combination of stretching and scale tuning: Temperament Questions

As it seems all leading manufacturers have enough potential for improvements in this field.

My recent work (not yet published) along with other literature on temperaments showed the very importance of these features for baroque and early classical music.

I'm sending the mp3 recording i made today of keys being pressed to my kawai contact. I'm going to wait for his response before posting it on here. Its quite clear to me with certain keys the phenomenon can be heard. I'm in a unique position in that i played 2 ca95 models within an hour of each other in my home. I hope this is just bad luck for me with two models and doesn't effect anyone else but its very apparent once noticed... He has asked for the label details for my current ca95 to check any alterations in production.

My current description of the sound is like a microphone has been placed next to the key bed, recorded the keys being pressed down really hard and then mixed it unnaturally into the sample.. Its the same length whether keys are pressed down and released or held down... and i can hear it with or without headphones. Its the same with or without reverb.

UK PAUL UK,
I'M AGREE WITY YOU: the sound is like a microphone has been placed next to the key bed.
I HAVE AN ANSWER: IS IT POSSIBLE THAT AFTER USING THE headphones, WITHOUT headphones THE STRANGE NOISE DISAPPEARS?
Greetings, MIXIO

Haven't tried that... will give it a go tonight.

Hello everybody!

I have the same problem with my CA-65.When I trying to play the Grand Piano (setting by default) I hear a kind of noise with some keys like a clang or over resonance with both speakers and headphones. I tried all tips that you described here and many others without results. I'm waiting for some new system version or patch that can solve this issue. I thought in the beginning that it was a problem only with my unit, but now I can realize that it wasn't.
Otherwise I am very happy with my DP.
Cordially,
Alejo

Yes, there are several keys (above middle "C") on my Kawai CA95 that give off a strange raspy metallic sound, and, just haven't been able to completely edit this away with the "Basic Settings" or, the "Virtual Technician."

These perceived sounds appear to be with the samples, themselves.

So, you can either live with it, or, find another digital.

Yes I know :=(
The problem to get another DP is that I bought my Kawai CA-65 from Germany and I live in Sweden. it can be a lite expensive change HE HE HE!
The other thing is that I like my Kawai CA-65. It has a good keyboard feeling and beautiful design.
I think that it will be a new software version in short to solve this issue. I'm sure

I really don't hear anoying sounds like some of you. I do hear the key release and tapping sounds, but you can always turn that off if you don't like that. What sounds terrible to me is when you put it in 'Upright' mode . If you're used to the standard 'Grand piano' setting, it's almost as if they used an inferiour sound sample or a bad upright. But who puts it in 'Upright' mode anyway ?

I rather like the upright piano - it's nostalgic for me as I grew up playing an upright.

It's great for playing New Orleans style jazz, soul, and funk.

James
x

HELLO!
THE STRANGE NOISE reappeared IN MY CA65, is EVEN INCREASED. SO I HAVE DECIDED TO CALL SERVICE CENTER. THURSDAY will let you know IF THE PROBLEM WILL SOLVE. SERVICE CENTER THINKS THAT IS A DEFECT IN THE SPEAKERS. GOOD HOPE.
BUT I THINK IS NOT ONLY THIS, ALSO SOFTWARE PROBLEM. BYE.

Euhm, it seems to me THAT ON TOP OF THAT, YOU HAVE SOME PROBLEM WITH YOUR PC'S KEYBOARD !

WHAT ?!

( by the way, what is the consensus now; is the metallic sound part of the samples, or is it a fault on some units in the hardware - I'm a bit lost on that after all the Ca65 / ca95 posts) ?

Hi!

I don't know what it really is but the bad sound is very clear with some keys. It is a kind of a metallic sound or somethig like this. It sounds very awful.
I only hoppe for some solution to this issue.
We will see.

Hi!
Where did you call to? I'm in Sweden and I can't find a representative here. I bought my CA-65 from Germany.
Regards!

Yes, as it does sound "very awful" as you mention.

And, I have had the same issue with piano sounds that are not clear and very metallic or fuzzy. Read the thread, here:

http://www.pianoworld.com/forum/ubbthreads.php/topics/1983666/1.html

Not sure as of yet if this is a problem with the samples, or, speakers / soundboard / cabinet vibrations.

Hi Alejo,
Juhl-Sørensen has a department in Stockholm, and sell Kawai CA models. It might be worth a try to contact them?

See http://www.piano.se/digital/kawai/Kawaimodeller.htm

I bought my CA 95 from Juhl-Sørensen in Copenhagen, and they are very helpful.

I contemplated buying from Thomann, but chose Juhl-sørensen so I had support in Denmark. They had a price match guarantee, so I ended up with a relatively low price.

Regards,
Helge

Perhaps we can do a pol among CA-65/CA95 users.

In my understanding certainly not all owners experience problems ? Would be nice to know if it are just a few exceptions - however bad that is - and not part of the design and character of the CA series itself.

It would also be fair to potential buyers if it is only affecting certain units; now it may scare people off thinking all CA's are flawed. New thread proposal: " CA-65 / CA-95 poll: My unit is perfectly fine // My unit has a strange raspy sound or hum"

And than let's see how we fare. I hope happy owners with nothing to complain will also join in, cause there's always a bias on a forum for problem reporting vs satisfactory stories.

If there's any conclusion that I can get out of all stories, it is that Kawai may (that is a big may !) have to check their audio chain design , or components - like the amplifier / power supply / shielding and perhaps adjust some parts (on some units ?). The keybed and sound engine seem fine, just what comes out through the electrical system: power unit / amp / speaker system is not always as clean as it should be. At least that is what I understand from most postings and a bit from my own experience. Correct me if I'm searching in the wrong direction.

J

I don't doubt there are some odd artefacts within the samples - there always is with sampling. But I really think that is what this is all about. The numerous threads talking about what I would call characteristics (of Kawai DPs) rather than faults is getting a bit boring to be honest. For the record I have the MP10 and leaving aside personal preferences about pianos and the way they should and can sound, all is fine.

Cheers,

Steve

Steve, I'm inclined to agree with you.

As I believe I've mentioned in the past, the 'Concert Grand' sound used in all current (and previous) generation Kawai DPs is based on audio captured from the same Kawai EX Concert Grand recording session. Of course, more expensive models allow greater expression with longer, more detailed samples, however the core sound and tonal character is the same.

Therefore, I do not believe there are any problems with 'rasping' or 'metallic' artefacts in the sound. If was the case, we would have seen many complaints in the past from previous generation CN, CA, CS, CL, ES customers.

More likely, I get the impression that certain individuals are drawing attention to the slightest oddity or characteristic simply because they know that Kawai has a strong representation on this forum. It's seemingly far easier to go online and start a new forum thread about some minor grievance, than pick up the phone and call the dealer.

Cheers,
James
x

Steve, I'm inclined to agree with you.

As I believe I've mentioned in the past, the 'Concert Grand' sound used in all current (and previous) generation Kawai DPs is based on audio captured from the same Kawai EX Concert Grand recording session. Of course, more expensive models allow greater expression with longer, more detailed samples, however the core sound and tonal character is the same.

Therefore, I do not believe there are any problems with 'rasping' or 'metallic' artefacts in the sound. If was the case, we would have seen many complaints in the past from previous generation CN, CA, CS, CL, ES customers.

More likely, I get the impression that certain individuals are drawing attention to the slightest oddity or characteristic simply because they know that Kawai has a strong representation on this forum. It's seemingly far easier to go online and start a new forum thread about some minor grievance, than pick up the phone and call the dealer.

Cheers,
James
x

Hi James,

I basically agree. Unless people refer to a speaker or cabinet making a strange sound or hum (not the sound engine itself).

That is easy to check by using headphones. If the sound is still there it's most probably the character of the preset. If not , it could indicate an acoustical resonance (try moving the DP), or something else (broken speaker , loose wire, whatever).

By comparing experiences in a forum people can find out if things are 'normal' (same for all owners) and live with it, or indeed an abnormality in their unit. You could also call your dealer immediately, but for some:

1) the dealer is a web retailer, so no real useful service to expect when trying to check / explain certain behavior. Sending it back , when your not even sure there's something wrong is also not a great solution.
2) the dealer is many many miles away - may even be another country.
3) you don't want to bother your dealer right from the start, but first find out if others have the same experience and see what they think of it , or have found out. If necessary , you'll get your dealer involved.

So , yes - some of te whining may be over-sensitive owners who just cannot come to terms with their purchase. But others are genuinely discussing their findings and thoughts with respect to the product. As in all forums the negatives over shadow the positives, cause people are more inclined to post about something they don't like, than something they have nothing to complain about. That's just the way it works. Thats also why I'm curious about owners who are totally happy with their instrument. Let them be heard ;-) Puts things more in perspective. So no poll. But positive CA reviews please !

Just my thoughts, J

Terrific!

[high five]

I'm a very happy owner of the CA65 and I'm all for the proposed approach that everyone gives somes feedback, not only the negative.

Hi,

As I can recall, even the most squeamish CA65/95 owners concluded their critical posts stating that the CAxx is a great instrument. I have got even in PMs the same positive feedbacks with recommendation to buy.

It is no bashing when some experienced people are referring to or demonstrating some real issues (a la DPBSD) helping to support objective quality measures and criteria. (If a feature is possible with SW-Pianos for 150$, it is a legitimate expectation for a higher end product for 3000$.) Such reported issues should be picked up and processed by the manufacturers eagerly as a valuable feedback. If possible, they should answer them accordingly quickly and transparent (with information whether they see a SW update as a possible solution, with timing information, or at least whether they consider it a design issue, a single case or a no-issue).

Even big SW manufacturers like Microsoft have a ticket system where you can track reported issues.

Buying a DP is similar as becoming a SW-user: You should plan ackquisition and ownership of a DP ideally for a limited life-span only, calculate with amortisation, need for update. Just as with cars. You do not buy a perfect art object but a tool built on a continuously developing technology. It should best fit for your momentarily needs and preferences and means for a given time - no more. Your decision involves finding your right trade-offs.

I see, we have also responsibility: writing reports, opinions is easy an can make unnecessary and unwanted harm to important manufacturers - we all should consider this very carefully while writing about negative aspects.

Speaking of the DPBSD thread, I notice that no one has yet submitted a DPBSD file to dewster from one of these new Kawai's. Someone should do that, so we can talk about the sounds in a little more quantitative way.

Not entirely true, but there was a flooding, power failure and plenty of work to do (as I understood), so be a bit more patient...it'll come eventually.

@James , yes high five, shoot me ! Positive feedback is coming in - brace yourself ;-)

James

When I posted of the single note being different, it was not to draw attention from Kawai's excellent representation, nor excellent service.

Just simply to see if anyone else had it, and maybe had the fix.

I really believe it is some small item that is loose inside and resonates with only that one note. Adjust or tighten, and all is well.

If this continues, and others that play piano and have better hearing than I do, I may call the dealer to arrange for a service call.

As Always - Thanks for all the attention you offer on this Forum.

Hi Helge!
Thanks a lot for your tips. I will try to take contact with them.
Tack och vi hörs!

Alejo

Hi Everybody,

I want clarify some ideas about this topic because some people here want that all opinions will be like a kind of “New age” comments with peace and love feeling.
I’m engineer at a big company here in Sweden and we are many engineers working in soft- and hardware. When a customer has a complaint or something goes wrong we try to solve it. It’s not enough to explain to the customers about all efforts from our engineers and how much job they dedicated: They bought a product with quality and they demand a solution for the issues that they are suffering.
When Toyota finds a defect in their cars, they recall a lot of cars: millions of units in the whole world. Instead to explain in a forum or mass media about the efforts and very hard work from their engineers, they act. They work to find a solution to the issues and apply it.
A customer buy a product expecting a certain quality according to the price that he/she is paying for. As engineer I experience this situation very often.
Nowadays, ”after sales management” is as important as “introducing sales management” and companies that don’t understand that don’t have a long future.
And Toyota is only one example. Many DP manufactures act pro-active to keep a good quality and image and others only try to find excuses invoking feelings about the respect for them that works very hard to produce a good product. But what about the respect to the customer that bought a product with some issues? If one demands respect, needs to give respect reciprocally.
Of course, I can talk in a “new age way” and describe only positive characteristics but it would be like cover my eyes to don’t see the reality.
I'm very happy with my CA-65 but I need to say at the same time that some notes in “Grand piano” sound very bad and this is a fact. I hear it and many others too. Everything else is like to not want to see the reality.

This is not an absolute truth only my humble opinion.

Cordially,

Alejo

Yes, do agree with what you have said as the CA95 has similar problems.

Alejo_Sweden, may I ask if you have reported the issue you are experiencing to your Kawai dealer?

This should really be the first point of contact.

Kind regards,
James
x

Nicely put Alejo! I truly think there is a problem with some of the CA65's and CA95's only because my CA95 has NO ISSUES! I am very, very picky about sound and I can't find anything "Wrong" with my CA95. I think the treble is a bit bright, but I can adjust that, however, it's hasn't bothered me enough to do so. I played the older CA93's and the new CA95 doesn't even compare. I have to wonder if it is the product or perhaps the acoustics in the room. My CA95 sounds so nice, I actually prefer it to my Grand and I can't say why, except I love it at so many levels...

I have heard metallic sounds on the Yamaha's and Roland pianos, but I can't find a fault with my CA95.

If there is a problem with the unit, then I agree that Kawai should recall the product, but what if it's not and a problem with the consumer's acoustics or a headphone issue? I'm not saying it is, but it would be surely costly to recall the product if there's not a problem. Not everyone is having these issues and I'm very happy that I'm not, but I think Kawai should get to the bottom of these issues.

Good luck!

I got my CA65 a week ago. I am very happy with the piano and really can't find anything wrong with it. I am really glad i ordered it before I read some of the last comments about the "bad" sound, since I would probably not risk to order one if I had read them. I bought my piano without testing it (only tested the ca63).

One thing I had to adjust is the Virtual Tech settings for "Key-off effect" and "Fall-back noise". I think these effects are too loud using the default settings, and turned them down to level 1. Maybe less "realistic" that way, but certainly sounds better.

I'd just like to say JFP that you've got this spot on, at least in my case. I'm starting to feel a bit guilty that my only comments on this fabulous product have been related to a query about something that troubles me! There are many things about the CA65 that I love; this is why I bought it. To list a few just for balance:

0) The feel of the full length keys

1) Three sensors enabling repeat playing of a note without letting the damper fall back

2) Damper and String resonance (probably appeals to my engineer's mind more than my musician's brain!)

3) User-settable hammer delay which models the slow movement of the hammer when playing pianissimo. This, combined, with the grand feel action, really can make this feel like an acoustic piano.

4) User-settable sustain and una corda pedal response

5) Great piano sounds and variable acoustic for each one

I have *lots* of questions I'd like to ask though, most out of sheer curiosity. If I ask them in another thread, I might link to this reply (if I can!) to place them in their proper context.

Cheers

Alan

Hi everybody!

I have now tested my CA-65 using the Art Vista Grand Piano without any issues. I tested this with internal and external speakers and with my headphones: PERFECT!
So now I know more about this issue and what I need to do to solve it.
My meaning writing this wasn’t to raise a controversy about Kawai as company, only to solve an issue with my CA-65. Talking with my dealer it has given me more problems than solutions. Now I found one with Art Vista.
For my part this case is closed but I got at the same time a good learned lesson for the future.
Thanks to everybody that tried to help me with this issue.

Cordially,

Alejo

hallo!
i have reported the issue i'm experiencing to my Kawai dealer.
the technician came and he was very puzzled.
he has decided that to need change the "motherboard" (if i have good understood). he said thet it's not a issue in ampifier. I hope that the problem can be solved because, you have to believe me, in high-volume, unfortunately, my piano ca65 can not be plaied.
I am very sad.

Don't think you need to be very sad... If the technician acknowledged that he needs to change the motherboard, and that doesn't do the trick you will most certainly get a new one under the guarantee.

To you all: Fist of all thank you for discussing these things in such detail! I have started playing piano a few months ago on a rented CL 36, not knowing whether I'd stick to it or not.
Well, I WILL stick to it for sure. And having decided to actually buy a digital piano I went to the dealer and tried out quite a few.

What it boiled down to was the CA-65 and the new CA-15. For my personal taste the two Kawais are the ones that suit me most, in particular the keyboards.

What I did notice though was a difference in certain sounds. The two instruments were facing each other, such that I could hit the notes simultaneously or immediately one after the other. It became clear, not only to me but also the dealer and a few other people around, that the sounds were different. Most prominently we noticed this with the octave beginning with the middle C.

While another customer found the CA-65 nicer, I found the sound of the CA-15 nicer - a matter of taste. However, the CA-65 to me has a much more comfortable keyboard, in particular playing between the keys. The dealer was a bit surprised that the sound was different, as he expected all Kawai sounds to be generally the same, the newer ones being of course more detailed and realistic. He supposed that it may be due to a difference in sound generation and will check with Kawai if such difference is known.

While waiting for his answer I found this thread.

My questions are:

i) has maybe anybody tried such a direct comparison, too, and if yes, did you notice a difference?

ii) has anybody found certain settings within the virtual technician which brings the CA-65 closer to the CA-15 that we could try out? (unlikely, I believe, but just asking)

iii) has there may been any news with respect to the original subject of the thread, since the description of the sound characteristic seems similar to what my personal hearing noticed.

Maybe someone happens to have some info on these things, that would be great.

If it wasn't for the difference in sound I'd go for the CA-65 straight away because of the keyboard. At the moment I favour the CA-15, which also has a great keyboard I must say, but the difference to the CA-65 to me is noticeable and I'm afraid that some regret will persist if I buy the CA-15.

Cheers

Piano Rookie

CA15 has a two generation older (assumably simpler, using less HW ressources) built in sound engine, than the CA65. (PHI -> UPHI -> HI-XL)

You should be able to compare these through headphones.

Amp/Boxes may be favorable for one or the other, with regard to your personal taste.

Yeh - the PHI is indeed older, but...as far as I know based on the same sample set. I understood UPHI has one extra velocity layer (of course smoothed by the PHI processing) , so you might notice that when you compare them hitting fff back to back due too different samples being played. Perhaps the HI-XL has even more layers, or simply just longer samples. Anyway - in my understanding the two are still based on the very same recordings and sample set. Differences may occur due to :

- other sound imaging of the cabinet / speakers / placement of the DP in the room (try compare them over the same headphone !!)
- other velocities being played, hard to hit the exact same level on both instruments
- other preset and / or other programming of the preset ; meaning other Virtual Technician settings.
- other effect sound ; try comparing them completely dry !

If there is indeed a difference in the samples being used between PHI , UHPI en HI-XL (apart from length and maybe an extra layer), perhaps James can clarify. Then you don't have to tear your hairs out on this any longer , doubting if what you hear is true or imaginary. Is that classified and top secret info , James ? Not asking the source code of the processing, just if it is possible there are indeed other base samples being used here and there , between PHI en HI-XL.

This is not correct. UPHI requires twice as much memory as PHI.

The default 'Concert Grand' sound for HI, PHI, UPHI, and HI-XL all utilise the same source audio recordings. However sample lengths, degree of expressive detail, amount of memory, and quality of processing differ considerably from entry-level (e.g. CL26) to flagship (e.g. CA95) models.

Kind regards,
James
x

I can attest to the noisy sound on some notes of my CA65.
It is heard in the voices of Grand Piano, Studio Grand, Mellow Grand, Jazz Grand, Upright Piano.
It looks like a quiet rattle, squeak, "bzzzz" and this can be heard in the headphones and speakers.
It should be noted that on the votes of Concert Grand 2, Studio Grand 2, Mellow Grand 2, Jazz2 e.t.c the noise can be heard.
I think this is the result of poor performance synthesizer or effects circuit, no amplifier and speakers. No other music or sounds do not give this noise. I have playing on CA65 mp3-files, and did not hear any noise, even at very high volume. I have played all organs, e-pianos voices, assuming that there is some resonance frequencies corresponding to those notes. No, the only reason is a synthesizer or sound samples.
As is clear, the problem occurs, the case is not unique. We are waiting for an explanation from the representatives of the Kawai.

PS. If necessary, I can make a recording of these notes sounds, which will be heard the noise.

To clarify are you already in contact with your Kawai distributor and/or Kawai Europe? If so, I would certainly recommend providing recordings of the sounds you hear. It may also be worth turning all of the Virtual Technician enhancements off.

Kind regards,
James
x

Hi James,

thanks for this suggestion! We didn't try that. What the dealer did however was a "factory reset" in order to make sure the sound was not due to someone having changed the settings of the VT. However, this probably does not turn off the settings but just activates the defaults.

Is there a way to turn off all additional effects in a simple way or has this to be done for each individual setting? I would try that out next time I go to the shop (it's further away so I can't just drop by)

Cheers

Piano Rookie

I would suggest to turn off the noises for pedals, dampers, strings at first - these produced the most disturbing bad by-sounds with my SW pianos, producing unnatural "pneumatic" sounds like whahh of chorus effects.

(I turned it off with my VD, however, I am more willing to bring up a forgiving attitude towards SW pianos, when they are not optimized with a certain MIDI controller, than to a DP, which should have been tested as a package by the manufacturer.)

Each setting must be adjusted individually.

Kind regards,
James
x

Update: The dealer has checked with Kawai:

i) The reason for the difference in sound between the CA-15 and the CA-65 is said to mainly be the different type of amp/speaker system. The (grand piano) sounds should essentially be of the same character.

ii) Thanks mainly to the built-in equalizer it should be possible to tune the sound of the CA-65 such that the two instruments will match - within acceptable errors bars, I assume, but that would be perfectly fine with me. He will verify this using the instruments in his shop. If the result is positive my progress bar of buying a CA-65 is at 99%.

@Kawai James: In the meantime there are a couple of questions which came to my mind:

i) Is it in general thinkable on the software side to update the musical data of the instruments in the years to come, e.g. to add or replace existing samples by newer and (better?) ones?

ii) If I understand correctly the samples recorded from the Kawai Grand Piano are used for all the grand piano sounds in the CA-65. Is it possible to say from which actual instruments the other sounds (e.g. uprights) have been sampled?

iii) Are there preset configurations available, which can be loaded onto the CA-65? I understand that all settings have to be adjusted individually. With the number of these settings being quite high the combinations are numerous and I suspect that it takes a long time to figure out a good configuration. This of course depends on the local situation and personal taste, but it may be good to have some pre-defined points to start from.

It would be great if it is possible to get some information on these things.

Cheers

Piano Rookie

Update: I ended up buying the CA 65 and am very happy with it.

I'll have to tune the settings but that's ok.

Cheers

Piano Rookie