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well I can assure you do hear hammers on NU1 with volume set high. even with the 280 (which is closed but don't isolate very well), volume of the nu1 set at maximum.
to the point the noise hammers are making can get as important as the notes you are playing when playing soft parts in the highest third of the keyboard.
with the shure 840, you barely hear hammers, it makes a whole difference in my opinion as even if you get used to hammer sounds it kind of kills the atmosphere of a quiet part.

NU1 action makes much more noise than other DPs, the resonnance of hammers in the piano is important to be precise.
it really make sense to consider isolation when buying headphones for such a piano.

after reading many reviews, it seems Shure 940 have less bass and sound much clearer than 840, so I will give it a go, could be the perfect solution for me.

Interesting experiences there. Since it is so different from my own it makes me wonder how good/bad/different your NU1's headphone output is compared to my MP10s.

I typically use Shure 840s and also used Sennheiser HD600s for a while.

I've noticed that when I use my own headphones (or the AKG and even the Yamaha ones provided by the store) with the N1/2/3 or NU1, I have to turn the volume control right to the maximum to get anything approaching the realistic volume I'd expect if I was playing a real piano, and even then it's still not quite there. On my V-Piano (and other Rolands), I only need to turn the volume dial to its mid-point. I get the feeling that with most headphones, you need a booster (or whatever you call those gadgets that increase the strength of the signal) to use with those Yamahas.

i have both open and closed style phones and my favorite- by a long-shot are my Sennheiser HD 600's:

http://www.amazon.com/Sennheiser-Dy...1&keywords=sennheiser+headphones+600

they are somewhat expensive, but they are really light, very cool and you can wear them for a long time without "ear fatigue". Their sound reproduction is gorgeous, very balanced and neither bright nor mellow.

i have a pair of Audio Technica ATHM50S that are of the closed variety.

http://www.amazon.com/Audio-Technic...3&keywords=audio+technica+headphones

They are much more isolating, a bit bright tonally, and i can only handle them for about 30 minutes to an hour before my ears scream for freedom. They are far more reasonably priced, and there are other versions under $100 that are also very nice. If my semi-deaf mother-in-law is upstairs watching reruns of Andy Griffith at max volume, the AT's are the ticket. otherwise i prefer the HD's- which are almost effortless to wear and sound as if you aren't even wearing phones.

I've owned some AKG 240's in the past and while good, i found they were overly bassy and colored to the mellow side....

This is not true. Yes there is some mechanical noise from the NU1 keyboard, but it is not particularly loud, and it is not the key bottoming thump that can be quite loud with PHAIII on many Rolands stage and console DP's; and also the thump on older Casio such as PX130/330. I don't know about Yamaha GH or GHS but would say Kawai still set the mark in terms of quiet actions though. It's usually a none issue for most players with speakers and headphones, but maybe an issue for unwilling non-playing listeners when the player has headphones, and obviously is an issue for stephane. All IMHO.

I haven't played the NU1, but I have played other avantgrands and I'm inclined to agree with stephane. The noises are quite different from the loud bottoming out of the Rolands and low whump of the Kawai wood actions, but in my opinion they (the hybrid actions) are the most distracting of all the digital piano actions. I recently went to a piano store with the intention of buying their AvantGrand (they were going out of business). I had the money and wifely permission but I just could not tolerate the racket the action makes, so I passed.

Unless the NU1 is significantly quieter than the other AvantGrands, I would consider it a noisy action.

well sorry if it is getting a little off topic here

spanishbuddha, please I can't let you close this with a definitive "this is not true."
from my experience, going from a roland RP101 to the NU1 the difference is honestly night and day, I am aware the RP101 was not the noisiest of them all, but I got the same feeling from other I tried at the store.

I don't know if you do own an NU1/avantgrand but if you tried them in store, you probably wouldn't tell how loud it is as I did myself. It struck me only when the piano arrived home.
I have tried many other actions in store (yamaha, roland, kawai...), but it is not possible to judge properly in such conditions, so I can't tell accurately.

the difference between RP101 and NU1 I have had at home is just obvious. newer actions such as RM3 or PHAIII must be louder than RP101's action being wooden keys with double escapement but I would be very surprised it is as loud as nu1/Ns.
you are comparing this (PHAIII):


to this (nu1, see after 1:30):
[video:youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=OuQM1HSS608[/video]

not only the action mechanism itself is much bigger, the hammer hitting you on top of this of course can't be silent and is making most of the noise. add to this the piano acting as a resonnance box being much larger (not sure it translates well in english sorry, you should get the idea).

of course I might be wrong, as I don't have another piano home to compare but then it doesn't change my point on the need for well isolated headphones

There actually has been a post on this very forum about an avantgrand user (or was it grantouch) who got complaints from his downstairs neighbours and couldn't play at night. I thought he must have very picky neighbours when I tried these pianos in store as it didn't seem very noisy at all. then when the piano arrived at home I realised it does make sense. I won't ask my neighbours if they hear vibration but I wouldn't be surprised they do hear it, I guess it wouldn't be loud though unless I play fortissimo, which I avoid doing at night.
several friend actually asked me right away if it was ok to play at night when they tried my NU1.

still I don't want to sound as it is a turn down on these amazing pianos. It is much more reasonable that you might think reading my post, but to get back on topic with open headphones it definitely is an issue.

OK. Stephane and gvfarns thanks, let's just agree to disagree.

I agree with this:

but do not agree with this

where I interpreted the word 'more' to be 'louder' so sorry if I misinterpreted what you said. But I maintain it is not louder, than all other DPs, maybe some. I added the word all there not you.

However as you and gvfarns say there is more of a 'clatter' going on. Just like an acoustic, and people who like the smooth quiet actions, from the Kawai's at least, might not like it at all.

Actually I think the discussion is interesting in another way, I have learnt mostly on a Casio PX330, Kawai CN33 and FP7F. The Kawai action is smooth, quiet, responsive, and very good. The FP7F action is hard but also quite good, although noisier than the Kawai. But having just started piano lessons with a teacher who has an acoustic the difference in feel is like night and day, and the NU1 action is closer to the acoustic. None are better than the other in absolute terms, except for their specific instruments purpose, just different! and people have different preferences.

Sorry for going so OT and I wish you best in the search for noise isolating headphones.

Does this suggest that headphones used with the NU1 would benefit from a headphone amp?

Seems likely, although the Shures are really easy to drive (I can use them straight out of a Sanza Clip+ with no problems or lack of volume).

Alternately, it may be that the NU1's headphone output is just rubbish, or it might just be that the Shures don't fit their preferred sound signature.

Always a bit hard to know since we all hear just a bit differently.

if using the nu1 sounds, I personnaly set volume at maximum, it sounds just right to me. the output is not rubbish, just not very loud.

Still I actually never play with internal sounds, I am using galaxy and emotional piano virtual instruments all the time (sounds way bettter), so I adjust volume on my audio interface instead. I tend to ajust it slightly higher than nu1 so it covers hammer sounds.
again with the right headphones this is a non issue. also if you don't use an headphone amp, you should consider headphones with low impedance, the DT770 I tried was the 250ohm version and is clearly not loud enough.

Pardon my ignorance, can somebody please explain me the difference in using
32 ohm, 80 ohm, 250 ohm or 600 ohm headphones on a digital piano.

Thanks.

I asked a friend of mine who has a degree in Electrical Engineering about a similar issue I had when making a choice between two different headphones (and their impedance rating).

Here's what I asked him ...

I would like to compare two different headphones based on their specifications. My primary concern is if my electric piano can drive the one set of headphones loud enough.

At the moment I’m using a set of AKG 240 MKII - 91 dB/mW, 104 dB/V … 55 ohms impedance My electric piano’s volume control for these headphones is past 12 o’clock (it goes to 3’oclock). I can even crank the piano wide open and play. In other words, these headphones are just efficient enough for my use. I would prefer to be able to crank the volume more but this combination is adequate.

The headphones I’m thinking of buying are the Sennheiser HD 650’s. What information I can get from Sennheiser is this, 103 dB (1 Vrms) … 300 ohms.

I don’t know the output of the headphone amp for the piano. Can you deduce from what I’ve given if you think the HD 650’s could be driven loud enough by the piano? If they were both 55 ohms I would think the Sennheiser would be possibly slightly louder, one dB, but it is 300 ohms, I’m concerned … and I don’t feel like buying a headphone amp. In that case I ‘d just keep the AKG’s and be done with it.


... and his reply

(from Wikipedia)
In electrical engineering, the maximum power transfer theorem states that, to obtain maximum external power from a source with a finite internal resistance, the resistance of the load must be equal to the resistance of the source as viewed from the output terminals. Moritz von Jacobi published the maximum power (transfer) theorem around 1840, which is also referred to as "Jacobi's law".[1]
The theorem results in maximum power transfer, and not maximum efficiency. If the resistance of the load is made larger than the resistance of the source, then efficiency is higher, since a higher percentage of the source power is transferred to the load, but the magnitude of the load power is lower since the total circuit resistance goes up.
If the load resistance is smaller than the source resistance, then most of the power ends up being dissipated in the source, and although the total power dissipated is higher, due to a lower total resistance, it turns out that the amount dissipated in the load is reduced.

So, to get maximum power transfer your source impedance (piano's amplifier output) must equal the load impedance (headphones). However, your existing headphones have a much lower impedance than the anticipated new headphones which probably means that you will see better efficiency (and higher perceived volume) from the new headphones since it takes less current to drive a 300 ohm load than a 55 ohm load.

Hope this helps.

Low impedance phones may be louder than high impedance phones.

600 ohm phones will likely be so faint as to require a headphone amplifier.
250 ohm phones might be, too.
80 ohm phones likely will not need one.
32 ohm phones will not.

Hi, I'm looking for a good stagepiano for my headphones ;-)

So for a stage piano, what would be the advantage of having a
250 ohm or 600 ohm headphone with a headphone amp, over a
32 ohm headphone?

If you like the particular sound of a headphone that alone is the advantage, right?

I found this guide useful:

http://www.head-fi.org/t/513393/guide-sonic-differences-between-dt770-dt990-models-more

I found this ... AKG Tips
Headphones impedance

The two important electrical specifications for a pair of headphones are the impedance of the phone transducer itself and its on-the-ear sensitivity.

So-called low impedance headphones may vary from 75 ohms up to about 150 ohms. Phones in this impedance range may be directly plugged into the headphone jack routinely found on recording and playback equipment. Higher impedances, such as 600 ohms, are more useful in studio installations where many units may be wired in parallel for studio monitoring applications.
Headphone sensitivity is usually stated as the in-the-ear sound pressure level produced by one milliwatt (mW) of audio input. Typical sensitivity ratings of AKG headphones run from 88 dB per mW to 105 dB per mW. You can see that very little power is needed to drive a stereo headphone pair to very high listening levels.

Doing a little bit of math will show that a signal of .775 Vrms will produce one mW in a 600 ohm load. That same signal will produce 8 mW in a 75 ohm load, a difference of about 9 dB. So it is clear that 600 ohm phones and the lower impedance models should not be intermixed in the same application. The 600-ohm models are more rugged than low impedance models in that the higher resistance coils are less susceptible to burn out than low impedance models.
To produce 200 mW in a 600-ohm load a signal of 11 V is needed. This shows that the advantage of high impedance headphones is that they can be used with almost any amplifier output without any risk of being damaged by overload, and you can connect up to 10 or more pairs to the same output. However, they may be not loud enough with some portable recording devices.
Low impedance headphones will sound louder with devices with low output voltages such as portable MD recorders etc., you cannot use more than one pair of headphones at the same output simultaneously.

just tested a couple other headphones which ended to be my favorite of all tested before, next to sennheiser 280.

Audio technica ATH m50:
I read very different reviews of this one but as most were very positive I decided to give it a go despite the fact it seemed to accentuate bass.
I'm glad I did, I love these headphones. the bass is indeed a little too pronounced but it is not a muddy overwhelming bass, it doesn't get over other frequencies much so the low notes stay very clear.
at the same time I don't get the same impression when listening to music where I feel the bass is not that good. it just seems to somehow marry with the piano much better.

shure 940 : MUCH better than 840, better balance and very clear sound. I really like this one. the lower range is better than ATH50, I tend to find the rest a bit less interesting, but they sound very close, the 940 just sounds a little muted in comparison. these headphones have much more presence than 280, not as transparent but more relaxing to my ear as the 280 is obviously very treble-ish

all in all I can't decide between the two so they are the 2 pairs I am keeping.
I am a bit disapinted I didn't find the perfect headphones but they wouldn't be far from these last two to me which are the closest to 280 clarity, less transparent but with better balance.