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To the OP: I, sir, consider my own opinion to be paramount and above question from anyone.

Steve- I think you're right about Steinway SMP. To me, it seems they one of the only companies with that strong a brand recognition/perceived value that could get away with what you have described. I think of this like Ferrari or Lamborghini-- might not be the absolute best cars on the road, but the perceived brand value and recognition is high enough and their production limited enough that they do not need to discount their products in order to sell out the line.

"Steinway bashing" -- I think it should be important to distinguish objective discussions from subjective bashing. What some may consider the "bashing" of the Steinway brand may simply be an honest opinion about the state of their company/brand. I, for one, believe they make one of the greatest pianos on the market, but I am not blinded to the idea of being critical about their product or their company.

Isn't odd how some items have name value..Steinway,Rolex,Rolls Royce,..yet items that have
true monetary worth, gold ,silver, diamonds, are not helped by a "brand name"
pianos, watches, cars, only have a "percieved value"...

Marty,

I was referring to the fact that when I bought my Estonia 190 I paid about $25K (5-6 years ago). I saw prices for a Steinway M of over $50K yet I considered the Estonia the better piano. For me the Estonia was a far better value.

My only mistake was projecting my personal experience as the experience of any decent pianist when shopping instruments. Based on what I've read on this forum since I joined more than a decade ago I don't feel that was unreasonable. I've played some wonderful Steinway pianos, but none of them was what I'd consider a bargain.

hah. A funny read, thanks for sharing

How did the thread title switch all of a sudden to "Hey Steinway Dealer" ?

The $50K for the Steinway M breaks down as follows:

-- $25K for a good, well built little piano
-- $25K for the name on the fallboard

Steinways are wonderful pianos. I always enjoy trying them out at the store. But when I see a price tag of $54K and higher for a brand new S - and remember that the price keeps going up every year - I simply shake my head is disbelief.

Did anyone notice the unspoken myth?



Some bias might be had.

I am particularly fond of the industry term, "poopie".

Steve,

First, forgive me for pointing out, but in spite of your statement above I doubt that you are 'speaking here as a representative of piano buyer'.

You may have done a good job in the advertizing department, but I'm sure that Larry Fine has a way of separating the advertizing department from the content...and here, my friend, we definitely deal with content.

Second, and the reason I decided to chime in here, is because somehow you seem to turn selling at higher than normal margins into a virtue.

Since the SMP is largely based on wholesale cost, if between two pianos of similar SMP one is offered at a 20% discount while the other at only 5% discount... it means that the latter is simply sold at a higher margin.

If one gets from the selling dealer a substantially better service, piano preparation or special care I can understand that it may be reflected in the price.

However, I don't think that there is an advantage to the service and preparation offered by Steinway dealers over many other quality dealers that are able to operate average industry margins.

And finally, if you decide to discount by only 5% at your dealership...you may find that your sales too can drop by 60% over a few short years!

Just something to think about.

How did we get this far off topic???

So, the fact that Steinway is honest about their prices is a negative?

It seems to me all Steve did was explain that when using the SMP one should only expect a 0-10% discount for a Steinway compared to a larger discount from other makers. I see absolutely nothing in his statement that says this is good, bad , or anything in between.

He was explaining why the Steinway vs. Steingraeber actual selling prices could be far different from what one would expect if one incorrectly assumed that the typical selling prices would involve the same discount form SMP. In fact, as a Steingraeber dealer, I would have expected that his explanation would be welcomed by you because some readers of the PB don't read it's explanation of SMP very carefully and would wrongly assume that the selling price of the Steingraeber model mentioned, because of its higher SMP, would be much higher than the Steinway.

So, if someone came in and offered to buy a Steingraeber for the SMP the dealer would refuse the offer?

Ori,

1st, Larry has authorized me to represent him and Piano Buyer contentually on Piano World and has posted that here many times.

That said, I agree with the points you make. I do not think that selling at a higher margin in a virtue. I also don't think that there is an advantage to the service and preparation offered by Steinway dealers over many other quality dealers that are able to operate average industry margins.

I would even go so far as to use you and others in the NYC market as examples... I have seen the way many NYC dealers prepare, and market their lines and find a consistently high-quality prep, and reasonable margins within your market.

I am not sure how honest Steinway is about the prices on their pianos, from the discounting perspective anyway. Where I am, the Steinway dealership regularly puts on sale the piano that never goes on sale. I agree that the discount is not at the same percentage as many other brands, but the idea that Steinways are not discounted and never go on sale is not in my opinion in accord with the facts.

This is not important, however, at least in my view. What is important is what piano one loves and whether one can afford it. All the discounting in the world would not have persuaded me to buy a piano I did not love, nor would all the chatter about investment value or anything else have convinced me to hand over the money for a piano unless it called out to me as a piano first and foremost.

With Steingraeber, like Steinway, the SMP = MSRP. So, unless there is a waiting list for a particular model, they would take the offer. At the dealership here, the actual selling price is not lowered by as large of a percentage as there would be on other brands. From discussions with other high end sellers, this seems to be the case with all of the very upper level, "elite name," instruments.

The PB gives the discount range for Steinway a 0-10%.

+ 1

Norbert

Not sure what you mean here.

If you mean there is less or no bargaining room, I don't think that necessarily implies honesty. It just means that customers at Steinway can't expect bargaining to get them a far as for dealers of other makes. If you mean that Steinway doesn't give inflated MSRP then I would agree with you, although the Piano Buyer/Piano Book has been around for so long that many people probably realize by now that MSRP is irrelevant. If Steinway was being very upfront about their prices, they might say that they have a bigger markup from dealer cost than most other makes.

Upon what do you base this statement? Are you privy to Steinway documentation concerning the per unit/invoice cost to their dealers?