Piano World Home Page Forums Our Most Popular Forums Pianist Corner Chopin the lowest common denominator ?

Chopin，who's compositions, maybe the lowest common denominator, are over interpreted by irresponsible amateurs and not-so-good pianists and heard throughout the streets.

It seems that good works always descend their charm in this way, in different degrees.

And this really add addtional hurdle to me beside the complex music and technics.

Because of this, it's really an ordeal if I want to learn something, from the endless great compositions of Chopin, either by reviewing an played piece or stuyding a new one.

Do you experience this? And How do you deal with this?

Dunno....main thing I think of is that "Chopin" and "lowest common denominator" don't belong in the same sentence.

And I don't know what you mean by "overinterpreted." If you mean "not played that well," I'm with you -- but I think we could say the same about Mozart and Bach. Among others.

Am I throwing out an offensive/boring thread?

Maybe the situation is different in different places. But IMO it's just a problem of degree. It exists more or less in different degree all over the wrold.

Replay is hoped and rational criticism is welcome.

I don't think it's clear what you mean.

Do you mean that pieces are played too much and not too well? With emphasis on too much?

Common (denominator) -> many "ordinary" pianists play Chopin
Low -> on a low level (not too well)
Is this what you mean?

Chopin is an incredibly difficult composer to interpret. This could be why you aren't satisfied with most performances (neither am I to tell you the truth), but I would never blame Chopin! It really takes a masterful performance to make Chopin tolerable for me, but when I find those performances, the effect it has on me personally is so powerful.

Maybe, more precisely, I should say they're the "lowest common denominator in classical piano works", because of the easy-arisen sympathetic response and easy-approached emotions in the works of Chopin, urging not-so-good(technicall or scholarly or tastely) pianists to spoil them.

And Morzar and Bach are in the different situation.

Anayway, I believe you know what I'm talking about and I'm sure I'm with you, Mark.

I really didn't, and I'm still not sure I do, because in no way do I think most people "over-interpret" Chopin, not even poor pianists. (If anything I think they under-interpret him.) I offered what I thought you might have meant, but I guess that's not it....

I'm not blaming Chopin, my dear.

I'm certainly glad to hear that.

Let's see if others can do better than I did in trying to answer....

So, if I may try to simplify, you're saying that the 'easy-listening' quality of Chopin's music results in an increased popularity amongst immature listeners/players?

Emphases are:
1、too much heard
2、too badly played
3、(To some degree) the works are delicate and in 'base-emotion', and I as well as some scholars believe that complexity and sublime are naturally attractive to humanities.
4、1-3 are decending my interests on Chopin.
5、My head keep telling me that 'I should learn somthing from his works' and I'm suffering the procedure.
6、I want to know if anyone are suffering the same situation and how he/she deals with it.

By the way, I know definitely that, at any place and at any time, if I shoot Chopin I'll be shot to a honeycomb and I'm scared.

Feel sorry about that.
I should edit my words as: "over played " rather than " over interpreted ", in fact "over played" but " under interpreted".

Yep. But it's just a part of my thread.

If there are some pieces of his that you still like or love, despite the "descended" interest, maybe work on those. At least for the moment, forget about those that you don't.

Go to the scores, try to forget what you've heard that you thought was bad....in fact maybe try your best to forget how you've ever heard it (impossible but do the best you can), and see what you can make of it.

Some hints that will help keep you far away from the worst that you've heard:

-- Avoid playing the left hand too loud. How loud is too loud? Well, if you play it as softly as you can stand, you're probably pretty close to being good. Anything significantly louder is probably too loud.

-- Work hard on degrees of piano and pianissimo. Most bad Chopin playing consists of very little below mf, and way too much "loud."

-- Especially the left hand.

-- Make sure the melodies have some shape, as though they were being sung rather than being played on a mechanical instrument, which is what a piano is. Pay attention especially to phrase endings, as though you are leading up to a breath. I guarantee you that every pianist whose Chopin you have loved was terrific at phrase endings, and that those whose playing you hated, weren't.

-- Avoid rushing. Let every note have its due. Don't be afraid to linger a bit on beautiful notes, but don't overdo it -- that would be "over-interpreting."

-- Make sure the left hand isn't too loud.

Just do those things, and that oughta do it.

By the way, "the lowest common denominator" to me is a newly learned English phrase/slang and I'm reviewing and applying it, intending to be jokey and humorous.

And this dicussion will certainly help me to understand the phrase more precisely.

Forgive me if you feel that I use this forum to do something besides (seriously of course )talking about music.

I'm never intended to be offensive.

Thank you Mark. I find that you're a really clear-sighted musician besides a doctor.

The latest weeks I've been studying the 1st Chapter of Prokofiev's sonata No.2 and reviewing Chopin's 1st Bllade.

I hope you're glad to listen to and comment on my recording of the 2 pieces, which I'll submit later.

Might I add a growly bow-wow to the baleful Chopin Miau0
as Mark snappily responded ...
“lowest denominators/Chopin” just ain’t groovy!

Most of us play our Chopin with a heady passion ...
like blindly following the Pied Piper of Hamelin ...
not quite up to the standard of Ashkenazy perhaps ...
but in steadily finding the blissful notes, there is always the balmy hopefulness of one day getting it right.

"MiaoW" is a most beautiful and smart and tender fuzzy cat in my yard, and every week I spend hours, peacefully and joyfully, with him and caressing him.

Don't you think your spell, I mean your 'charm', 'Miauo', is a real bow-wow ?

And I think if you disagree with my opinion you're more politely to read through the posts and just critise my opinion, rather than myself, in a more rational way.

And you think your sublime Chopin has any priority and importance over my fuzzy MiaoW?