Piano World Home Page Forums Our Most Popular Forums Piano Tuner-Technicians Forum Any warning about changing hammers?

I know that Ron Overs, by experiment, verified that as crown is lost the soundboard edges do move in. I wouldn't be surprised if Del did a similar experiment.

Having known Del for many years, I can attest that his skin is pretty thick. One of his favorite stories is that many years ago, after teaching a class at a national PTG convention, a prominent PTG member told him "Every industry needs it's lunatic fringe - and YOU'RE IT!". He always says it with a smile on his face.

Personally, I didn't think BDBs post was that inflammatory. Nobody has all the answers here. Mistakes and misinterpretations have been made and will continue to be made by all who participate in this crazy business. That's what keeps it so interesting!

To answer the question about tonal range and the crown retention system, I'll go along with Marty and Roy's view that it contributes to M&H tone, for reasons such as the rim angle Keith mentioned.

So, why do earplugs clean up the sound, as Dan Silverwood put it, and allow Scep to hear the full tonal range of the piano? I suspect they must be cutting out a whole lot of high frequency tones in the attack that are drowning out the the upper partials of the notes being played, so that the ear does not hear them immediately.

The bridge and the soundboard generate these additional tones when they are excited by the strings. I think this is what Dan meant by a fixed tone instrument. You can change the vibrations in the strings by working on the hammers but your piano will then determine what sounds you hear.

I came across the following plots from an unnamed piano this evening in Research Report 8097, October 2012, by Juliette Chabassier, Antoine Chaigne and Patrick Joly. They show some of the upper partials (red circles) and piano tones (purple diamonds) from D1#, 38.8 Hz. You can see how the vibrations of the strings in (a) produce vibrations in the bridge (b) and the soundboard (c), resulting in the sound pressure waves we hear (d).

Very good. The technician can regulate what the human brain will hear by voicing out the unpleasant tones for the player or owner through the mallet that excites the wire to transmit the vibrations to the transmitter, the bridge.

Of course the goal is to rid the instrument of all unpleasant sounds. This is completed on a temporary basis by manipulating the hammer set and the amount of time it spends on the wire; the more soft the shoulder the more the hammer compresses and the longer it will linger on the wire.

This is often stated incorrectly as changing the tone. In truth it does change some of the tone; it gets rid of what you don’t want and brings out what you do want. The tone of the instrument basically remains the same; there is just more or less of some of the sounds emitted.

I could not disagree more. The two pianos you mention are enormously different.

I will offer, You are not in the business of working with these designs if you do not see or feel the difference.

Not at all. In a small room I can play as softly as I want to on the BB. I couldn't always do this(I would play ghost notes) until I adjusted my technique about 5 months ago.
Over the course of many lengthy threads you've gotten so many different opinions about what the "problem" is and how to fix it, I'd think that alone would make you extremely hesitant. The only time I think someone should buy a piano whose tone they don't like with the hope some fix might work is if they are not at all particular about the sound of the piano. You seem to be very particular so I think the chance you're taking is very high.

The only way I think this would make sense is if you're getting such a good deal on the Mason that you could have a good chance of selling it with minimal loss. You seem to be hoping in all these threads to get some major confirmation that your attempt to adjust the Mason's tone will work to your liking, but as far as I can see you haven't gotten anything like that kind of response.

But he's said many times on many threads that he doesn't like the piano as is. He's made it clear that he wouldn't be satisfied with the piano unless ome change in the tone could be accomplished.

Same size, 20 bass notes, 57 bass strings, some on the same auxiliary tenor bridge connected in exactly the same way. Too similar to be coincidence. The biggest difference is the tension resonator.

You're misquoting me. I said range of tonal colours, not tone. I like the tone. I wanted more range.

In any case, here's the update:

I bought the piano.

After listening to the recordings I'd made on three different occasions multiples of times, I've become more familiar with what this piano 'should' sound like. The tonal range, to my ears seems quite linear compared to other pianos, but not plain or restricted. At first, I thought that something was missing in the sound, but realized it simply was a different tone than I'm used to. I also realized that in comparing this BB to all other pianos I've auditioned is that every other piano was much brighter, and so they all had more presence in the recordings.

And frankly, I'm happy with the tone. Not because I have to be. I could have walked away from the deal. But, let me say, that I was really needing a tech to come look at this piano and give his opinion. So, that's indeed what happened tonight.

The tech I chose had tuned my Shigeru twice in the past, and has worked on a number of Masons in town. He's told me before that he doesn't really like Masons too much, and when I originally told him I sold my Shigeru to perhaps get a Mason he was quite surprised.
In any case, I wanted him to check out the Mason BB that I'd been asking about the hammers on, etc, etc.
He came, inspected everything--spending over two and a half hours with me, and he also played the piano to hear it, had me play it to hear it, and did some minor work on the keybed and other quick fixes. Long story short(er): he really liked the piano. He gave me a list of all the things wrong with it, but assured me they could all be fixed, with the exception of the fallboard that wouldn't close fully. He thought it may have warped over that last 6 years and was a bit worried why that would be so.
He also had no problem with me changing the hammers if I wanted to, and didn't bat an eye when I said I'd get them prehung.
It turns out that he had been a piano rebuilder for 7 years before he decided to tune for a living, and was confident that he could do many things to make this BB sound and feel even better than it does with regulation, hammer shaping and voicing.
All in all, the experience tonight was a very happy one. I thought that I may have found a piano that I'd have to compromise on, but in the end it has turned out even better than I'd expected.

Thank you so much to all the techs that have shared their experience and opinions on this thread. Although it is obvious that there is no consensus among you, it is clear that you are all dedicated professionals trying to help and guide in the best way you know how. Those who said I should address my questions to a local tech were right ( I never doubted that in any case), but the replies on this thread and the number of PM's I received from some individuals that believed that the Mason is a great piano, coupled with my tech who now likes Masons more, helped me with the final decision to purchase.

The end.

Now I just need to fit it in the elevator...

Congratulations.

Please tell us, in due course, how the regulation and voicing go, and what the sonorities of the piano bring to your playing.

Congrats! Look forward to hearing more of your recordings!