Piano World Home Page Forums Our Most Popular Forums Piano Forum Did u recommend me an Erard from 1950?

I can't seem to get the image of the Erard frame to pop-up but you can click on the link to get it going..

Dear acortot:

Your concert grand looks like my teacher's, which I believe was made in the 1890s. I never crawled under it, so seeing that amzaing zig-zag arrangement of cross-members is really a trip.

Thank you very much. I suspect that there are quite a few of those pianos in Italy.

Karl Watson

You're welcome!

They are mostly in france but there are quite a few in Italy, spain etc

By the way, while we're on the subject..I sometimes believe I can tell which composers composed on Erard by listening to the phrases.

The parallel Erards have a bit shorter decay and less boomy sound in general than a Steinway so the music tends to be busier with more 'finger action' for lack of a better term

The sound is also a bit more 'folky' or rustic because of the wood so maybe it does suggest another type of musical approach in a way.

I think Scriabin began on Erard as well

Find your required piano and for a price Hurstwood Farm in Kent UK will do just what you have written: infact they will probably have one or two pianos alreat modified and awaiting new owners.
You will easilly find their web site, it is either Hurstwood Farm or Phoenix-Steingreiber Pianos.

Thanks for the correction Finchley Park! I should spend a visit there.. I only heard this old Pleyel concert grand in a Youtube video - and, same: tears in my eyes. What a beautiful sound from heaven..

I definitely will evaluate Steingraeber pianos if I ever might buy another grand - maybe an original Steingraeber, or a Steingraeber modified by Hurstwood Farm, or a Steingraeber grand tuned by our forum colleague Larry Buck who does sound research together with Marc Wienert. Who both are intense knowers of the Steinway Centennial D also.

But maybe that there also might exist a method to modify a Centennial D. Thinner strings.. lighter hammers.. other hammer heads.. <dreaming>

The Centennial D sound is yet very good. But there exists nothing in the (technical) world which could not be improved a step further. Or get a development into specific direction.

Taking Theo Steinweg's masterpiece Centennial D as an excellent base for utmost fine pianos: Steinway eventually took (for the purposes of romantic piano to be performed in private salon..) a wrong direction..?.. Made them Brilliant. Loud. With high amount of higher partials.. ?? Asking.

Today I am very thankful because of this "Chopin sound" discussion. It gave me a lot of hints. I was fascinated by the expertise and knowledge of Acortot and his links to an italian specialist for old hammer heads. I started to read the Kriegelstein book about the musicology and methodology of Chopin being a piano teacher. Great reading stuff..

Who likes loud stage sound if he can perform Chopin's music in his living room on a good grand..?.. There is no goal reached. The way to fine sound itself is goal. So I am a happy man. THANKS to this great forum!

I must correct my mistake in my previous post - it is Finchcocks Park not Finchley.
My friend who drove me there is an excellent pianist and like me a retired teacher but he taught music whilst I taught engineering drawing.
Mr and Mrs Burnette who own the house, which is the piano museum, were great fun. They must be in their seventies but took us, and a bus load of mainly ladies, on a lively tour of the house, Mr Burnette played many of the pianos: making many wise cracks to smooth the show.
My friend was invited to help and he not only played but took the ladies for a singing class!
The museum closes for the winter I suppose this is because it must be difficult to heat the large building.
We were recomended to go to Finchcocks by the people at Hurstwood Farm - it seems they share a commom interest in the instrument.
At the house I bought a 1998 recording of ten different pianos all played by Mr Burnette. Gottschalk and Chopin are played on the 1842 Pleyel.
Changing the topic to the "engineering" side: I once, in S.Africa, had a Carl Ecke (birdcage)overdamped piano, it was made in about 1890 but had a fantastic tone. When I left Africa a friend took it to Australia ! I often think about finding another.
For the present I work on a 1956 Brock, I will probably fit new hammers,the existing I have not only had to reshape but they are only 10mm wide; I find that standard is 11mm.For interest I have streched strips of chammy leather over the felt and this has greatly pleased my ear! If you have live in a 3rd world country - Zimbabwe, you learn to improvise!

Dear acortot:

Here's a question for you or Del.

The older pianos that I played in France, although not models of perfect regulation, all sounded reasonably good, in tune and with good actions. For the record, the only straight-strung pianos I played were Erards from the period 1890-1910.

The thing I don't understand is that when I hear a youtube or professsional recording of vintage French pianos they are invariably clangy and out-of-tune and with a short sustain. That was not my impression of the older Erards and Pleyels that I played when I was a student in 1970.

Karl Watson

The vast majority of old french pianos are in a pitiful state, musically.

This due to people buying and selling old pianos in bad shape as being 'original' when they are simply worn and badly restored maybe a century ago

People use the pianos for museums, concerts and recordings but the restorations are usually limited and playability and sound inaccurate IMO

The piano techs who work on modern pianos hate the old French and English pianos because they are difficult to fix, often requiring disassembly of the wooden frame and custom parts. The pinblock is part of the frame and much harder to replace than modern pinblocks

The felts for hammers have been too hard for decades.

I talked to the man who is a third generation hammer refelter in Paris and he mentioned that he was more or less forced by piano techs who in their infinite wisdom demanded a brighter and louder sound from the old french pianos even though the design of the piano calls for a mellow woody tone

I think it's safe to say that the number of correctly restored pianos in the entire world is very, very small

How to fix this?

I am trying to inform the public so that when a piano broker or repairman sells his piano as being 'original' when in fact it is in pitiful state the buyer will not accept this and demand better work

But it's a battle because even museums and experts have done research which is inaccurate and highly misleading in my opinion.