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#1968193 - 10/03/12 11:05 AM Re: Garrick Ohlsson on pianos [Re: Rich Galassini]  
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Nope - the company representative in this country. Not legal action - but a "demand". So any mention of that company or it's products, whether complimentary or not have been deleted.

Ah, I see. I went back and looked at the thread in question. So you are saying that Yamaha or Kawai told you to delete your words. Interesting. Did you make the change, or did PW get threats? I realize I'm moving into dangerous territory here. Either way, we should know the rules. If a manufacturer can demand -- and get -- changes to our posts, that's interesting. We have had issues of this sort before, usually in response to threats of legal action against Piano World. But you say that you received no threat of legal consequences if you did not comply.

This seems rather OT from the Ohlsson story, I know. But I suppose the connection is the threat relationship.

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#1968207 - 10/03/12 11:58 AM Re: Garrick Ohlsson on pianos [Re: Rich Galassini]  
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Even if there is no specific threat of a law suit made, few posters would want to take the chance of being sued. Why go through all that potential hassle and expense?

OTOH if one looks hard enough through PW posts I think one can find some negative comments about almost every make out there, so it seems strange for a company or dealer to worry about this unless they thought the the comments were egregiously incorrect or were a negative subjective opinion stated as factual.

Last edited by pianoloverus; 10/03/12 11:59 AM.
#1968220 - 10/03/12 12:33 PM Re: Garrick Ohlsson on pianos [Re: BoseEric]  
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Originally Posted by BoseEric
So, BDB, what actually happened, in detail, since you appear to know


As I recall, Ohlssohn signed up for Steinway's artist program, which roughly says that in return for the artist's endorsement, the artist gets to use their pianos for the cost of moving and tuning. After he had done that, he picked one of their pianos for a concert in New York and it was delivered. Then he gave an interview, where the interviewer noted that he had a Bösendorfer. Ohlssohn called it the Rolls Royce of pianos in the interview. Steinway heard of that, and reclaimed the piano because he had endorsed a rival piano maker. Ohlssohn had not lived up to his side of the bargain. Had Ohlssohn paid to rent the piano, which I am pretty sure you can do, Steinway could not have reclaimed the piano without a lawsuit.

What came out of it was tighter standards for Steinway's artist program, and Ohlssohn no longer endorses pianos, something that more artists should do, in my opinion. So it is a different world today.


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#1968223 - 10/03/12 12:51 PM Re: Garrick Ohlsson on pianos [Re: Rich Galassini]  
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Originally Posted by Piano*Dad
Ah, I see. I went back and looked at the thread in question. So you are saying that Yamaha or Kawai told you to delete your words. Interesting. Did you make the change, or did PW get threats? I realize I'm moving into dangerous territory here. Either way, we should know the rules. If a manufacturer can demand -- and get -- changes to our posts, that's interesting. We have had issues of this sort before, usually in response to threats of legal action against Piano World. But you say that you received no threat of legal consequences if you did not comply.

This seems rather OT from the Ohlsson story, I know. But I suppose the connection is the threat relationship.

Piano*Dad, you are right, the content of this thread is getting OT… Regarding freedom of speech on PW, it is definitely a privilege that we have and enjoy to a great extent, and it is rarely rebuffed by Frank or the moderators.

If you go back and look at the threads in question involving backto study piano, you will find that they themselves (backto study piano) deleted their own comments. Only backto study piano knows the reason for their decision to delete their own comments; if they choose to divulge that reason here in this thread, that is their prerogative. I will say that no one here on PW twisted their arm to make them delete any comments.

Rick




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#1968269 - 10/03/12 02:56 PM Re: Garrick Ohlsson on pianos [Re: Piano*Dad]  
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Originally Posted by Piano*Dad
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Nope - the company representative in this country. Not legal action - but a "demand". So any mention of that company or it's products, whether complimentary or not have been deleted.

Ah, I see. I went back and looked at the thread in question. So you are saying that Yamaha or Kawai told you to delete your words. Interesting. Did you make the change, or did PW get threats? I realize I'm moving into dangerous territory here. Either way, we should know the rules. If a manufacturer can demand -- and get -- changes to our posts, that's interesting. We have had issues of this sort before, usually in response to threats of legal action against Piano World. But you say that you received no threat of legal consequences if you did not comply.

This seems rather OT from the Ohlsson story, I know. But I suppose the connection is the threat relationship.


No, not Yamaha or Kawai. It's a maker with a certain artists program - a maker with which Garrick experienced a little turbulence, you might say. So yes, it is very relevant to the Ohlsson story.

#1968272 - 10/03/12 03:04 PM Re: Garrick Ohlsson on pianos [Re: ando]  
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Originally Posted by ando
Originally Posted by Piano*Dad
Quote
Nope - the company representative in this country. Not legal action - but a "demand". So any mention of that company or it's products, whether complimentary or not have been deleted.

Ah, I see. I went back and looked at the thread in question. So you are saying that Yamaha or Kawai told you to delete your words. Interesting. Did you make the change, or did PW get threats? I realize I'm moving into dangerous territory here. Either way, we should know the rules. If a manufacturer can demand -- and get -- changes to our posts, that's interesting. We have had issues of this sort before, usually in response to threats of legal action against Piano World. But you say that you received no threat of legal consequences if you did not comply.

This seems rather OT from the Ohlsson story, I know. But I suppose the connection is the threat relationship.


No, not Yamaha or Kawai. It's a maker with a certain artists program - a maker with which Garrick experienced a little turbulence, you might say. So yes, it is very relevant to the Ohlsson story.


Gee, what a surprise.

#1968289 - 10/03/12 04:06 PM Re: Garrick Ohlsson on pianos [Re: ando]  
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Originally Posted by ando


No, not Yamaha or Kawai. It's a maker with a certain artists program - a maker with which Garrick experienced a little turbulence, you might say. So yes, it is very relevant to the Ohlsson story.


Thanks for clarifying. That´s the company I guessed it was....


"I don't play accurately - anyone can play accurately - but I play with wonderful expression. As far as the piano is concerned, sentiment is my forte. I keep science for Life."
#1968302 - 10/03/12 04:36 PM Re: Garrick Ohlsson on pianos [Re: Rich Galassini]  
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I reread the thread in question and it appeared to me (from context) that backto_study_piano was talking about a particular Asian maker. Perhaps I was wrong. If any piano maker is "threatening" people here, that is rather odd. What is said here is mostly background noise.

#1968319 - 10/03/12 05:03 PM Re: Garrick Ohlsson on pianos [Re: Rich Galassini]  
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Originally Posted by Piano*Dad
I reread the thread in question and it appeared to me (from context) that backto_study_piano was talking about a particular Asian maker. Perhaps I was wrong. If any piano maker is "threatening" people here, that is rather odd. What is said here is mostly background noise.

It seems to me that things are getting all twisted up and confused here. The situation with backto study piano deleting his/her own comments in other PW threads at the requests (or demands as they put it) of a dealer (who is not a member of PW) is in no way connected to this thread. In fact, it is my understanding that the dealer in question knew backto study piano by their real name through prior contact/encounters.

This is how rumors and misinformation gets started.

Why don’t we get back on track here, if there is a track…

It’s just another good reason why we need to carefully consider and think about what we write on an international, world-wide, internet forum. Hey, that’s why it’s called Piano World! smile

Rick


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#1968323 - 10/03/12 05:07 PM Re: Garrick Ohlsson on pianos [Re: BDB]  
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Originally Posted by BDB
...the artist gets to use their pianos for the cost of moving and tuning...Had Ohlssohn paid to rent the piano, which I am pretty sure you can do, Steinway could not have reclaimed the piano without a lawsuit.
Most of the cost to rent a piano is the moving and tuning. In Atlanta, the rental fee is about 1/3 the total cost of the rental and sometimes less. It amounts to a professional courtesy discount. Other courtesies can be of different value.

Just like artists, athletes and celebrities, companies can be gracious or demanding. I remember reading a story earlier this year where a soccer player lost a $15M campaign for drinking the wrong soda at a post-game press conference.

So either an artist is directly paid to behave a certain way OR artist and company exchange favors for favorable placements. The artist's stature has a lot to do in the balance of power, but any behavior or misbehavior reflects on the attitudes of the parties involved, not the arrangement itself.


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#1968360 - 10/03/12 06:26 PM Re: Garrick Ohlsson on pianos [Re: BDB]  
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Originally Posted by BDB
Originally Posted by BoseEric
So, BDB, what actually happened, in detail, since you appear to know


As I recall, Ohlssohn signed up for Steinway's artist program, which roughly says that in return for the artist's endorsement, the artist gets to use their pianos for the cost of moving and tuning. After he had done that, he picked one of their pianos for a concert in New York and it was delivered. Then he gave an interview, where the interviewer noted that he had a Bösendorfer. Ohlssohn called it the Rolls Royce of pianos in the interview. Steinway heard of that, and reclaimed the piano because he had endorsed a rival piano maker. Ohlssohn had not lived up to his side of the bargain. Had Ohlssohn paid to rent the piano, which I am pretty sure you can do, Steinway could not have reclaimed the piano without a lawsuit.

What came out of it was tighter standards for Steinway's artist program, and Ohlssohn no longer endorses pianos, something that more artists should do, in my opinion. So it is a different world today.


BDB,

You have the general feel of what happened but there are some important mistakes that color the entire event. I had not started out meaning to discuss this but here goes:

Yes, Ohlsson had signed on as a Steinway Artist. However, there was no rental piano in the event in question and he was not asking anything of Steinway. The piano for his recital was "the house piano" in Tully Hall in NYC and the piano was fine in rehearsal and fine the day before the recital. However, when Ohlsson showed up the day of the recital the middle C had been removed from the piano and there was a note saying that the piano was being repaired at Steinway.

This act had nothing to do with withdrawing Artist Support. It was an act of unnecessary vindictiveness IMHO and an example of another day of artist management.

You know that his recital actually happened on a borrowed Bosendorfer.

Also, Ohlsson did not stop endorsing pianos because of this event. He was a Bosendorfer artist for many years after that.

The thought of the Artist management at the time was to crush his career by ruining his Tully recital. What happened actually gave Garrick much more publicity than he might otherwise have had and Steinway had an embarrassing time of it.

I think he currently owns a Steinway, a Mason & Hamlin, and a Bosendorfer, however he is at a point in his career now where he has no need to endorse anyone and simply endorses great pianos.

My 2 cents,



Rich Galassini
Cunningham Piano Co.
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#1968364 - 10/03/12 06:30 PM Re: Garrick Ohlsson on pianos [Re: Rich Galassini]  
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"However, when Ohlsson showed up the day of the recital the middle C had been removed from the piano and there was a note saying that the piano was being repaired at Steinway."

Gee, what a surprise.

#1968381 - 10/03/12 07:18 PM Re: Garrick Ohlsson on pianos [Re: Rich Galassini]  
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That account does not sound likely to me. I recall that a piano had been delivered and was taken away. If the piano was tampered with, then Ohlssohn could have initiated legal action against both the hall and Steinway.


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#1968410 - 10/03/12 08:54 PM Re: Garrick Ohlsson on pianos [Re: Piano*Dad]  
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Originally Posted by Piano*Dad
Quote
Nope - the company representative in this country. Not legal action - but a "demand". So any mention of that company or it's products, whether complimentary or not have been deleted.

Ah, I see. I went back and looked at the thread in question. So you are saying that Yamaha or Kawai told you to delete your words. Interesting. Did you make the change, or did PW get threats? I realize I'm moving into dangerous territory here. Either way, we should know the rules. If a manufacturer can demand -- and get -- changes to our posts, that's interesting. We have had issues of this sort before, usually in response to threats of legal action against Piano World. But you say that you received no threat of legal consequences if you did not comply.

This seems rather OT from the Ohlsson story, I know. But I suppose the connection is the threat relationship.


I don't want to go into the details - I only offered the comment as a warning about criticising piano companies.


Alan from Queensland, Australia (and Clara - my Grotrian Concert & Allen Organ (CF-15)).
#1968431 - 10/03/12 09:18 PM Re: Garrick Ohlsson on pianos [Re: Rich Galassini]  
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Lots of people criticize piano companies without getting ordered to retract their posts.

#1968469 - 10/03/12 11:41 PM Re: Garrick Ohlsson on pianos [Re: BDB]  
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Originally Posted by BDB
That account does not sound likely to me. I recall that a piano had been delivered and was taken away. If the piano was tampered with, then Ohlssohn could have initiated legal action against both the hall and Steinway.


I do not think that Mr Galassini would state anything that that was untruthful. He is among the most respected members of this forum. Thank you Richard, for clarifying this most unfortunate incident.

Kind regards,

Robert.

Last edited by Robert 45; 10/03/12 11:42 PM.
#1968504 - 10/04/12 01:34 AM Re: Garrick Ohlsson on pianos [Re: Rich Galassini]  
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Ad hominem arguments do not prove anything.


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#1968552 - 10/04/12 05:26 AM Re: Garrick Ohlsson on pianos [Re: BDB]  
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Originally Posted by BDB
That account does not sound likely to me. I recall that a piano had been delivered and was taken away. If the piano was tampered with, then Ohlssohn could have initiated legal action against both the hall and Steinway.


Yes, there was a piano removed that was on loan to the venue. Steinway does this with many venues nationally.

But the recital could have gone on using the "house piano" with no troubles. That is the piano that was being "repaired".

Full disclosure = These are the facts as I understand them from conversation with Mr. Ohlsson.


Rich Galassini
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#1968570 - 10/04/12 08:08 AM Re: Garrick Ohlsson on pianos [Re: Rich Galassini]  
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Really, BDB, a young emerging concert pianist initiating legal action against Lincoln Center and Steinway? Great way to advance a career.

#1968643 - 10/04/12 11:15 AM Re: Garrick Ohlsson on pianos [Re: Rich Galassini]  
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Your contention is that you should not have to live up to the terms of a contract that you have made with someone that you believe has lesser status? Those are not my business ethics. I learned a long time ago that you can never tell who will turn out to be important.


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#1968696 - 10/04/12 01:23 PM Re: Garrick Ohlsson on pianos [Re: Rich Galassini]  
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"...Great discussions...Of course, I would like to have heard the pianos too..."

Garrick mentioned that his Arabesque sessions were no longer in release (at the time of the interview). But, they're back, in a boxed set (16 CDs) released in 2008 on the Hyperion label, SKU 03457-14351-4, entitled, "Chopin The Complete Works, Garrick Ohsson." CDS44351/66. I believe I've seen some of the discs sold as singles at Barnes.

The credits are very full, and include the pianos' make, model and serial number, the piano tech's name, the recording engineer, studio location, session date, etc.

I'm hoping that someday his recordings of the Beethoven piano sonatas will be released in a similar form.


Clef

#1968710 - 10/04/12 01:47 PM Re: Garrick Ohlsson on pianos [Re: BDB]  
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Originally Posted by BDB
Your contention is that you should not have to live up to the terms of a contract that you have made with someone that you believe has lesser status? Those are not my business ethics. I learned a long time ago that you can never tell who will turn out to be important.


I agree with your statement in theory BDB. It is rare that I disagree with you but in this case I do. Frankly, at the time Mr. Ohlsson had nothing barring him from saying there is another good piano besides S&S. (I do not know what the contract says today, but I imagine that loophole has been filled. I would love to hear from somebody from Steinway).

Since it was not in the terms of the contract and Steinway was not providing any piano for this performance under the terms the aforementioned contract, I strongly disagree with you.

IMHO, this is a prime example of a bully having a temper tantrum.


Rich Galassini
Cunningham Piano Co.
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Check out the Science Channel's "How Its Made" featuring our piano restoration:
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#1968716 - 10/04/12 02:01 PM Re: Garrick Ohlsson on pianos [Re: Rich Galassini]  
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BDB, do not put words into my mouth. My contention is that you are espousing an opinion that is not in sync with the facts of the situation. Steinway does not need you to come to their defense. Criticizing someones ethics in a situation you don't have full knowledge of is not appropriate, professional or semi-professional.

Last edited by BoseEric; 10/04/12 02:04 PM.
#1968969 - 10/05/12 03:33 AM Re: Garrick Ohlsson on pianos [Re: Rich Galassini]  
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Originally Posted by Rich Galassini
Originally Posted by BDB
Your contention is that you should not have to live up to the terms of a contract that you have made with someone that you believe has lesser status? Those are not my business ethics. I learned a long time ago that you can never tell who will turn out to be important.


I agree with your statement in theory BDB. It is rare that I disagree with you but in this case I do. Frankly, at the time Mr. Ohlsson had nothing barring him from saying there is another good piano besides S&S. (I do not know what the contract says today, but I imagine that loophole has been filled. I would love to hear from somebody from Steinway).

Since it was not in the terms of the contract and Steinway was not providing any piano for this performance under the terms the aforementioned contract, I strongly disagree with you.

IMHO, this is a prime example of a bully having a temper tantrum.


I am not disagreeing with you. All I was saying that if it had been agreed that the hall was to supply the piano, and the piano was not available to play, then Ohlssohn should have had legal recourse for that, and he should have pursued it.

I will also admit that my memory may not be correct. It was a long time ago. But time affects everyone's memories, even those who were closely associated with the event. All I have been talking about is my recollection and reaction.

It is, of course, a different world now. Steinway is a different corporation now, with different policies. In the interview, Ohlsson says his views on pianos have changed. The incident had an affect on both parties, who are both probably better off for it. But there are still musicians who endorse pianos merely because they want to make sure that there are pianos available for them to play, rather than because they have a preference for a particular brand, which I do not believe is ethical, nor is it healthy for the industry.


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#1969029 - 10/05/12 09:27 AM Re: Garrick Ohlsson on pianos [Re: Rich Galassini]  
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All of this is worrisome. I am not speaking of offensive remarks, libel, or whatever, but are we no longer allowed to even express our opinion? If my friends ask me which camera system I prefer, do I have to temper my remarks and praise the competition before stating my preference? It seems we are getting into slippery slopes here. I will go on record stating that I bought a Mason-Hamlin BB because I prefer it. I bought a Canon 7D camera system because I like it best. I bought a Lexus because I liked it best. No apologies to Nikon, Steinway, Mercedes, or whatever. Am I going to get in trouble now? (I am not referring to stars who have contracts for products, that is a little different. I am talking about PW posters who state their opinions every day, every post. No contracts or agreements.)

#1969054 - 10/05/12 10:29 AM Re: Garrick Ohlsson on pianos [Re: Chopinlover49]  
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Originally Posted by Chopinlover49
All of this is worrisome. I am not speaking of offensive remarks, libel, or whatever, but are we no longer allowed to even express our opinion? If my friends ask me which camera system I prefer, do I have to temper my remarks and praise the competition before stating my preference? It seems we are getting into slippery slopes here. I will go on record stating that I bought a Mason-Hamlin BB because I prefer it. I bought a Canon 7D camera system because I like it best. I bought a Lexus because I liked it best. No apologies to Nikon, Steinway, Mercedes, or whatever. Am I going to get in trouble now? (I am not referring to stars who have contracts for products, that is a little different. I am talking about PW posters who state their opinions every day, every post. No contracts or agreements.)



The question is: "Who cares? Who is likely to be influenced?"

There's a world of difference between the paid endorsement of a working professional at the top of his game and the listing of his favorite brands by an avatar who frames his comments in a chat room with his preference for one composer at the top and the "proud owner of ......" rouiine att the bottom.

About the only similarity I can think of is that neither should be taken too seriously.


Will Johnny Come Marching Home?
The fate of the modern wartime soldier
#1969056 - 10/05/12 10:39 AM Re: Garrick Ohlsson on pianos [Re: BDB]  
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Originally Posted by BDB
All I was saying that if it had been agreed that the hall was to supply the piano, and the piano was not available to play, then Ohlssohn should have had legal recourse for that, and he should have pursued it.
I think the best outcome ultimately happened. Another piano was played and lawyers were not called.

Without the larger public scrutiny, who has more to lose? The then emerging career of an individual in a highly competitive field with replacements lined up and dying for the same audiences or a company that tried to influence an artists statements and went too far? The great "Steinway" didn't have a board meeting and decide to punish him, some middle manager went on a power trip emboldened by a corporate culture of superiority and business dominance. The hope is cooler heads could have prevailed, but the truth is few things make the papers. Arrogance happens in almost any industry-leading corporation. And even the most experience of sponsored pros occasionally have foot-in-mouth disease.


Sam Bennett
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#1970197 - 10/08/12 07:22 AM Re: Garrick Ohlsson on pianos [Re: PianoWorksATL]  
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Rich Galassini Offline
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Originally Posted by PianoWorksATL
The great "Steinway" didn't have a board meeting and decide to punish him, some middle manager went on a power trip emboldened by a corporate culture of superiority and business dominance. The hope is cooler heads could have prevailed, but the truth is few things make the papers. Arrogance happens in almost any industry-leading corporation. And even the most experience of sponsored pros occasionally have foot-in-mouth disease.


Sam,

While it is true that the board did not formally punish Ohlsson, it is a corporate policy of thiers to do whatever can be done to bring on new artists and to give disadvantages to artists who choose not to jump on board.

One example from a New York Times article:

Valentina Lisitsa, a Ukrainian-born pianist who prefers Bösendorfers, said she had encountered roadblocks to playing one at some of her American concerts. ''They created all kinds of difficulties,'' Ms. Lisitsa said of the response to her insistence on playing a Bösendorfer with the Atlanta Symphony in October. ''Steinway tried everything to get me to play Steinway, including some Steinway representative waiting for me in my dressing room right before the concert and asking me in not a very polite way why would I choose to play another piano.''


Rich Galassini
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#1970245 - 10/08/12 10:08 AM Re: Garrick Ohlsson on pianos [Re: Rich Galassini]  
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torrance, CA
''Steinway tried everything to get me to play Steinway, including some Steinway representative waiting for me in my dressing room right before the concert and asking me in not a very polite way why would I choose to play another piano.''



One reason she could provide is that she has her own endorsement deal with a rival company. I doubt that she shows up at music trade show booths simply because she happens to be in the neighborhood buying groceries. In bucking the trend and attempting to displace the usual brand house piano, she must assume the burden of some difficulties as a touring artist.

I thought this thread was about the mature views of Mr. Olsson, who is heard to say more than once in the interviews that these days he aims to be everyone's friend and not truck in a piano if he finds the one already in place to be perfectly satisfactory.



Will Johnny Come Marching Home?
The fate of the modern wartime soldier
#1970292 - 10/08/12 12:28 PM Re: Garrick Ohlsson on pianos [Re: Rich Galassini]  
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... and that is indeed a very mature attitude. In any case, since touring schedules are planned way in advance, most of the piano scheduling can also be planned way in advance too. If a pianist has a preference for a certain brand, that preference can probably be accommodated. And if it can't be accommodated at reasonable expense, then a good substitute should fill the bill nicely. If you're a big enough name, I guess you can tour with your own piano (hoping it isn't seized at customs .... ).

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