Piano World Home Page Forums Our Most Popular Forums Composer's Lounge Where is the melody?

Good. For whatever my opinion is worth, I like it the way that it is also.

You may already have guessed this, but the next step, if you choose to, is to write a nice, "complimentary" answer to the question. I would advise spending a little more time on this part, perhaps by trying a few different ideas, and then selecting the "best" answer.

By "complimentary", I mean that your answer should reflect the mood of the question, not too much contrast, while finishing the musical thought. And, alternately, one can always answer a question with another question.

There is absolutely no rush on this. Take as little time, or as much as you like.

I get what you're saying. Yeah, I'll definitely see what I can come up with. I already want to come up with more of an "answer" than answering with another question. But who knows, that could end up changing as I start running through it in my head. Guess we'll see, I'll report back with progress on it

I have been thinking of a way to incorporate Steve's most excellent advice into what we are trying to accomplish here at the moment..

While at your piano tonight, I might try this -- PLAY this nice "question" that you have composed:
Eb *dotted half-note* => (octave up to) Eb * half-note * => Db *eighth-note* => Ab *eighth-note* => Bb * dotted half-note *. . . and then follow that up by SINGING, or humming your possible “answer”(s). When you find one that you like, write the notes down, referring back to the piano if necessary. Once you have a few possible “answers”, pick the one you like the best, and let us know what it is.

If you need any hints getting started on possible “answers”, just let us know.

That sounds like a really good idea actually, I think doing it like that will help a ton. I definitely want to see what I can come up with on my own before asking for where to go with it. I think I'll be able to think something up though

So I'm still messing around with this, and have been running it through my head all day. One line just keeps popping back into my head though, and I get an "answer" feel from it.

Eb (up to)=> Bb (down to)=> Gb (up to)=> Ab (up to)=> Bb => Bb

I feel like I could do more with it, but that might just be me overthinking it again.

I'll keep running it through my head and see how it goes, but any input you have on the above would be great!

Excuse my interruption. ABC notation can be your friend. It is a "real" music notation widely used in folk music. Full arrangements are doable, and it is extremely useful for simple melody lines in text only format. Set the key, the default note interval and then the rest tends to follows. For many musicians it takes a few minutes to learn it.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Abc_music_notation

The other big bonus is concertina.net takes ABC notation in text format and converts it to dots and lines sheet music, so a person can store and edit their music using any text editor or word processor, and still share easily with other musicians.

http://www.concertina.net/tunes_convert.html

dbush,

I like this answer a lot! It starts off with the same note as the “question”, agreeing with it, and then shows a different aspect. I would ask you to now place some note values with each pitch, bearing in mind that the question was in 3 / 4 meter, and lasted for three or four measures. That same rhythm almost fits the answer, too.

And I can not help making one further suggestion. For some variety and a touch of color, end this first part of your melody on a note that is not naturally in the key of Eb minor. Maybe try this:
Eb (up to)=> Bb (down to)=> Gb (up to)=> Ab (up to)=> Bb (down to) => D natural

This is very good work so far.

I actually like that suggestion a lot! I'm about to head to bed, but I'll be able to think through the note values while at work tomorrow (I work in IT, promise I'm not slacking on the job!).

Just this little bit alone has already boosted my confidence quite a bit, I'm loving it!

I am glad you feel good about the work so far. There is still quite a bit to do, but, with the same effort and attention, within the next two or three days, you will have composed a complete melodic idea that promises to be very enchanting.

I have an ulterior motive for suggesting you use that D natural as the last note in your "answer", so I am glad you are considering it. As in billiards, it will "set you up" very nicely.

So I was thinking something along these lines.

Eb *dotted half* (up to)=> Bb *half* (down to)=> Gb *eighth* (up to)=> Ab *eighth* (up to)=> Bb *eighth* => D *half*

I figure it follows along with the same timing setup by the question. Thoughts?

After playing your "question" first, I played this:
| Eb *dotted half* (up to)=> Bb *half* (down to)=> Gb *eighth* (up to)=> Ab *eighth* (up to)=> Bb *eighth* => D *half* ||
and I think it works just fine except for the duration of the last two notes. Here's why -- your Bb eighth note would have to come at the beginning of the 3rd measure, and quickly jump to the D, giving us 2½ beats in that measure. We could easily solve the mathematical problem by simply adding a ½ beat rest at the end of that measure. But, personally, I would "milk" that nice Bb (down to) D sound, perhaps making one, simple change: sustaining your Bb as a dotted half-note, and using a fourth measure for your D half-note or dotted half-note.

So, on the piano, or in your head, at least try this as a possible "answer" to your first "question":
| Eb *dotted half* (up to)=> Bb *half* (down to)=> Gb *eighth* (up to)=> Ab *eighth* (up to)=> Bb *dotted half* (down to) => D *half* => quarter rest ||

That last note serves notice that there will be more to come in this musical "discussion".

Ah, okay, I get what you're saying. I hadn't even thought of that earlier, but I can definitely see how that will bring out a nice sound now that it's there. I figure picking up on things like that will come with practice

I do really like that change. I say we go ahead and stick with that!

Time to chime in again. This is indeed a nice answer to the question and it has some features that can be developed. The two eighth notes leading to Bb are a memorable melodic feature (typically called a motive). If you repeat them at a different scale interval, in this case Ab, Bb leading to Cb you're using a similar rhythm and melodic feature to take you someplace different,... and you can do that more than once and in different directions. Such spinning out of the melody can lead to interesting places such as a second theme group (for those thinking in Sonata form) though that doesn't usually happen until you've repeated the initial themes again.

Such a process can also be used to build a development section. In that case you would use non-diatonic notes for modulation. You should also use motives from your question theme for developmental purposes.

Okay, I'll chime out now.

Great suggestion, Steve. Your input ALWAYS welcome.


Yup - things like that, AND so much more! In so many ways, composing is like learning to play an instrument: the more one works at it, the better one gets. Aspects that were difficult only a week or two ago, with practice have now become simple. One just needs to know HOW to work, and on what to focus.

With that said (actually, written), you and I have been working on a particular aspect of composing, having your initial motif tell us how it wants to develop into a melody. In the future, by generally following the steps we are climbing right now, you will be able to apply these same principles whenever you compose. BASICS.

There is a huge BRAIN TRUST of knowledgeable and talented composers on this Forum, who are just waiting to jump in and give you snippets of their expertise. I thank them for their indulgence and restraint so far!

I am thinking that you (with an occasional suggestion from me , if needed) will be wrapping up your first complete melodic idea within the next two or three days, and will be ready to focus on harmonic structure. I'll probably "throw you to the wolves" at that point (with a lifeline if needed.)

Meanwhile, this is probably an excellent time to recap the very nice work you have accomplished so far, and to get it notated on staff paper. I do not much care if you do this with pen and paper, or with some simple software. It would just be nice to see the results so far in front of us.

I believe this is where we are:
QUESTION:
|| 3 / 4 Meter | Eb *dotted half-note* => (octave up to) Eb * half-note * => Db *eighth-note* => Ab *eighth-note* => Bb * dotted half-note * => <<here I would add a 3-beat. entire measure rest for symmetry, making your phrase 4 complete measures>> ||
ANSWER
| Eb *dotted half* (up to)=> Bb *half* (down to)=> Gb *eighth* (up to)=> Ab *eighth* (up to)=> Bb *dotted half* (down to) => D *half* => quarter rest ||

=OR= following Steve’s suggestion Alternate ANSWER:
| Eb *dotted half* (up to)=> Bb *half* (down to)=> Ab *eighth* (up to)=> Bb *eighth* (up to)=> Cb *dotted half* (down to) => D *half* => quarter rest ||

I would play them both over several times, and let your developing Composer’s Ear be your guide.
Ed

I'm excited to keep going with this! And as always, thanks a ton for all your help on this (and Steve as well!). I've actually started noticing this "Question and Answer" type of format in other piano pieces I listen to while at work. I'm definitely more excited and pumped about this than I've ever been, and really excited to keep developing on it!

And lucky for me, it's Friday night. The wife will be at work all night, house to myself, which usually means piano all night . I'll try out both answers we've come up and see which one "sticks" with me. I'll probably end up notating BOTH of them, if anything just to have more practice with notation in general (and it's always nice to have things like this for future reference as well!).

Also, just a random side-note, but this has been helping my ear training way more than I ever thought it would. I've already noticed that I'm having an easier time picking out keys or notes in music, hearing patterns within a melody, etc. Just everything about this has me excited at this point

I'll be sure to update once I've figured out where this melody is wanting to take me!

We like your enthusiasm!

Since it is a "long weekend", and since we all know you IT guys are good at multi-tasking, how about a Double Assignment?

* The most important thing is to decide upon a good "answer" to that all-important first "question". Notating both versions, as you suggest, is perfect.

* I would say the next chronological thing is to get these melodic phrases captured on the staff, in whatever way you choose. Pen, staff paper, computer software, printer, plotter - they are all simply tools, like a saw to a carpenter.

* If you have time, please start thinking about CONTRAST. Going back to our musical conversation, we have a very nice question, and we have arived at a couple of really good answers. Now suppose a third person enters our little discussion, not completely off-topic or out in "left field", but brings into the conversation a significantly different slant on things? This will probably require the most work so far, because we want it to be part of the original "topic", but also stand apart. To keep it tidy, I would probably limit this section to 4 measures (12 beats.) Other than that limitation, let us see what sort of contrasts our musical discussion might welcome. (and if you do not get to this part for a day or two, that is fine too.)

Ed

DDOOUUBBBBLLEE PPOOSSTT

Sounds good to me!

Looking forward to seeing where this ends up going. I figure with enough time and thought, I'll be able to come up with something. I should be able to handle the double assignment

Sorry for the late reply guys! Lotta stuff ended up popping up this weekend and sucked a lot of my time away. Anyways, here's the notation for the two question/answers.




I'm still struggling to figure out which would be the better one to stick with. I'm having a hard time trying to get an idea of where it would go from here, after hitting that D. Any advice? I've been thinking it through all weekend and seem to have hit a wall with it.

dbush,

That is a fine job on the notation! Whichever you decide for that next-to-the-last-note in your "answer" works really, really well. Neither Steve nor I will care, and you can wait to decide until almost everything else is done.

Thinking about that final D natural, do you have a sense about where it might like to go next. In other words, what note, or notes, "want" to follow it? (Bear in mind, that we are striving for some CONTRAST in the next 3 or 4 measures, and this will probably mean taking us out of Eb minor, at least temporarily.)

But first things first: Where does that D natural sound like it would like to head? Maybe try playing what we have so far, and then experimenting with only the next pitch, trying different ones until you hit upon one that seems "right".

There is NEVER a need to rush this stuff!
Ed