Piano World Home Page Forums Our Most Popular Forums Piano Teachers Forum Piano Career Academy anyone? Alternative Piano Lessons

Welcome to the forum, Ilinca. It would be good and useful for you to spend some time exploring past discussions, so that you can catch up to the mindset of the majority of members here. It helps communication to know the people you are talking to. Since joining 6 years ago, I'm struck in particular by the insistence of the whole body working together in playing piano. It is almost universal here. Occasionally "finger oriented" teaching is pointed out, as something to be avoided. You will have a better communication if you talk to people from where they are at. The finger-only system is considered a dinosaur in most places.

@Ilinca again:

I watched several of your videos a while back. Many of the ideas that you express are ones that I know of. However, to get at them one also needs prerequisite knowledge and skills that need to be built up. For example, in one sample video, you present a given piece and how to approach it. One part of the approach is to first analyze it in order to get at its musical form. I forget the details: you'd have repetitions such as in sonata allegro form, phrases, modulations etc. But to do that, the student needs to know how to recognize these things: even basic things such as key signature, modulation, recognition of a chord and such. If the student simply follows your analysis, then these things are not there. Do you have a methodical way of building all of this up?

The same is true for other things. If I am to emphasize a melody line and play the other voices softer, that is a coordination that needs to be built over time, in stages. In addition to using the whole body in playing, and learning to do that, you don't just start with an advanced piece of music, and try to get all of that in at once. Is there an underlying structure to what you do?

Finally - I'm reading about many instructional videos to follow. Does the student get observed? I don't mean feedback on a recording, but actually observance, one-on-one, with hands on guidance? Or at least, is there such an option?

These are the kinds of question that came to my mind when I first examined your site.

Ilinca,

The "fingers only" piano players you refer to are self-taught amateurs you encounter on the internet. Your website promotion pushes the idea that "fingers only" is a failing of the educational system of European and American piano teachers and conservatories, and as such your claim is misleading, no question about it. Self-taught Russian amateurs are as dysfunctional as self-taught amateurs around the world. I respectfully suggest you re-edit your advertisement since, as it stands, your assertion borders on libel.

Also, your sales-bait of "you won't have to work hard" or "sacrifice anything" is insulting to anyone of average intelligence. Any student of mathematics, chemistry, farming, cooking, engineering, will know what it means to work hard and sacrifice. Pianists are no different.

I wish you all the happiness and success in the world, but I will share with you my self-imposed rules regarding advertising as further 'food for thought': I refuse to attempt to elevate my status by disparaging my 'competitors' or claim superiority over other teachers (since I usually cannot know that to be a fact), I never claim to potential students that learning to master the keyboard is "easy" or always "fun", and I never make any claim I cannot demonstrate Right Now. That keeps me on the honest side of a line I do not want to be found crossing.

Bravo, Jonathan. Do you think Ilinca can turn me into Murray Perahia if I give her my credit card? I'm tempted....

What's that old saying, "you get what you pay for..."

The lack of an answer to my questions seems to tell me what I need to know.

This is 100% correct.
"BUT - what happens in Conservatoires is one thing - and what happens in thousands of piano studios across the world is something entirely different!!!"


But $97.00 /45 min lesson? ouch

In the whole of the message, it is not correct at all. Ilenca is stating that in piano studios the outdated finger-based playing is taught, and implying that this is only different in conservatories. That is incorrect. A quick browse in this forum alone will show that pretty well nobody teaches that way among the teachers who have their own studios.

Not true of my lessons at all. I literally start the moment the lesson starts and work up the the second the lesson ends.

Stop immediately because you are taking 30 minutes? I think you mean switch to more time.

I agree that for any GOOD student, 30 minutes seems like nothing. But would you agree that we must teach students who do almost no work, even 30 minutes can feel like an excruciating amount of time.

I've had two horrendous transfer students whose mother wanted them to take 30-minute lessons every OTHER week, and they still wanted to do CM? Good grief! Every minute teaching these two loons is sheer torture. I literally cheered when they finally quit.

LOL. I refuse to teach small children more than 30 minutes because I just cannot possibly endure one more minute than that. Let me tell you those lessons End On Time. It is to the benefit of children that I do this, otherwise I instantly morph into W.C. Fields, if not Bela Lugosi.

For adults, well, if they are really engaging, intelligent, and great company then an hour will sail by. With adults I can have an intellectual relationship, but children? - they must be spoon-fed at every micro-second, and boy is that exhausting.

lol @ Jonathan!

In her defense, it does say you won't have to do these things AND not see results. But, to agree with your premise, it does smack of hyperbole, much like the many "unlock the secret code to ...." whatever instrument you want to insert there.

I am also one of those "self-taught amateurs" you referred to above. I am proud to be an STA. I would love to have the time to devote to lessons with a professional teacher who will help square away all of the little technical things. But, I chose to study guitar at an early. Piano came along as a hobby where I tried to "transfer" things I learned on guitar to other instruments.

As a STA, I frequent sites like this one, purchase piano instructional materials, watch videos on youtube and rely on my other musical knowledge and instincts to play with my own distinctive style. Not that it is any good, mind you, but it is a style all my own.

I have come to realize that I am a "finger player" and am actively trying to develop better arm, shoulder wrist involvement in my playing. Unfortunately, I discovered this as I was diagnosing a sudden and unexpected bout of tendonitis in the upper forearm. It was difficult to decide whether it was piano, my guitar work, weight lifting routine, or time at work on the computer that had wrecked my right arm.

Even though my technique is not refined, it is useful. I am the only piano player at my church that can create an arraggement by ear and put it in standard notation for the "regular" pianists and other musicians to use. Also, I am used when an improvisation is required because the other pianists are "attached/addicted" to the sheet.

For the record, I don't consider my self a "pianist" per se. But I do play and am known locally as a multi-instrumentalist.

I have been using the Piano Career Academy sight for 3 weeks or so. I am a beginner but with a reasonable amount of prior musical knowledge gained through gtr playing-music programming - recording studio work etc. I was (and still am to a certain extent) working with the Alfred's books. However, I found their watered down arrangements a bit lame and uninspiring. I saw Ilinca's youtube videos recently and was impressed by her playing style and ability. I have worked with enough musicians to recognise a good solid professional. I was hesitant of trying the site as there is no free trial period and whilst I think it is good value now, obviously I didn't know this at the time.

After studying the videos and content for a few weeks I must say that I find the site excellent. Of course it is not a substitute for having private tuition but there is a huge amount of really useful content covering technique-posture- theory- in painstaking detail. That can be accessed 24 hours. To get all this information from a tutor while paying for lessons would be very expensive indeed. Personally I will probably take some lessons as well from time to time to monitor progress.

I don't wish to offend any of the teachers out there and I do understand some of the sceptiscism about the site, I was sceptical myself, but I do think it is unfair to make very strong judgements without actually checking it out in a little more depth. I for one find it both useful and challenging.

If we are so strict, unless you know all piano studios you can't guaranty it isn't true.

In my -I admit short (2 teachers)- experience with teachers, what you see in this forum is not representative of the typical teacher and in fact there could be 1000s studios where this musically holistic approach is not the norm..

By definition, 49,9% of teachers in the world are below average and only 10% are exceptional. So I believe her when she says that lots of students come to her with such problems. Although the sales pitch was a little too much.

Just my cent.

Carlos CR

Carlos, she gives a very specific type of stereotype of other teachers - perhaps she has read about them. There is an old fashioned subgroup that still exists which teaches that the hand should be curved like holding a ball, you try to get "strong fingers", the action is in the fingers, you should be able to balance a penny on the flat of your hand, and if you study a given traditional sequence of repertoire; Czerny, Clementi, Hanon.... that in and of itself will teach you to play piano. My grandmother was taught that way around 1910, as was told by my mother.

It is not a matter of saying that there are poor quality teachers out there. It is more like only one geographic area teaches certain things.

I agree, but it is also true the other way around. All piano studios also do not teach in the stereotypical way.

To be fair she doesn't say all piano studios but thousands of them and that surely can be true. But I don't want to be nitpicky.

I only posted because some of you were mocking at her and using ad hominem attacks AND, marketing pitch apart, the way he teaches doesn't seem to be the norm everywhere. Call it the Russian school or the finger school or whatever, her point is that there are a lot of teachers that don't really know how to teach. I prefer to call their methods the no clue school instead of the finger school and I'm sure there are lots of teachers that use that method in Russia too.

But just by making people aware of what is involved in learning the piano she is making everyone (but the bad teachers) a service. I didn't know my teachers weren't good until I started to read online forums and resources.

If I ever hire a teacher again for me or for my children I know a lot more about what to expect from a good teacher and how to tell a bad one apart.

So I think she raises the bar and in the end that is good for everyone but the bad teachers.

Also I agree that all that stereotypes and name calling she does is not necessary to make her point and is a little offensive, specially in a teachers forum.

Carlos CR

Hahahahah lol. End in time. Yeah, so true.
I am still learning be relaxed at the lesson coz otherwise I feel exhausted.

Well, we all have strong and weak sides to improve. But I would rather focus on the good side, and I think she is just great, dreams big, educates the entire musical world and surrounded by 1000 of people who needs what she is doing.

Seems like an interesting site. I think it would be great for adults with some prior training. I will definitely check it out. I really like the idea of having a personal teachers though. For many reasons. I have so many great memories of my teachers, what they taught me was more than just the piano.

Doreen Hall
www.palomapiano.com