Welcome to the Piano World Piano Forums
Over 2.7 million posts about pianos, digital pianos, and all types of keyboard instruments
Join the World's Largest Community of Piano Lovers (it's free)
It's Fun to Play the Piano ... Please Pass It On!

SEARCH
Piano Forums & Piano World
(ad)
Best of Piano Buyer
 Best of Piano Buyer
(ad)
Piano Life Saver - Dampp Chaser
Dampp Chaser Piano Life Saver
Find a Professional
Our Classified Ads
Find Piano Professionals-

*Piano Dealers - Piano Stores
*Piano Tuners
*Piano Teachers
*Piano Movers
*Piano Restorations
*Piano Manufacturers

Advertise on Piano World

(ad)
Accu-Tuner
Sanderson Accu-Tuner
Who's Online Now
107 registered members (apianostudent, AndrewJCW, amyram, 36251, accordeur, Apoll0, ando, Antihero, 28 invisible), 1,490 guests, and 7 spiders.
Key: Admin, Global Mod, Mod
(ad)
Estonia Pianos
Estonia Pianos
Quick Links to Useful Piano & Music Resources
Quick Links:
*Advertise On Piano World
*Free Piano Newsletter
*Online Piano Recitals
*Piano Recitals Index
*Piano & Music Accessories
*Live Piano Venues
*Music School Listings
* Buying a Piano
*Buying A Acoustic Piano
*Buying a Digital Piano
*Pianos for Sale
*Sell Your Piano
*How Old is My Piano?
*Directory/Site Map
*Virtual Piano
*Music Word Search
*Piano Videos
*Virtual Piano Chords & Scales
Previous Thread
Next Thread
Print Thread
Hop To
Page 2 of 6 1 2 3 4 5 6
Re: Two months to learn Chopin's 4th Ballade [Re: debrucey] #1966890
09/30/12 03:53 PM
09/30/12 03:53 PM
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 6,661
D
Damon Offline
6000 Post Club Member
Damon  Offline
6000 Post Club Member
D

Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 6,661
Originally Posted by debrucey

Anyone else miscalculated their deadlines like this before? How did it turn out?


Yes, but it turned out okay. Adrenaline is wonderful thing sometimes.

Piano & Music Gifts & Accessories (570)
Piano accessories and music gift items, digital piano dolly, music theme party goods
Re: Two months to learn Chopin's 4th Ballade [Re: debrucey] #1966903
09/30/12 04:17 PM
09/30/12 04:17 PM
Joined: Nov 2002
Posts: 13,837
Iowa City, IA
Kreisler Offline
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member
Kreisler  Offline
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member

Joined: Nov 2002
Posts: 13,837
Iowa City, IA
Originally Posted by debrucey
Anyone else miscalculated their deadlines like this before? How did it turn out?



I've had it turn out lots of ways. From triumphant to disastrous and everything in between. laugh


"If we continually try to force a child to do what he is afraid to do, he will become more timid, and will use his brains and energy, not to explore the unknown, but to find ways to avoid the pressures we put on him." (John Holt)

www.pianoped.com
www.youtube.com/user/UIPianoPed
Re: Two months to learn Chopin's 4th Ballade [Re: Kreisler] #1966905
09/30/12 04:22 PM
09/30/12 04:22 PM
Joined: Nov 2009
Posts: 22,458
New York
Mark_C Online content
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member
Mark_C  Online Content
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member

Joined: Nov 2009
Posts: 22,458
New York
Originally Posted by Kreisler
Originally Posted by debrucey
Anyone else miscalculated their deadlines like this before? How did it turn out?

I've had it turn out lots of ways. From triumphant to disastrous and everything in between. laugh

Ever just changed the program?

And, how awful anyway is it to 'change the program'? I agree with Debrucey that we want to try to avoid it -- but not at all costs.

Re: Two months to learn Chopin's 4th Ballade [Re: Mark_C] #1966908
09/30/12 04:28 PM
09/30/12 04:28 PM
Joined: May 2012
Posts: 6,177
JoelW Offline
6000 Post Club Member
JoelW  Offline
6000 Post Club Member

Joined: May 2012
Posts: 6,177
Originally Posted by Mark_C


I think it's very safe to say that it's considered by all to be among Chopin's most challenging (that is, all who know enough about Chopin's works to talk about it), and by very many to be his very most challenging.



Harder than the third sonata?

Re: Two months to learn Chopin's 4th Ballade [Re: debrucey] #1966911
09/30/12 04:31 PM
09/30/12 04:31 PM
Joined: Dec 2004
Posts: 2,161
South Jersey
DameMyra Offline
2000 Post Club Member
DameMyra  Offline
2000 Post Club Member

Joined: Dec 2004
Posts: 2,161
South Jersey
I know a couple of people who learned it in that general time frame. Both gave solid performances. One of them continued working on it and about two months later gave a "terrific" performance.


Private Piano Teacher
MTNA/NJMTA/SJMTA
Re: Two months to learn Chopin's 4th Ballade [Re: JoelW] #1966916
09/30/12 04:35 PM
09/30/12 04:35 PM
Joined: Nov 2009
Posts: 22,458
New York
Mark_C Online content
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member
Mark_C  Online Content
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member

Joined: Nov 2009
Posts: 22,458
New York
Originally Posted by mazurkajoe
Harder than the third sonata?

Well, the main thing was whether the Ballade is clearly among the most challenging. ha

But as long as you're asking.... smile I performed both for the first time at the same recital, and FWIW I had been working on the sonata for a year....and the ballade for 7 years. The difficulties are different, and different people would find one or the other to be harder. It's hard even to say what's the hardest thing about the sonata. Most people think it's the last movement, many say it's the 1st....and to me the scherzo is the hardest movement.

I'd say it would be splitting hairs to say if the sonata or the ballade is harder. They're both clearly "among Chopin's most challenging works."

BTW I wouldn't recommend performing the sonata either after just 2 months. grin

Re: Two months to learn Chopin's 4th Ballade [Re: debrucey] #1966919
09/30/12 04:37 PM
09/30/12 04:37 PM
Joined: May 2001
Posts: 25,828
New York City
pianoloverus Online content
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member
pianoloverus  Online Content
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member

Joined: May 2001
Posts: 25,828
New York City
IMO there are plenty of Chopin pieces at the same level of difficulty as the 4th Ballade or so close as to make any difference unimportant.

Re: Two months to learn Chopin's 4th Ballade [Re: Mark_C] #1966928
09/30/12 04:55 PM
09/30/12 04:55 PM
Joined: May 2012
Posts: 6,177
JoelW Offline
6000 Post Club Member
JoelW  Offline
6000 Post Club Member

Joined: May 2012
Posts: 6,177
Originally Posted by Mark_C


BTW I wouldn't recommend performing the sonata either after just 2 months. grin



Yeah.. I don't know if the OP is playing it very safe. I would never perform any large work at two months of practice.

Re: Two months to learn Chopin's 4th Ballade [Re: debrucey] #1966962
09/30/12 05:37 PM
09/30/12 05:37 PM
Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 2,607
Manchester, UK
debrucey Offline OP
2000 Post Club Member
debrucey  Offline OP
2000 Post Club Member

Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 2,607
Manchester, UK
Obviously I'm not playing it safe :P

I didn't expect to have to clarify this point, but by 'learned' the coda all I mean is a can sit down and play the coda with a reasonable amount of fluency (if a little undertempo) from memory.

The reason this is an important thing for me is because getting a piece to that stage is the thing I stress about the most. Once the notes are 'learned' all of the work that then must happen to make it a polished performance, while it will certainly take a long time, doesn't frighten me.

'Considered by all' ?
A lot of pianists I know have told me that they don't consider it to be as difficult as people think, so clearly opinion is divided on that one.

In an ideal world we would all 'own' every piece we learn before we play it to anyone, but I personally have very rarely experienced such a situation.

Last edited by debrucey; 09/30/12 05:40 PM.
Re: Two months to learn Chopin's 4th Ballade [Re: debrucey] #1966981
09/30/12 05:55 PM
09/30/12 05:55 PM
Joined: Nov 2006
Posts: 9,392
Pacific Northwest, US.
A
argerichfan Offline
9000 Post Club Member
argerichfan  Offline
9000 Post Club Member
A

Joined: Nov 2006
Posts: 9,392
Pacific Northwest, US.
Originally Posted by debrucey

Anyone else miscalculated their deadlines like this before?

Yes. Some years ago, after a violinist and horn player had a nasty falling out with a pianist, they asked me to play the piano part in the Brahms Horn Trio with two months to go before a scheduled performance.

I said, 'yes, of course!'

If I knew the piece from recordings, that didn't quite prepare me for how difficult that piano part actually is. (If not on the level of the Chopin.) The first rehearsal did not go well and I spent the last month in a dead heat working overtime.

In the event all went okay, though don't let anyone tell you that the Horn Trio is in any way an easy gig.

(Good luck with the Chopin, debrucey.)


Jason
Re: Two months to learn Chopin's 4th Ballade [Re: debrucey] #1967012
09/30/12 06:49 PM
09/30/12 06:49 PM
Joined: Jan 2012
Posts: 521
Canada
L
LadyChen Offline
500 Post Club Member
LadyChen  Offline
500 Post Club Member
L

Joined: Jan 2012
Posts: 521
Canada
Nothing like a deadline to fire up your practicing! If you play Chopin anything like you play Rachmaninoff, you'll do just fine, debrucey. We believe in you! smile

Re: Two months to learn Chopin's 4th Ballade [Re: LadyChen] #1967063
09/30/12 08:25 PM
09/30/12 08:25 PM
Joined: Nov 2006
Posts: 9,392
Pacific Northwest, US.
A
argerichfan Offline
9000 Post Club Member
argerichfan  Offline
9000 Post Club Member
A

Joined: Nov 2006
Posts: 9,392
Pacific Northwest, US.
Originally Posted by LadyChen
... you'll do just fine, debrucey. We believe in you! smile

If his past history here is any indication, I do not feel there is any to worry about.


Jason
Re: Two months to learn Chopin's 4th Ballade [Re: debrucey] #1967078
09/30/12 09:11 PM
09/30/12 09:11 PM
Joined: Jun 2005
Posts: 5,446
Philadelphia
D
Derulux Offline
5000 Post Club Member
Derulux  Offline
5000 Post Club Member
D

Joined: Jun 2005
Posts: 5,446
Philadelphia
I know I'm coming in a little late to this. I would suggest that playing something poorly would be less professional than dropping the piece.

That said, I don't think this is impossible to learn in two months. I hear you are proficient at Rachmaninoff, though I have never had the pleasure of hearing you play any. I learned Rachmaninoff's 2nd piano concerto in 2 months. Bottom line: you can do this. smile


Every day we are afforded a new chance. The problem with life is not that you run out of chances. In the end, what you run out of are days.
Re: Two months to learn Chopin's 4th Ballade [Re: debrucey] #1967107
09/30/12 10:29 PM
09/30/12 10:29 PM
Joined: Dec 2008
Posts: 4,728
not somewhere over the rainbow
Pogorelich. Offline
4000 Post Club Member
Pogorelich.  Offline
4000 Post Club Member

Joined: Dec 2008
Posts: 4,728
not somewhere over the rainbow
When push comes to shove, you can do so many things.. as you'll discover, haha =) good luck!



"The eyes can mislead, the smile can lie, but the shoes always tell the truth."
Re: Two months to learn Chopin's 4th Ballade [Re: debrucey] #1967140
10/01/12 12:06 AM
10/01/12 12:06 AM
Joined: Nov 2009
Posts: 22,458
New York
Mark_C Online content
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member
Mark_C  Online Content
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member

Joined: Nov 2009
Posts: 22,458
New York
Originally Posted by debrucey
...by 'learned' the coda all I mean is a can sit down and play the coda with a reasonable amount of fluency (if a little undertempo) from memory.

The reason this is an important thing for me is because getting a piece to that stage is the thing I stress about the most. Once the notes are 'learned' all of the work that then must happen to make it a polished performance, while it will certainly take a long time, doesn't frighten me.

Fine -- but yes, "long time" -- which I would have thought could mean a lot more than 2 months.

Quote
'Considered by all' ?
A lot of pianists I know have told me that they don't consider it to be as difficult as people think....

IMO they're just wrong.
Sorry. smile

And BTW my guess would be that "a lot" is a bit of hyperbole. You sure you don't mean just 1 or 2 people that you happened to have come across? (Because I'm very, very confident that it's an extreme minority view. Unless y'all are talking about playing it not necessarily very well, or quite superficially, in which case just about anything isn't that hard.)

Anyway....obviously you're quite determined to press on with the Ballade. Good luck -- maybe you can pull it off quite well; a lot of people here seem to think you can. But from how you presented it in the original post, IMO it sounds way too iffy.

Re: Two months to learn Chopin's 4th Ballade [Re: debrucey] #1967211
10/01/12 08:15 AM
10/01/12 08:15 AM
Joined: Sep 2007
Posts: 1,091
Pennsylvania
C
Cheeto717 Offline
1000 Post Club Member
Cheeto717  Offline
1000 Post Club Member
C

Joined: Sep 2007
Posts: 1,091
Pennsylvania
Good Luck! I've been in several situations like this and they all seem to turn out better than I had hoped. Although there were 1 or 2 that I'd rather not remember....


"I was obliged to be industrious. Whoever is equally industrious will succeed equally well."

J.S. Bach
Re: Two months to learn Chopin's 4th Ballade [Re: debrucey] #1967238
10/01/12 09:41 AM
10/01/12 09:41 AM
Joined: Mar 2008
Posts: 204
O
Otis S Offline
Full Member
Otis S  Offline
Full Member
O

Joined: Mar 2008
Posts: 204
Good luck with your recital, Debrucey! Your YouTube recordings are terrific, and I am sure you can do an excellent job with the 4th ballade. You are shooting for a very ambitious deadline, though.


Originally Posted by debrucey
Yes I've already submitted the programme. I could change it I suppose, but I would still have to learn 12 minutes of something else. Also I need the Ballade for other things so it has to be done at some point. I'd rather not change the programme for a professional engagement though. It doesn't look very, well, professional lol. But then again neither does leaving it too late to learn the pieces :P.


My recommendation would be to continue making your best effort at learning Chopin's 4th ballade for the November recital. As a safety measure, determine the latest point (e.g. early November?) when it would still be feasible to change the program without too much negative fallout. Have a back-up piece that you already play well (perhaps another comparable work by Chopin such as another ballade, scherzo, Fantaisie in F minor, Polonaise-Fantasie, etc). in good shape in case the 4th ballade does not go as well as hoped. A few days before the deadline, make your best judgement on whether to play the 4th ballade or the other piece. You can play both pieces in front of other pianists whose views you trust to get feedback to help you make your decision.

Would it be feasible to do something like this?

Re: Two months to learn Chopin's 4th Ballade [Re: debrucey] #1967285
10/01/12 12:32 PM
10/01/12 12:32 PM
Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 2,607
Manchester, UK
debrucey Offline OP
2000 Post Club Member
debrucey  Offline OP
2000 Post Club Member

Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 2,607
Manchester, UK
Nope, I have no such piece. The recital is 50 minutes long and uses up everything I have at the moment. If I were to change it for something comparable I would be in the same situation as I would still have to learn a new piece.

Re: Two months to learn Chopin's 4th Ballade [Re: debrucey] #1967296
10/01/12 12:59 PM
10/01/12 12:59 PM
Joined: Nov 2007
Posts: 6,546
UK
Nikolas Offline
6000 Post Club Member
Nikolas  Offline
6000 Post Club Member

Joined: Nov 2007
Posts: 6,546
UK
If I may dare propose something: Why does all the pieces have to be AMAZING and MONUMENTALLY stunning, difficult and contain the WOW factor? Just got for a couple of easier works. Not everything has to be at the standard of a Chopin Ballad I think...

Re: Two months to learn Chopin's 4th Ballade [Re: debrucey] #1967345
10/01/12 02:51 PM
10/01/12 02:51 PM
Joined: Sep 2007
Posts: 1,091
Pennsylvania
C
Cheeto717 Offline
1000 Post Club Member
Cheeto717  Offline
1000 Post Club Member
C

Joined: Sep 2007
Posts: 1,091
Pennsylvania
True. A set of nocturnes, waltzes, or mazurkas would be really nice to listen to.


"I was obliged to be industrious. Whoever is equally industrious will succeed equally well."

J.S. Bach
Page 2 of 6 1 2 3 4 5 6

Moderated by  Brendan, Kreisler 

(ad)
Pianoteq
PianoTeq Bechstein
Shop our Store for Music Lovers!
PianoSupplies.com is Piano World's Online Store
Please visit our store today.
(ad)
Faust Harrison Pianos
Faust Harrison 100+ Steinway pianos
New Topics - Multiple Forums
Missing Marty...5 years on
by Retsacnal. 10/22/19 09:42 PM
"Standard" Regulation Job
by Seeker. 10/22/19 08:58 PM
Best Online Jazz Piano Courses?
by PlayitSam. 10/22/19 08:54 PM
in honor of Monica K
by Medved1. 10/22/19 08:45 PM
Sauter vs Bechstein vs Schimmel uprights
by GSeb. 10/22/19 08:04 PM
What's Hot!!
Our August Newsletter is Out!
------------------
Mason & Hamlin Piano Factory Tour!

-------------------
Posting Pictures on the Forums
-------------------
Forums RULES & HELP
-------------------
ADVERTISE on Piano World
Forum Statistics
Forums41
Topics194,681
Posts2,882,299
Members94,725
Most Online15,252
Mar 21st, 2010
Please Support Our Advertisers


Faust Harrison 100+ Steinways

Dampp Chaser Piano Life Saver

 Best of Piano Buyer

PianoTeq Bechstein
Visit our online store for gifts for music lovers


 
Help keep the forums up and running with a donation, any amount is appreciated!
Or by becoming a Subscribing member! Thank-you.
Donate   Subscribe
 
Our Piano Related Classified Ads
| Dealers | Tuners | Lessons | Movers | Restorations | Pianos For Sale | Sell Your Piano |

Advertise on Piano World
| Subscribe | Piano World | PianoSupplies.com | Advertise on Piano World |
| |Contact | Privacy | Legal | About Us | Site Map | Free Newsletter |


copyright 1997 - 2019 Piano World ® all rights reserved
No part of this site may be reproduced without prior written permission
Powered by UBB.threads™ PHP Forum Software 7.7.1