Welcome to the Piano World Piano Forums
Over 2.5 million posts about pianos, digital pianos, and all types of keyboard instruments
Join the World's Largest Community of Piano Lovers (it's free)
It's Fun to Play the Piano ... Please Pass It On!

SEARCH
Piano Forums & Piano World
What's Hot!!
Hurricane Irma & Our Piano Friends!
--------------------
Posting Pictures on the Forums
-------------------
Forums RULES & HELP
-------------------
ADVERTISE on Piano World
(ad)
Virtual Sheet Music
Download Sheet Music Instantly
Virtual Sheet Music - Classical Sheet Music Downloads
Sheet Music...
(125ad)
Piano Life Saver - Dampp Chaser
Dampp Chaser Piano Life Saver
(ad)
Piano Buyer Guide
Piano Buyer Spring 2017
(ad)
4th Finger Enigma Resolved!
Schumann's 4th Finger Enigma Resolved!
Who's Online Now
50 registered members (carolinakeys, ArtlessArt, Agent88, Adypiano, AZNpiano, casinitaly, 9 invisible), 1,696 guests, and 1 spider.
Key: Admin, Global Mod, Mod
(ad)
Estonia Pianos
Estonia Pianos
Quick Links to Useful Piano & Music Resources
Our Classified Ads
Find Piano Professionals-

*Piano Dealers - Piano Stores
*Piano Tuners
*Piano Teachers
*Piano Movers
*Piano Restorations
*Piano Manufacturers

Quick Links:
*Advertise On Piano World
*Free Piano Newsletter
*Online Piano Recitals
*Piano Recitals Index
*Piano & Music Accessories
*Live Piano Venues
*Music School Listings
* Buying a Piano
*Buying A Acoustic Piano
*Buying a Digital Piano
*Pianos for Sale
*Sell Your Piano
*How Old is My Piano?
*Directory/Site Map
*Virtual Piano
*Music Word Search
*Piano Videos
*Virtual Piano Chords & Scales
Previous Thread
Next Thread
Print Thread
#1965568 - 09/28/12 12:07 AM 4 different pianos, same work - which do you prefer?  
Joined: Jun 2009
Posts: 1,607
4evrBeginR Offline
1000 Post Club Member
4evrBeginR  Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Joined: Jun 2009
Posts: 1,607
California
http://www.cyprienkatsaris.net/en/p...2-en-fa-mineur-op-21-les-4-versions.html

A. Hamburg Steinway
B. Bösendorfer Imperial
C. Yamaha CFIIIS
D. Steingraber & Söhne

Interestingly, for me, my preferences were:
movt 1 - D
movt 2 - A
movt 3 - C

I did not choose the Imperial, my favorite piano of all times. Don't ask me why. I'm disappointed with myself. smile

What are you choices?

(ad)
Piano & Music Accessories
piano accessories music gifts tuning and moving equipment
#1965677 - 09/28/12 09:19 AM Re: 4 different pianos, same work - which do you prefer? [Re: 4evrBeginR]  
Joined: Jul 2006
Posts: 208
lluiscl Offline
Full Member
lluiscl  Offline
Full Member

Joined: Jul 2006
Posts: 208
Thanks for the link.
Recordings are different... but for me there are two groups: Steinway/Yamaha /(crystalline sound) and Bösendorfer/Steingraeber (complex sound).
My vote if for B.


#1966081 - 09/29/12 06:13 AM Re: 4 different pianos, same work - which do you prefer? [Re: 4evrBeginR]  
Joined: Feb 2011
Posts: 2,511
Withindale Offline
2000 Post Club Member
Withindale  Offline
2000 Post Club Member

Joined: Feb 2011
Posts: 2,511
Suffolk, England
Comparing pianos is one thing, ranking them is another.

The other day I briefly compared Steingraeber and Bosendorfer 7 foot pianos side by side. The characteristic sound of the Steingraeber had an immmediate appeal but the Bosendorfer left no such lasting impression.

Afterwards I realised the Bosendorfer may be more responsive to the skill of the pianist. I think that comes out in these recordings.



Ian Russell
Schiedmayer & Soehne, 1925 Model 14, 140cm
Ibach, 1905 F-IV, 235cm
#1966094 - 09/29/12 07:26 AM Re: 4 different pianos, same work - which do you prefer? [Re: 4evrBeginR]  
Joined: May 2001
Posts: 10,688
Rich Galassini Offline
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member
Rich Galassini  Offline
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member

Joined: May 2001
Posts: 10,688
Philadelphia/South Jersey
This is a potentially great thread. Thank you 4evrB.

I have just listened to all four "allegro vivace" movements. The one thing that strikes me is about how differently the pianos were treated in these recordings. For this reason it is somewhat difficult for me to judge these pianos in any truly unbiased way. Whether the differences heard are from the piano, the pianist, or from the engineering during and after the performance, I cannot tell, but I suspect all three are happening.

From the artists point of view, a pianist will approach a piece, and therefore a piano, differently when they are playing as part of a chamber ensemble (as in the quartet arrangement), as a featured part of the ensemble (as in the orchestral arrangement), and as a duo, or as a soloist.

I would really love Cyprian's input into this subject to hear him articulate his thoughts on this.

Also, from the engineers point of view - how does one mic a chamber ensemble differently then one would mic a solo performer? (This is truly a question. I've seen it done well, but I've never done it well) In final editing and processing, how are the relative levels treated? Are solo piano performances "sweetened" a bit more than a piano would be in an ensemble performance?

Anyway, after all is said and done, I preferred the Bosendorfer solo performance in this movement, followed closely by the Steingraber.





Rich Galassini
Cunningham Piano Co.
Phila, Pa.
(215) 991-0834 direct line
rich@cunninghampiano.com
Check out the Science Channel's "How Its Made" featuring our piano restoration:
http://www.cunninghampiano.com/how-its-made/
(ad ) MusicNotes.com
sheet music search
#1966102 - 09/29/12 07:46 AM Re: 4 different pianos, same work - which do you prefer? [Re: Rich Galassini]  
Joined: Feb 2011
Posts: 2,511
Withindale Offline
2000 Post Club Member
Withindale  Offline
2000 Post Club Member

Joined: Feb 2011
Posts: 2,511
Suffolk, England
Originally Posted by Rich Galassini
From the artists point of view, a pianist will approach a piece, and therefore a piano, differently when they are playing as part of a chamber ensemble (as in the quartet arrangement), as a featured part of the ensemble (as in the orchestral arrangement), and as a duo, or as a soloist.

Engineering must be a big factor when the pianist plays both parts in a duo, as in the Steingraeber recordings here.


Ian Russell
Schiedmayer & Soehne, 1925 Model 14, 140cm
Ibach, 1905 F-IV, 235cm
#1966326 - 09/29/12 03:38 PM Re: 4 different pianos, same work - which do you prefer? [Re: 4evrBeginR]  
Joined: Jun 2009
Posts: 1,607
4evrBeginR Offline
1000 Post Club Member
4evrBeginR  Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Joined: Jun 2009
Posts: 1,607
California
I think it's really great this CD even exists. I think classical recordings are too monolithic even though I have heard the same pieces recorded by two different artists on two differnt Steinway that sounded very different, and not just their style but the sound was completely different. Still two different Steinways sound more alike than a Steinway from a Boesendorfer, so this is really interesting.

By the way, I've had the chance to hear pianos A and B live, or even got to play one, but never had the chance to ever meet pianos C and D in person.

The most interesting thing is that after listen to the different versions back and forth, I start to lose track of which one I'm hearing, and I can't tell which one I like more, and I start to like them all. I think when judging how a piano sounds or should sound, so much of it is built-in prejudice. If you were given this as a blind test, you may be surprised what you choose. I gave it as a blind test to several people and they were very surprised at their choices.




#1966580 - 09/29/12 11:10 PM Re: 4 different pianos, same work - which do you prefer? [Re: 4evrBeginR]  
Joined: Aug 2011
Posts: 643
Chopinlover49 Offline
500 Post Club Member
Chopinlover49  Offline
500 Post Club Member

Joined: Aug 2011
Posts: 643
I think this is an incredible idea, demonstrating how music may have been conveyed to the public in the past in different venues. I play the two-piano versions of piano concertos myself (or at least the easiest parts of them) and only occasionally the solo piano transcriptions that are less available, such as the Grieg and Schumann. The novelty of hearing the concerto with a string quartet gave me shivers. It was like having Schubert and Chopin collaborate. The two piano version was the least satisfying, musically, because the second piano part was rather lacking in places, I felt, but as for the sound of the pianos, it was my favorite. It may be partly because the combination of two wonderful Steingraebers created an effect that none of the other pianos could match playing alone or against other kinds of instrumentation. I agree with Rich that there is no way to really compare the pianos fairly since the actual performances vary so much, the type of presentation dictating the playing to a certain extent, and the engineering, microphone placement, acoustics, and so on varying. Still, it was fascinating. As a player who spent the last six of seven years playing a Steinway, it sounded the most familiar to me (and many of my cds feature the Steinway sound, too), but I really liked the richness of the Bosendoerfer and Steingraebers. The Yamaha had phenomenal power, but was a little clearer and less complex to me. All of them sounded great, though. I guess my rough estimate, given the difficulties cited, would be D, B, A, and then C. I hope more cds like this come out. It will be on my Christmas list.


Moderated by  Ken Knapp, Piano World 

Piano Acc. & Gift Items in
Piano World's Online Store
In PianoSupplies.com ,(a division of Piano World)
our online store for piano and music gifts and accessories, Digital Piano Dolly, party goods, tuning equipment, piano moving equipment, benches, lamps Caster Cups and more.


Free Shipping* on Jansen Artist Piano Benches, Cocoweb Piano Lamps, Hidrau Hydraulic Piano Benches
(*free shipping within contiguous U.S. only)
(ad)
Pearl River
Pearl River Pianos
(ad)
Pianoteq
PianoTeq 6 Out now
(ad)
Lindeblad Piano
Lindeblad Piano Restorations and sales
ad
Pierce Piano Atlas


New Topics - Multiple Forums
A question on sheet music
by carolinakeys. 09/22/17 04:10 AM
Garritan CFX vs. Soniccouture Hammersmith
by Osho. 09/21/17 10:48 PM
Chords by Ear?
by tinman1943. 09/21/17 09:14 PM
Kawai MP11 Factory default setup parameters
by HaraldC. 09/21/17 08:36 PM
Hamburg Steinway C-227
by trandinhnamanh. 09/21/17 06:28 PM
Forum Statistics
Forums44
Topics181,971
Posts2,659,321
Members88,878
Most Online15,252
Mar 21st, 2010
(ad)
Accu-Tuner
Sanderson Accu-Tuner
Check It Out!
There's a lot more to Piano World than just the forums.
Click Here to
Explore The Rest of Piano World!!
Visit our online store for gifts for music lovers


 
Help keep the forums up and running with a donation, any amount is appreciated!
Or by becoming a Subscribing member! Thank-you.
Donate   Subscribe
 
Our Piano Related Classified Ads
| Dealers | Tuners | Lessons | Movers | Restorations | Pianos For Sale | Sell Your Piano |

Advertise on Piano World
| Subscribe | Piano World | PianoSupplies.com | Advertise on Piano World |
| |Contact | Privacy | Legal | About Us | Site Map | Free Newsletter |


copyright 1997 - 2017 Piano World ® all rights reserved
No part of this site may be reproduced without prior written permission
Powered by UBB.threads™ PHP Forum Software 7.6.0